BanjoFlyboy - Posted - 04/04/2011:  13:23:29

---

"Rules?? We don't need no stink'n rules!"

---

Edited by - BanjoFlyboy on 04/04/2011 13:24:08

Richard Dress - Posted - 04/04/2011:  13:59:53

---

No matter what, we gotta remember that we are playing in Eric's bouncehouse. This playpen is marvelously well kept, well thought out, has all the modern conveniences, and is honed and polished daily to please the majority of HO banjo pickers and lovers. This can only happen when a dedicated individual who is very savvy decides it's worthwhile and the medium remains unrestricted. We need to respect and cherish both ends of the spectrum that continues to bring us these miracles. It is a free marketplace of ideas, and nothing guarantees that it will be here next year.

It all comes down to this: not only is it right and fair that Eric is the sole decision-maker, he is the only one so far that I have noticed who has demonstrated any credible qualifications for running a successful community of banjo-pickers. If he doesn't do it, then I am afraid it won't get done quite so well.

John Estep - Posted - 04/04/2011:  15:57:38

---

WHO OPEN UP THIS CAN OF WORMS......

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 04/04/2011:  17:03:29

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange

The R&P prohibition isn't going away, sorry.

If you guys think you can define what a "political" topic is in a succint enough way that I can put it into the rules and people will actually read it, feel free to take a crack at it. If you can do it, I'll add it to the rules so you can have more clarification.

---

Okay, I'll take a quick shot at it:

A political topic or post is an expression of party or partisan politics, or reference or allusion to party or partisan politics as they relate to the exercise or seeking of power or influence over the affairs of state and governmental policy.

---

Edited by - Sultans of Claw on 04/04/2011 17:05:10

DonCherry - Posted - 04/04/2011:  17:32:11

---

My grandpa told me when I was little,"If you want to keep your friends,never discus religion or politics,they are to passionate a subject."

jbanjoist - Posted - 04/04/2011:  17:41:02

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Don Borchelt

JackJack wrote: "How about the "Political & Religious Debaters Hangout"?"

I'm all for it, as long as the P&RDHO members aren't allowed in the Hangout Chatroom.

---

Make it a union too and cha-ching

Richard Dress - Posted - 04/04/2011:  21:20:23

---

Sultan: Okay, I'll take a quick shot at it: A political topic or post is an expression of party or partisan politics, or reference or allusion to party or partisan politics as they relate to the exercise or seeking of power or influence over the affairs of state and governmental policy.
--------------------
Sorry, that won't do. You define politics in terms of politics. That is circular with content value zero. And even when you rewrite it in more acceptable terms and resubmit it, your definition will be too narrow and once more it will be rejected. I can't predict what your third try will be but I am sure it will also fall short.

Instead, we ought to invite a third party, whom neither of us can influence, and let him decide all these cases (or perhaps delegate the task to designated subordinates): Eric. I trust him to do all the necessary legwork that these issues merit and give an impartial ruling when it is called for.

thehurricane - Posted - 04/04/2011:  21:34:00

---

I think I'll just pick my banjo and let you all figure this out

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 04/05/2011:  05:33:27

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Dress

Sultan: Okay, I'll take a quick shot at it: A political topic or post is an expression of party or partisan politics, or reference or allusion to party or partisan politics as they relate to the exercise or seeking of power or influence over the affairs of state and governmental policy.
--------------------
Sorry, that won't do. You define politics in terms of politics. That is circular with content value zero. And even when you rewrite it in more acceptable terms and resubmit it, your definition will be too narrow and once more it will be rejected. I can't predict what your third try will be but I am sure it will also fall short.

---

I thought I was talking to Eric, Richard. I didn't realize you had taken over.

Richard Dress - Posted - 04/05/2011:  06:38:18

---

I couldn't help myself. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. The first rule of definitions is to avoid circularity and you jumped in with both feet.

I hope you noticed that I ruled on your next two attempts at definition in advance, since I knew you would try to duck the issues I raised. And don't say I am being unfair, because this is high school stuff.

Ronnie - Posted - 04/05/2011:  11:00:44

---

Let's pick!!

Don Borchelt - Posted - 04/05/2011:  11:44:15

---

Congratulations, Richard, you have reached a new low.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/05/2011:  12:29:55

---

Okay gang, keep to the issues; knock off the personal comments.  Thanks.

Ronnie - Posted - 04/05/2011:  19:59:34

---

Are we having fun yet, Bill??  LOL

minstrelmike - Posted - 04/05/2011:  20:42:01

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange



I'll say it again: The R&P prohibition isn't going away, sorry.



