liverlipsyyz - Posted - 05/26/2011:  11:53:14

does anyone have any idea if charlie poole favored any particular tuning?  

stevel - Posted - 05/26/2011:  11:54:45

gCGBD i think.....

could be wrong tho

=)

vrteach - Posted - 05/26/2011:  12:11:54

quote:

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Originally posted by stevel

gCGBD i think.....

could be wrong tho

=)

 

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Yes, I think that is the case. But I also could be wrong.

gCGBD, or the equivalent, tends to be the most common tuning in 19th and early-to-mid 20th century instruction books (I think).

Bruce4501 - Posted - 05/26/2011:  12:18:37

Normally I am in the Scruggs camp of pickers, but saw your post and ran across this video of Charlie's great nephew who has studied his playing.

youtube.com/watch?v=YyADGjml7tw 

Go to min 3:04 and he confirms "C" tuning.



Pretty neat video for those of us who like Charlie Poole!

Bruce

stevel - Posted - 05/26/2011:  12:30:06

the relative tuning is confirmed:

oldtimeherald.org/archive/back...oole.html

gailg64 - Posted - 05/26/2011:  12:55:01

Yes, "Basic" tuning for every key. Chords & run the basses with the right thumb.

quote:

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Originally posted by stevel

gCGBD i think.....

could be wrong tho

=)

 

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majikgator - Posted - 05/27/2011:  04:53:04

This used; i am told,  to be the standard banjo tuning prior to bluegrass although it is still used in BG pretty often as well. i believe Gus Cannon and many more "popular" banjo players of the day used it.

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 05/27/2011:  06:09:59

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce4501

Normally I am in the Scruggs camp of pickers, but saw your post and ran across this video of Charlie's great nephew who has studied his playing.

youtube.com/watch?v=YyADGjml7tw 

Go to min 3:04 and he confirms "C" tuning.



Pretty neat video for those of us who like Charlie Poole!

Bruce

 

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Delightful video! Thanks for the link.

Helix - Posted - 05/27/2011:  06:31:00

I rediscovered Charlie Poole two years ago at Xmas with the Loudon Wainwright tribute CDs.

Thank you very much, this is MOST important for young people to know where this came from.

liverlipsyyz - Posted - 05/27/2011:  06:35:57

quote:

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Originally posted by Helix

I rediscovered Charlie Poole two years ago at Xmas with the Loudon Wainwright tribute CDs.

Thank you very much, this is MOST important for young people to know where this came from.

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yes - that loudon record is absolutely fantastic!

Pete Peterson - Posted - 05/27/2011:  06:49:09

Gailg has made a good point-- this was the tuning that Charlie used not just for playing in C and D (with capo)  but also for playing in G and A. Despite what I have been doing for 40+ years, the way to get closer to Charlie's sound in G is to stay in C tuning!

gailg64 - Posted - 05/27/2011:  13:31:38

Hey Pete & everyone!

Yes, that's what I've discovered works best.  For playing in the key of G out of Drop C, I've noticed Kinney Rorrer has a system that works great & gives you access to 4 or 5 keys with only minor adjustments, adjustments you can make between tunes.

So what happens is this: You are in Drop C/Basic/Charlie Poole tuning, you capo up 2 & you do NOT retune the 5th string--leaving it at G. Then you play the G chord in the "C" shape on the 7th fret. That way the standard C shape chord where the capo is becomes the V chord (D). The capo makes it a shorter trip down to the V chord and back to the I again for bass runs -- an important Charlie Poole "move." For the run up to a 4 chord, you simply walk up the bass string to the C position on the 12th fret. That's a long hike & if there's not time to get up there, you just walk to the C chord next to the G chord ont he 7th fret. This strategy for playing in G also comes in handy if you're playing in a band & the fiddler goes into D or A. You are still in C tuning & capo in place on the 2nd & either tune up the 5th or spike it up 2.  In other words, with the capo on the 2nd fret, you're good for 3 keys. This is good for a performance where there's not a lot of time to mess around. If a C tune comes up, simply remove the 5th from its spike or retune it and slip off the capo. So with a minor adjustment , you're good for G, D, A, and C. Oh, and also F. 

​ I think staying in one tuning  was common among mid-20th century PIedmont "vernacular" banjo pickers who played with fiddles & guitars in groups. You don't really need to do the capo thing--that's just a convenience if you're in a situation where quick changes are necessary between C, G and A & D.

Some old time pickers around here also used G tuning as their home base & made chords up & down the neck for different keys, adjusting the 5th as necessary ( or else avoiding it if caught in a bind.) The old guys who preferred the G tuning as a home base were usually "roll style" more melodic 2 finger players as opposed to "flat chord-ers". A. C. Overton was a 2 finger roll style player who lived near Raleigh. He used G a lot but also would use the Charlie Poole tuning for tunes like "Railroad" and "Going to the Army" that go back & forth between the C & G chords.

The "flat chord" style players pretty much all used the drop C/Basic/Charlie Poole tuning. To my ear it sounds like that's what Wade Ward did when playing fingerstyle with Charlie Higgins or Norman Edmonds.

What I'll sometimes do if a G tune comes up  that goes with "roll style" is tune to standard G. If there's not enough time to retune the bass string, that's ok--leave it in Drop C and fret the bass string on the

2nd. Gail

quote:

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Originally posted by Pete Peterson

Gailg has made a good point-- this was the tuning that Charlie used not just for playing in C and D (with capo)  but also for playing in G and A. Despite what I have been doing for 40+ years, the way to get closer to Charlie's sound in G is to stay in C tuning!

