stigandr5 - Posted - 02/07/2011:  07:35:08

Hi there all,

This upcoming summer I'm planning to teach at a university in Haiti. While I'm there, I'd like to teach a music class on the banjo (seeing as it is ultimately a cultural inheritance from West Africa). To make the class more interactive, I plan on teaching students how to build their own banjos as well.

I'm not a stranger to finding substitutes for the body of a banjo (wooden boxes, gas cans, etc.), but I don't know what to do about the neck. In Haiti, deforestation is a huge problem. If at all possible, I'd like to think up an alternative to wooden necks. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Nathan

jduke - Posted - 02/07/2011:  07:57:23

I enjoy building instruments from found objects, but have never thought about a substitute for wood in the necks. Again, I would look to found objects, discarded broom sticks, furniture legs etc. If you are trying to make a statement by not using any wood, many of the same products are made of different plastics, and many of the plastics can be worked in a similar manner to wood.

Good luck, sounds like a fun idea.

Jeff

Sutty70 - Posted - 02/07/2011:  08:08:56

What about some aluminium box section, should have enough strength to withstand steel strings.

rudy - Posted - 02/07/2011:  08:21:54

Hi Nathan,
Cool project!
I don't know if you have the time to pursue it, but you could make a great contibution to introducing them to the world economy by thinking about trading their special craft/music abilities or outright labor that could be used as "barter" for quality wood available in abundance in other places like the U.S.
The cost of a US hardwood such as maple would be low compared to it's pracicality for a neck. Just a thought...
Good luck with your project!

Jonnycake White - Posted - 02/07/2011:  09:07:36

Imitate nature. Fiber + glue = wood. Fiber can be animal hair, plant fibers, glass fiber, carbon fiber, etc. Glue can be gelatin (hide glue), natural resin, polyester or epoxy resin, urea, etc.

That said, it's pretty hard to imitate wood, and just as hard to find an acceptable substitute. In many cultures where wood is scarce as a building material, ceramics have been substituted (i.e. bricks, cement). Due to the extreme difficulty of eliminating flaws, ceramic is generally not feasible as a substitute for wood because while it is easily made strong in compression, it is not easily made strong in tension. A neck needs to be strong in both ways.

I'm not an expert and the above is just food for thought.

mike gregory - Posted - 02/07/2011:  09:31:59

Since so many people are rebuiding after the earthquake, I should imagine every usable scrap IS being claimed.

Can't think of anything as strong AND less expensive as scrap lumber.

kevinwholmes - Posted - 02/07/2011:  09:47:35

PVC pipe w/formica fretboard?

stigandr5 - Posted - 02/07/2011:  09:49:07

I had definitely considered the idea of plastic necks. Something tells me I won't really know what to use until I get there to see what there is.

Thanks for all the ideas! I'll be pondering them and any ideas to come.

beegee - Posted - 02/07/2011:  11:37:50

How about bamboo?

Helix - Posted - 02/07/2011:  11:48:41

I just read the best thread in a long time.

Bamboo flooring would do just the ticket. Why don't you go over there and let us know an address, I'll bet you could get someone to guard it at night to keep it out of the bonfire

But I'm sure there are a few who would donate to get you a nice box of flooring, and have it shipped to you at no cost, it would not be but a few hundred dollars,

I'm sure you could get help if you started a FACEBOOK page about said project, take photos along the way. Start an identical thread about post-earthquake construction, and show progress and students.

Don't be afraid to ask, aren't you going to need strings? Well. aSK UP. Identify the need.

Give us a proposal, state the benefit, and present your budget.

Come on man, parle vous banjou?

mike gregory - Posted - 02/07/2011:  18:23:32

fishline strings.
It's an island. They gotta know where to get fishline.

Bastertone - Posted - 02/07/2011:  19:45:25

Cardboard, fiberglass and polyester resin.

stigandr5 - Posted - 02/07/2011:  19:51:46

Helix,

Mais oui, je parle banjo!

---

I think fishing line will be the best option for strings, thanks Mike.

---

I hadn't considered flooring; that sounds promising!

---

Once again, thanks to everyone for the suggestions, and please keep them coming!

Nathan

mike gregory - Posted - 02/07/2011:  20:54:05

And while you're there in Haiti, tell them I'm sorry I didn't raise a bigger fuss about the HangOut alowing the name of their Religion to be used as a shorthand way of saying "silly beliefs not supported by facts".
banjohangout.org/topic/194037

goldtopia - Posted - 02/07/2011:  23:26:16

Or you could use leggo. Though I don't know if you get it in America.