Been there, done that. It gets even the well-meaning folks riled up, and I don't like the atmosphere it produces. We keep those topics off the forum to make easy for us all to stay friendly, basically. And I'm not going to be changing that.

---

When you say "No religion or politics," I understand the words 'No" and "or" but when requests for prayer are allowed, I am unclear on what the word 'religion" means. If prayer isn't a religious topic, then I don't know what is.

I can type slower if that would help but frankly, we're right back at the beginning again: uneven enforcement of ill-defined terms.

Ronnie - Posted - 04/05/2011:  21:19:10

---

My goodness, Mike!  We'll certainly be praying for you!!   

---

Edited by - Ronnie on 04/05/2011 21:20:04

kipperr - Posted - 04/06/2011:  06:38:12

---

How about those Red Sox!

kipperr - Posted - 04/06/2011:  13:39:05

---

And now you get a glimpse into why religious topics are not allowed on the hangout.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/06/2011:  13:56:24

---

Well, no glimpses now; I hid the initial post and the reply that quoted it.  There are internet fora for discussions of and about religion.  Banjo Hangout is not one of them.  Note that prayer requests, which have always been permitted, are not such discussions.

the-fish - Posted - 04/07/2011:  12:04:11

---

Hi Eddie

jbanjoist - Posted - 04/07/2011:  15:52:55

---

When someone asks for prayers, usually for someone very sick, the topic is not religion but the person who is sick.

Per the rules also it is not argumentative.

Who will argue about someone hoping a concerned fellow hangout member of the same faith will take a moment to offer a prayer for their well being?

 

 

 

 

minstrelmike - Posted - 04/07/2011:  16:24:21

---

So Bill hid my post because prayer requests are 'not contentious' apparently.

Sheesh.

All I did was point out certain facts about religion. Those facts aren't contended by most folks but they get hidden here on BHO.

---

Edited by - minstrelmike on 04/07/2011 16:27:39

Pig_Eyed_Jackson - Posted - 04/07/2011:  17:06:20

---

“I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description, "hard-core pornography" and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.....” Justice Potter Stewart

Ronnie - Posted - 04/07/2011:  19:12:28

---

It is none of anyone else's business as to whatever Diety or Dieties  one choses to pray to, or if they choose to pray or just convey good wishes.   On an international site with people from so many cultures and religious backgrounds it isn't an issue.at all! (I can still read the hidden posts)

---

Edited by - Ronnie on 04/07/2011 19:34:52

kipperr - Posted - 04/07/2011:  20:10:54

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by minstrelmike

All I did was point out certain facts about religion. Those facts aren't contended by most folks but they get hidden here on BHO.

---

From what I remember about your "facts," I would disagree that they aren't contented by "most folks."

I would argue that you are wrong. But religion, being based on faith, would mean that we would be arguing apples and oranges, and such an argument would do little good for either side. It would probably degenerate into something that would help neither of us, or those reading. Which is one reason why I assume that religious discussion is banned here on the HO. And why most members have no problem with that fact.

steve j. - Posted - 04/08/2011:  06:50:57

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kipperr

quote:

---

Originally posted by minstrelmike

All I did was point out certain facts about religion. Those facts aren't contended by most folks but they get hidden here on BHO.

---

From what I remember about your "facts," I would disagree that they aren't contented by "most folks."

I would argue that you are wrong. But religion, being based on faith, would mean that we would be arguing apples and oranges, and such an argument would do little good for either side. It would probably degenerate into something that would help neither of us, or those reading. Which is one reason why I assume that religious discussion is banned here on the HO. And why most members have no problem with that fact.

---

  Well said,  I have always had good comm. with Kipper , and Minsterel Mike, I regret getting involved in this whole thing where I may have lost 2 banjo pals.

Religion, and politics, are just too dang hot to handle.  My apologies to any I offended. I get my hackles up too easy on my beliefs,  I shouldnt, because I am not  a great comminucator. and tend to be overzealous

kipperr - Posted - 04/08/2011:  08:16:04

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve j.

  Well said,  I have always had good comm. with Kipper , and Minsterel Mike, I regret getting involved in this whole thing where I may have lost 2 banjo pals.

Religion, and politics, are just too dang hot to handle.  My apologies to any I offended. I get my hackles up too easy on my beliefs,  I shouldnt, because I am not  a great comminucator. and tend to be overzealous

---

 

Back atcha Steve.

