liverlipsyyz - Posted - 05/27/2011:  06:37:02

i'm looking to purchase one.  red or blue?

John Gribble - Posted - 05/27/2011:  06:50:32

They are both the same  "Third Edition." Aside from a little introductory note from Seeger in later printings, there hasn't been any real revision of the book since 1962. Earlier printings had the red cover. 

The second edition had a yellow cover. I've never seen a first. 

Edited by - John Gribble on 05/27/2011 06:54:05

Fathand - Posted - 05/27/2011:  07:33:30

My copy had the blue but my dog chewed it

scruss - Posted - 05/27/2011:  08:13:19

Most of the ones I've seen are green.

Jim D - Posted - 05/27/2011:  08:17:14

I believe the "1st edition" was mimeographed sheets without a cover. 

R Buck - Posted - 05/27/2011:  08:37:00

I had one of the 1962 versions but it and my Earl Scruggs book from 40 years ago disappeared.  I replaced the Seeger book and it is the same as the old one with more notes from Pete on the inside covers.

stevel - Posted - 05/27/2011:  08:53:35

mine is red... can't remember the year it was printed tho... but 3rd edition sounds right....

Jim Yates - Posted - 05/27/2011:  09:49:42

Essentially the same material, so buy whatever's cheapest unless you have a favourite colour.

**Funny, my spell check tells me that both "favourite" and "colour" are spelled incorrectly.  Can I get a Canadian spell-check?

Paul R - Posted - 05/27/2011:  09:51:31

Had the red, lost it. Now have the blue, with the notes Robert mentions, saying why it's not being revised. You can't get the red one new; are you looking for an old copy? Good luck.

Nancy2555 - Posted - 05/27/2011:  13:21:17

I have the Red, Its 3rd Edition Revised and was printed in 1962.  There are 72 pages. 

Way back when, there was a long playing record  from Folkway Records you could buy for $5.95. It included  "the important examples in the book played two way: very slowly and clearly and up to tempo.

The audio is still available:

folkways.si.edu/albumdetails.a...emid=1420

devoall - Posted - 05/27/2011:  15:18:06

I'm not sure if it matters to you or not, but I have both the red and the blue since I'm a collector, and I have noticed that the older red edition is printed much nicer than the newer blue edition.  The pictures in the red edition are very clear and dark and the newer blue versions seem to almost have been crappy xeroxed -type versions of the pictures.  the newer editions are lower quality, but still just as informative.

Jim Yates - Posted - 05/27/2011:  15:23:35

Happy Traum's Homespun Tapes has available a DVD to go along with Pete's book: homespuntapes.com/CatalogueRet...ctType=27

Jim_R - Posted - 05/27/2011:  18:11:57

I have the green one too. Never seen a red or blue.

Edited by - Jim_R on 05/27/2011 18:16:15

five12gal - Posted - 05/27/2011:  19:07:04

hey bob, i have the scruggs book. burnt around the edges from my trailer fire in '79 but still good. i'll bring it to clifftop for you if you want it.

i also have a vinyl lp that was a companion to the seeger book.

chip arnold - Posted - 05/28/2011:  12:23:11

whoops! hey bob, i posted from amy's computer! it's me who has the scruggs book and seeger vinyl. 

Don Borchelt - Posted - 05/28/2011:  13:21:56

I was gonna say, gee Amy, you're a lot older than you look! 

Edited by - Don Borchelt on 05/28/2011 13:22:56

Don Borchelt - Posted - 05/28/2011:  13:27:41

Okay, I'll be the one to say it.  There was a rumor years ago that the original red color was a humorous allusion to "the little red book."  I'm not at all sure the rumor is true; for one thing, for the allusion to really work, the print should have been yellow.  Anyway, there was ANOTHER rumor that Music Sales, the company that distributed the book, got tired of hearing the first rumor, and requested that the color be changed.  Of course, that's probably not true either.

