The Mighty Ant - Posted - 12/10/2010:  00:06:36

John Hartford, via his album "Mark Twang" (and others after that) is responsible for my getting into Bluegrass music back in the late 70's.

And he is also my all time favorite banjo player. There is just something unique about the way he plays banjo that a really like.

But in the last several months I have been learning to play the banjo, and I am watching him play with more interest.

I've noticed that he "double hits" the 5th string a WHOLE lot when he plays. I really like that, and I'm started to utilize it in my playing.

I'm wondering..is this something that is unique to John? I dont seem to hear it so much in other excellant players.

Or maybe I'm I noticing it in Johns playing because I enjoy his playing so much. Is it a common lick? Maybe John just has a unique way of hitting it?

Mike

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My short term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.

Edited by - The Mighty Ant on 12/10/2010 00:09:46

banjogra - Posted - 12/10/2010:  01:47:25

yes mike he was a one off, his style was all his own, he said so at the start of his vidio (the banjo according to john hartford) he said, this is not how to play the banjo, but the way I play the banjo.
It was him singing LORENA on the tube, that made me go and buy my first banj, ( I know have four) and yes he was forever flickin the 5th
He brought the banjo to the front of stage and kept it their, except when swopping it for the fiddle.

AKUSfan2 - Posted - 12/10/2010:  05:56:07

Mike,

I was fortunate enough to have John, and Doug Dillard, give me my first few lessons on the banjo back in 1977, when they happened to be in town.

You're exactly right about John using the 5th string more often than not.
As a matter of fact, when I tried learning Doug's Tune, it was John ho show me his style of using the 5th string instead of the 3-2-1-2 roll that Doug wrote.

I still have John's tab for that part of the song and play it almost dailey.
There's something about it that just sounds great.

Regards,
Gary

RyanHerr - Posted - 12/14/2010:  06:49:10

Here's some intriguing comments that John made in his Masters of the 5-String Banjo interview:

"Q: When did you start performing solo?

A: For a long time I had bands at different radio stations, and then wound up as a disc jockey in Malden, Missouri. We just couldn’t make any money playing music, and I realized that if I was going to do anything I was going to have to do it by myself. ...

That was when I started working on a style which would be a picking style that you could sing with, very much the way you do with frailing, that wouldn’t be the closed chord backup. It would have a full sound but, at the same time would employ a thumb and two finger picks. A fingerpicking style what would utilize the elements of clawhammer and/or Scruggs picking or whatever you want to call it.

What I came up with was a kind of four-beat roll but it was applied kind of like a frail. When I would sing I would do that, and then I would take a break and just pick."

Edited by - RyanHerr on 12/14/2010 06:54:05

banjopaolo - Posted - 12/15/2010:  13:38:17

I love Hartford!
I discovered his records when I was about fourteen it the beginning of the eighties (and here in Italy it was not so easy to find them) and I started loving the banjo! Then I evolved more into jazz playing and now I play mostly tenor banjo (and violin of course, my frist instrument) but from time to time I put on Aereo Plain or Mark Twang and I feel at home..
can't say much about his picking since my five string knoledge is limited.
ciao

Edited by - banjopaolo on 12/16/2010 13:11:15

Gareth Banjoland - Posted - 12/19/2010:  03:39:53

I'm with you guys, he's a legend, I love his singing style as well. It's so relaxed and full of character.

Gareth Banjoland - Posted - 12/19/2010:  03:44:01

Oops, sorry not to address your question.

I think the 5th string double strike is an an old timey/clawhammer influence, I notice it a lot in frailing and other similar styles.

What I really learnt from John though is not to be afraid to express your own style.

wb4yal - Posted - 12/22/2010:  10:05:25

John was one of a kind, I used to watch him on Smothers Brothers and Glen Campbell's Goodtime Hour. He was so unique and it was enjoyable to watch him perform. He WAS a Master of the Banjo!

Tommy5 - Posted - 12/24/2010:  09:50:11

John has a double dvd set where he explains a lot of what he does and why called Hartford his ideas licks and music, it is a fascinating dvd even if you don't aspire to play like him, he goes over what he his thinking and he did lots of thinking about how to play the banjo and other instruments he was a real student of the banjo and music in general as well as being a great musician and songwriter.

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 01/16/2011:  09:51:04

I agree John's double DVD is brilliant I real insight to his approach to playing the banjo. He also teaches you to dance what an amazing man.

Jayme Stone - Posted - 01/17/2011:  07:11:02

i just posted a transcription of hartford's playing on "steam-powered aereo-plane" in the tablature section of my website:

jaymestone.com/lessons

enjoy!

clawforlife - Posted - 01/23/2011:  10:58:20

from what ive seen it looks like he played mostly from chord forms up and down the neck along with his own unique rolls and picking patterns. i love his deering, as it claims to get better sounding and louder as the wooden tone ring ages. i would give my right arm for one of these banjos but then i wouldnt be able to play. i love john hatfords music. my favorite is gum tree canoe. i live about 5 mintues from the tombigbee river.

mikey5string - Posted - 01/23/2011:  11:10:59

quote:

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Originally posted by Jayme Stone

i just posted a transcription of hartford's playing on "steam-powered aereo-plane" in the tablature section of my website:

jaymestone.com/lessons

enjoy!

---

NickC - Posted - 01/24/2011:  04:40:14

I only discovered John Hartford a few years ago and after hearing Aereoplane became a big fan. I'm not really experienced enough to analyse his style but I think he brought something quite new to the banjo and played with so much soul. I can highly recommend the DVD's and the Deering John Hartford banjo.

here's a little Hartford magic for a monday...

youtube.com/watch?v=N-SXk40DQzA

you get to see some great close ups of his picking.

And thanks for directing us to that tab Jamie!

Edited by - NickC on 01/24/2011 04:43:30

dontneed6strings - Posted - 02/12/2011:  11:38:57

Hey All..
John Hartford is why I am here. I've always enjoyed Bluegrass and Folk and really just enjoy music in general, I heard Tall Tall Grass off of Natural To Be Gone one night playing in the dark, and I was hooked, by the time the 3rd track was finished playing, I had seated myself in front of the speakers and was just staring at the stereo in amazement, when the people I was with found me sitting in the dark, the only thing I could do was point at the stereo and tell them "I have to make that sound." A week later I drove 90 miles one way to buy a banjo unseen off a lady on Craigslist. I am eagerly awaiting my tax return so i can purchase a new banjer, (and quit my job).
BHO has been helpful, and I'm glad that I am here. Cheers!

The Mighty Ant - Posted - 02/15/2011:  10:31:54

quote:

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A week later I drove 90 miles one way to buy a banjo unseen off a lady on Craigslist. I am eagerly awaiting my tax return so i can purchase a new banjer, (and quit my job).

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minstrelmike - Posted - 02/15/2011:  10:47:13

Playing the banjo to backup a solo artist is completely different from playing it in a band.
Kind of the same way that you can't just play lead guitar all by itself with out anything else.

When you start wanting to add in rhythm and lead, the techniques of true blue bluegrass banjo are fairly useless.
You cannot play ahead of the beat if it's just you doing everything.

And if you're doing duets and the guitar takes a lead, your backup will sound really weak unless you can fill in the full sound the guitar was doing. Hartford figured out a lot of that stuff by listening to what sounds were produced, not by deciding on a style and then using it to play songs.