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Robxx - Posted - 05/28/2011:  00:23:35

Why are there now three threads talking about similar things within three days ?  I mentioned on one of the other threads about Charlie Poole and single or drop C tuning, and the Kinney Rorrer video.  Anyway it's interesting and the video is really good, But I'll now have to keep dodging about between the threads to see what new little gems have been added.

Robxx - Posted - 05/28/2011:  02:48:41

Now you've got me watching this video all over again.  I learnt that song last year the 1st one that is, and then forgot how to do it.  It's easy to follow how Kinney plays though, I'll soon have it right.

Thank you for reminding me of this song. I have most of the Charlie Poole recordings on CD, but it's much easier to watch and learn.

Rob

bcob - Posted - 05/28/2011:  16:08:42

I can't imagine what it would be like to own that banjo.

Bruce4501 - Posted - 05/28/2011:  19:12:10

Everyone,

Sorry for double posting the video to this thread when there was another one going on with similar content.  The title caught my eye as I am a Poole fan too!

Bruce

derwood400 - Posted - 05/28/2011:  19:20:36

Well, I didn't see the other threads, but I'm glad I found this one.  I hadn't seen that video before.  That is great.  I would love to be able to play Poole's style like that, but I just can't seem to get it down.  I seem to have a really hard time with that C tuning for some reason.  Anyhow, thanks for the link to the video.

Emiel - Posted - 05/29/2011:  04:47:36

quote:

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Originally posted by bcob

I can't imagine what it would be like to own that banjo.

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Great of course, but Charlie Poole later switched to a Gibson RB-4 (resonator, archtop) banjo, probably because it was louder.

gailg64 - Posted - 05/29/2011:  13:21:48

Charlie never hung onto a banjo for long, so like pieces of the true cross, banjos said to have belonged to him are plentiful. The Orpheum is the one that's best known because of certain record promo shots, & he played several Gibsons, 20s models with archtop tone rings. Whatever he could beg or borrow (I won't say steal, though it sounds like he came mighty close to that!) As far as I know, the Gibson RB-4 "Reid Rakes" (a late 20s archtop with an interesting story) is still in the hands of a Poole-Rorrer family banjo player who doesn't take it out much any more.

G

quote:

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Originally posted by Emiel

quote:

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Originally posted by bcob

I can't imagine what it would be like to own that banjo.

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Great of course, but Charlie Poole later switched to a Gibson RB-4 (resonator, archtop) banjo, probably because it was louder.

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Robxx - Posted - 05/29/2011:  13:25:10

Does anyone know what the banjo in the video is ? I did read somewhere the make, but I can't find where I read it ,and I can't remember what it was.

Emiel - Posted - 05/29/2011:  13:40:52

quote:

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Originally posted by Robxx

Does anyone know what the banjo in the video is ? I did read somewhere the make, but I can't find where I read it ,and I can't remember what it was.

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That's the Orpheum...

Robxx - Posted - 05/29/2011:  13:48:54

Thank you Emiel, I had been racking my brain trying to remember.

Rob

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/29/2011:  18:34:32

I believe he did pawn a borrowed banjo to buy booze once. It is said to have been a Gibson and that the owner went up to NYC to get his banjo back. Charlie had borrowed it for a recording session in NYC and drank up the bands pay every night. That was (according to the story) what broke up the group. Rorer wouldn't have anything to do with him.

Charlie Poole was a prodigious drinker and a rip roaring drunk. His final drunk occurred when some Hollywood studio wired him money to go to California. It proved to be more money than Charlie could handle at one time and after 13 weeks of binging he went home to die.

Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 05/29/2011 18:37:02

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/29/2011:  18:50:19

Derwood,

Watch that video closely, and you can see that Kinney is playing a simple three finger Boom Chick sort of thing - his thumb is on the beat (reverse of clawhammer) He does a lot of TIMI sort of stuff and some pinches too. The most important thing is the bass runs - you can see them as Kinney climbs up that long interval on the 4th string.

Whenever we do Charlie Poole songs I stick with my clawhammer style but do all the bass runs, and otherwise mostly chord the tunes. I used to do them in 2 finger thumb lead style but can't do that no more.

derwood400 - Posted - 05/29/2011:  19:41:49

Hi Tony, yeah I do a lot of Poole stuff too but I just play it clawhammer style as well. I have an article out of banjo newsletter (I think it was by Pete Peterson) that give a bit of a lesson on playing Poole's style. What I always noticed was the minimal use of the 5th string which seems alot of the time he only used for the pinches. I think the hardest part for me is the use of that tuning. For some reason I have a hard time getting used to it and I wish I could because that low bass would be really handy for alot of the stuff I like to play. I guess I just have to spend a lot more time working on it.

bcob - Posted - 05/29/2011:  23:59:43

quote:

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Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

Charlie Poole was a prodigious drinker and a rip roaring drunk. His final drunk occurred when some Hollywood studio wired him money to go to California. It proved to be more money than Charlie could handle at one time and after 13 weeks of binging he went home to die.

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Definitely one of the greatest tragedies in American music.  The only way it could have been worse is if he had been 27 years old and a guitarist.

Emiel - Posted - 05/30/2011:  04:48:27

quote:

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Originally posted by derwood400



Hi Tony, yeah I do a lot of Poole stuff too but I just play it clawhammer style as well. I have an article out of banjo newsletter (I think it was by Pete Peterson) that give a bit of a lesson on playing Poole's style. 

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A few posts up a link to that was given, but even better than a printed article, also with sound... :

oldtimeherald.org/archive/back...oole.html