Well said.

bluegrass 22 - Posted - 04/09/2011:  20:54:03

---

every one is entited  to thier own opp--  but if BILL MONROE could reed  this self richces  bulls*** he would roll over in his grave.  i havent herd the words banjo,bluegrass,orfun on this whole thaead.   remember it is sunday tomarrow.... this reminds me off that book that hitler wrote  lol  bluegrass 22

minstrelmike - Posted - 04/10/2011:  13:09:16

---

Prayer requests are not contentious, thank God.

Coonskin - Posted - 04/10/2011:  14:09:48

---

Much of the energy of the human is spent on either making other people do what they want,  or stopping them from doing what they don't want them to do.

...the rest of it is spent complaining about what they are or aren't doing.  :))))))))))))))

minstrelmike - Posted - 04/12/2011:  10:55:27

---

If praying the Fred Phelps way is contentious prayer that gets posts deleted, then is asking for prayers so that 'minister' sees the error of his ways allowed?

I am not trying to be contentious; I am trying to get clarification of the rules.

Apparently, certain prayers are allowed and certain ones aren't.

---

Edited by - minstrelmike on 04/12/2011 10:56:04

schlange - Posted - 04/12/2011:  11:08:28

---

Apparently, certain prayers are allowed and certain ones aren't.

Sure, if they were contentious prayer requests, they wouldn't be allowed. But I'm not sure I've ever seen that.

Seems to me this is a non-issue to pretty much everyone else except you, Mike. Why not move on to more important things? Is it really that tough to stay within the guidelines we've set?

Richard Dress - Posted - 04/12/2011:  11:25:37

---

Mike has a sense of humor.  But in Eric's defense, I don't see it written anywhere that he must or even ought to clarify his rules.

Micki - Posted - 04/14/2011:  20:40:43

---

I like the off topic section and I think the mods do a great job.  I don't visit the other side much.  The reason being, I spent and pulled my time learning one way , from John Lawless and after so many years of it and 8 to 10 hours of practice on most days, I find it relaxing to the mind to talk with others about something else.  I live and breathed banjo for so many years, and yeah I enjoyed numerous workshops and such Acutab had, but it is not going to rule my life now after so many years  of it.  I have sat in in a room 8 to 10 hrs. for years, nothing but me and my instrument and racked my brain till it got old.   There is a life out there to live, and others will take the place of us who have been down the road, but their ways and methods may not be the same as we know.  Doesn't mean anyone is wrong or right.  Change always has, and always will be a part of living.  For Many years, I never watched television, listened to the news or even knew what other parts of the world was like.  Banjo-24 hrs. a day.  Now I want to enjoy being alive and life , whatever is left of it.  I have seen numerous people come into my house, lived to pick and loved the music, and nothing else mattered, but you know what-they are not alive anymore, but the music and  learning process continues on, and rightfully so. Music makes the world go round. 

But I for one want to do other stuff as well and not let it rule my life completely.  Micki

---

Edited by - Micki on 04/14/2011 20:41:57

bobbybanjo - Posted - 04/15/2011:  07:13:45

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Dress

Mike has a sense of humor.  But in Eric's defense, I don't see it written anywhere that he must or even ought to clarify his rules.

---

Doesn't matter if it's written anywhere tht he has to clarify his rules, it is still a good idea!

steve j. - Posted - 04/15/2011:  07:32:46

---

 

minstrelmike - Posted - 04/15/2011:  09:43:44

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by schlange

Apparently, certain prayers are allowed and certain ones aren't.

Sure, if they were contentious prayer requests, they wouldn't be allowed. But I'm not sure I've ever seen that.

Seems to me this is a non-issue to pretty much everyone else except you, Mike. Why not move on to more important things? Is it really that tough to stay within the guidelines we've set?

---

Every example of contentious prayers I post gets deleted. Look up Fred Phelps if you want examples.

It's no harder to stay inside the guidelines than it is to define the guidelines Eric.

And what are the more important things than religion that we should move on to? Banjo only? Then drop Off topic.

I find prayer requests personally offensive for religious reasons I am not allowed to discuss here. I don't need Christians rubbing their religion in my face any more than anyone else wants religion being rubbed in their faces. There are other places for prayer requests on the web and those places will fit the desired spirituality as much as going to a regular church in meatspace will because it is always a single denomination, not a conglomerate of conflicting ideas.

jazzylynne - Posted - 04/15/2011:  09:54:18

---

When someone ask for a prayer for a person, they aren't reciting one they are simply asking for people that do that sort of thing to do it for them.

It's a pretty simple concept  that involves no mention of a God or higher deity, pray to whomever or whatever the heck you want.