Bill.O
motleyminstrels.co.uk
almost-here.co.uk

banjowannabe - Posted - 02/08/2011:  03:06:30

Well, this ought to get every banjo-tinkering hangout person thinking. I'm guessing that most waste is picked over thoroughly, so raw material is an issue. It looks like there are efforts to get bamboo growth going in Haiti, so that may be an option. I'm also wondering about plant fiber fabrication, since those tropical climates usually have fairly fibrous plants like hemp and jute and palmetto. Haiti used to have some decent woodworkers. I'm sitting here looking at some Haitian carvings from mahogany - about 40 years old. I wonder if any of those skills still exist.

Raf Morgan - Posted - 02/08/2011:  04:03:43

Cardboard and resin, that simple.It becomes hard as wood! Cut a few layers of cardboard and laminate them like a sandwich with resin. Let it dry. Cut the shape of the neck and finish it again with resin. It will work with nylon strings for sure, but I don´t think it will work with steel.

It´s even easier to sculpt, because you can shape all layers individually, then glue them all together.

Edited by - Raf Morgan on 02/08/2011 04:05:10

Helix - Posted - 02/08/2011:  07:01:05

Me father was the keeper of the eddystone light.
He married him a mermaid one fine night.
And out of this union there came three.
A porgy, and a porpoise and Mike Gregoreeeeeeeeeeee.

Yep, cardboard and resin, dude you could build a satellite dish/combo solar cooker.

Johnny Whitecake as usual has great ideas.

Bamboo would be the right thing to grow there, they denude right up to the border, you can see it from outer space, I looked the last time I was on google earth. Bamboo could FEED them.

Fishing line for sure, Mike.

Yopparai should be right at home here, like, Dad where's my bike? Is that a trombone?

And for the fun of it, you should throw in a little Steam Punk like a voyager sattelite and see what shakes out. Go make music.

( ))==='== ::::::: }

Edited by - Helix on 02/08/2011 07:04:00

mojo_monk - Posted - 02/08/2011:  07:52:34

Since moving back to the States in August of '09, I've had daydreams of starting a small shop in Haiti and teaching gourd banjo building to a handful of young people. The idea that the banjos could be sold as goods to visitors and missionaries is a good one indeed. If such an enterprise were to get off the ground, it would certainly be good for those involved.

Back to the issue at hand...

Depending on where you find yourself, you can easily locate someone with a Kalbas tree in his/her yard that would more than likely give you whatever is growing at the moment. Once they dry they are SUPER hard, if a bit flimsy. I offer this suggestion because most other containers would probably be in use to store things like vegetable oil, gaz blan (kerosene), or to haul water. The saying "drive it 'til the wheels fall off" applies to everything in Haiti, and like Brian said, most of what is usable these days is most certainly being used.

If you go the kalbas route, goat skins can be procured for about $.25USD, and a pack of razors to shave them costs about $1USD. Using [i.e, killing and eating] goats is great for farmers since they eat EVERYTHING they find - and they have an insatiable hankering for mango saplings and vegetable shoots. I eat lots of goat when I visit Haiti, mostly as a way to stave off deforestation

Fishing line can be found in most coastal towns, although finding a variety of guages might only be possible in Pòtoprens. Buying a few spools before you head over there might be your best bet.

I like the idea of laminating cardboard - and with all of the material aid flowing into the country, I bet you could find a source for empty, (relatively) in-tact boxes. Knowing how much you like to tinker, I bet you could even "perfect" the process here in the States beforehand. I guess the question then becomes: what type of glue/resin would work best, since I'm imagining your choices in Haiti may be limited. I'm also imagining the look on the faces of the students when you present this idea to the class...be sure to take pictures .

When I built my first gourd banjo in Haiti, the reactions were very positive and usually accompanied by smiles. There is a documented tradition of gourd banjos in Haiti (4 string - 3 long, 1 short), but it died out long ago. Homespun "guitar" building still happens all over the place, though.

Once again, I think this is a great idea and I appreciate you're sensitivity to the issue of environmental degradation when developing your plan. I'm excited to see how this whole thing pans out!

Kenbe pa lage

-Sean

P.S., thanks to Mike Gregory for nipping that "voodoo" thing in the bud. What the heck!?

Edited by - mojo_monk on 02/08/2011 07:54:51

mike gregory - Posted - 02/08/2011:  16:50:22

You don't need DIFERRENT gauges of fishline.

My cookie-tin banjos use a single strand of 30 lb for 1,2, & 5, a twisted double strand for the 3rd, and 4 twisted for the 4th.

Not that I'm a genius.
They used to sell "Music Wire" by the small spool, and people would twist up whatever thick ones they needed, out of the thin stuff on the spool.
Because, back then, mail-ordering a set of replacement strings might take weeks or months.
I just defer to the wisdom of the people who survived back in the hills and out on the frontiers.