YOU are the one making it religious.

minstrelmike - Posted - 04/15/2011:  10:02:34

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jazzylynne

YOU are the one making it religious.

---

Actually, I have run into at least two other people on this planet who regard prayer as a RELIGIOUS thing. (sarcasm).

And you're the one who was offended by and deleted my copy of the highly offensive and politically-oriented prayer request from Rev Fred Phelps.

Certain religions find prayer requests inherently offensive. If you belong to one that doesn't, so what?

Ronnie - Posted - 04/15/2011:  10:27:24

---

Some people believe in prayer, some people don't. "so what:" 

gottasmilealot - Posted - 04/15/2011:  12:34:48

---

What a bunch of whining.  It is what it is.  I don't see a great need to tell the person running the site how to run it.  If it's really that much of a problem, don't participate. Go elsewhere. Start your own "Banjo's 'n Bibles" website if you feel a need to infuse religion into a banjo web site. 

Segments of society have their own rules, like it or not, that's just the way it is.  Life's too short.  Everybody recognize that whatever your viewpoint is, there are some who disagree and live their life differently.  Pick a happy tune.   Be nice.

jazzylynne - Posted - 04/15/2011:  13:20:16

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by minstrelmike

And you're the one who was offended by and deleted my copy of the highly offensive and politically-oriented prayer request from Rev Fred Phelps.

 

---

 

What makes you think you have any idea what I think.  I am a moderator I moderate this site based on the rules not on my beliefs or feelings.

I hid your post because it was against the rules.  You post things that you know will be hidden just to make a point that you have made over and over.  

You now have heard from a several people including Eric and myself that if you are so offended by this particular rule, leave.

jbanjoist - Posted - 04/15/2011:  17:33:54

---

Who the heck is trying to infuse religion into this site?

Someone or someone's friend or loved one is sick enough to respectfully ask for al prayer or thought on their behalf from people that are willing to do so and that is infusing religion?

I didn't realize compassion was such an issue.

bobbybanjo - Posted - 04/15/2011:  18:02:23

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jazzylynne

quote:

---

Originally posted by minstrelmike

And you're the one who was offended by and deleted my copy of the highly offensive and politically-oriented prayer request from Rev Fred Phelps.

 

---

 

What makes you think you have any idea what I think.  I am a moderator I moderate this site based on the rules not on my beliefs or feelings.

---

Rules require interpretation when they are not clearly defined so often it is the task of the moderators to interpret the rules.  It is not uncommon for people to interpret rules based on their own beliefs or feelings; some people do it more than others. 

Some people do it all the time.

 

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 04/17/2011:  14:43:28

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bobbybanjo

quote:

---

Originally posted by jazzylynne

quote:

---

Originally posted by minstrelmike

And you're the one who was offended by and deleted my copy of the highly offensive and politically-oriented prayer request from Rev Fred Phelps.

 

---

 

What makes you think you have any idea what I think.  I am a moderator I moderate this site based on the rules not on my beliefs or feelings.

---

Rules require interpretation when they are not clearly defined so often it is the task of the moderators to interpret the rules.  It is not uncommon for people to interpret rules based on their own beliefs or feelings; some people do it more than others. 

Some people do it all the time.

 

Cmon Bobby boy get an education, bet you didn't make it out of the ninth grade.

 

---

 

plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 04/17/2011:  15:47:38

---

"Rules are not necessarily sacred, principals are"  - Franklin D Roosevelt

 

 

 

 

bluemule_77 - Posted - 04/17/2011:  20:18:09

---

Principals?  Or principles?

plunknplinkntwang - Posted - 04/18/2011:  01:53:35

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluemule_77

Principals?  Or principles?

---

@Bluemule : well spotted!  That is a spelling mistake that does unintentionally alter the meaning.

It should have read principles.  Some very coarse interpretations would include 'ideals of morality',or 'a standard of acceptable behaviour'. 

The alternative spelling puts a completely different meaning to the phrase & potentially could have been a quote or belief of Roosevelt's European adversary :)

Back to topic - I believe that we could all post commentary that would incite negative feelings amongst the majority of readers.  I also believe that no written rule set could completely or adequately describe & define what incidents will cross the line.  Instead we all have to apply our own personal gauge & when as individuals we get it wrong, the moderators step in to prevent potential insult. 

It's never happened to me (yet), if it did, seeking clarification from the moderator may be a better recourse than asking for the written rules to be expanded. 

best regards

Chris

 

Ronnie - Posted - 04/18/2011:  12:00:23

---

My high school principal carried a big razor strop, his word was law and even sacred!