Edited by - Don Borchelt on 05/28/2011 13:28:18

intune - Posted - 05/28/2011:  13:35:52

Went to a flea market recently.  Saw a chip board banjo case, so went to take a look, expecting to see a plastic open-back.  There was no banjo in the case, but there was a red '63 Pete Seeger book and a first edition Earl's book inside.  $10 for the case, both books, a Pete Wernick videotape, a set of picks, and a banjo pitch pipe.  Now I'll have something to fall back on when my battery goes dead. 

EggerRidgeBoy - Posted - 05/28/2011:  13:56:49

I bought the Folkways record at a used record store a few years ago, when I started learning the banjo.  Until I got it home I didn't even realize that it had the 1962 (red cover) edition book inside.  If you have a choice, I'd go with the red cover, just because it's maybe a bit more "historic" - but as others have said, the content doesn't vary much.

Steve Donnelly - Posted - 05/28/2011:  13:59:47

 In 1956, someone gave me a copy of the Seeger book which was pale yellow.

I lent in out - it's gone.

Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 05/28/2011:  17:46:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by Don Borchelt

Okay, I'll be the one to say it.  There was a rumor years ago that the original red color was a humorous allusion to "the little red book."  I'm not at all sure the rumor is true; for one thing, for the allusion to really work, the print should have been yellow.  Anyway, there was ANOTHER rumor that Music Sales, the company that distributed the book, got tired of hearing the first rumor, and requested that the color be changed.  Of course, that's probably not true either.

---

That's a bit of a coincidence. I was looking through my RED covered Seeger book two days ago, and I had the thought, "I bet Pete made the cover red as a shot at the McCarthyites."

Mutha

stringbeaner - Posted - 05/29/2011:  12:34:48

I got a 2nd hand YELLOW Pete Seegar book in 1956 which had about 1/2 the material the newer ones have.  Still have it., too.

minstrelmike - Posted - 05/29/2011:  13:20:04

I thought I had run into versions in 4 colors: red, blue, green and yellow.

They all contain similar excellent material for learning.

Jon A. - Posted - 05/30/2011:  08:40:50

In the preface to the second edition, it specifically states that the material is not copyrighted and "Permission is hereby  given to reprint, whenever needed."  I am surprised that someone hasn't just posted it online.

Jon

GerryH - Posted - 05/30/2011:  11:21:17

I have a very old red one. This is what helped me get started  playing the banjo.

GerryH

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 05/30/2011:  11:59:36

I think that the publisher probably doesn't consider the copyright to be null and void just because the author said so. Essentially, like it or not Pete made an agreement when the book was first published professionally and he can't really break that. I'm not sure that he has any control over the book at all at this point. I certainly wouldn't want to give Pete any trouble over the point by putting the book on the web. Even after Pete dies however,  I would check with his survivors about it before doing anything. My feeling is that it would be their decision.

I wouldn't even think about asking Pete because he would probably say "sure" without giving the decades of legal headaches his estate would endure a single thought.

That said

____________________THE TUNES are not copyrighted

____________They are American Folk Songs and belong to all of us

Bowling Green - straight out of the book has been in my repertoire for 50 years

brokenstrings - Posted - 05/30/2011:  20:17:51

I've never seen the yellow or the blue. Pete said he refused to copyright the book, so why are you discussing copyright?

vintagewells - Posted - 05/31/2011:  13:15:30

I respect Pete too much to put it on the web.

A friend of mine has the yellow book, and I have the blue.  Actually I have two blues. I thought one was lost for years, so I got another, and found the first - of course.

TonyS - Posted - 09/03/2011:  10:51:00

I have the blue, to newbie to know of the others :)

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 09/03/2011:  23:11:54

I had the Red, but gave it away. But a couple times a year I want to check something in it and always think I need to buy a new one. There was a page that said you could rent a 16mm movie with examples from the book, but I never knew any one with a projector to watch it on. That's probably what Homespun put on the video.
Paul

gorf - Posted - 09/04/2011:  09:13:45

I have the Blue, it's a fun book to read, I bet if Pete was a young man right now would be some what a opensource type person, putting stuff on the web for the masses.  Someday I will scan it so that it will live forever with all the other out of print banjo books that I would share.(c)(r)2011

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 09/04/2011:  10:36:31

It is not out of print and, although Pete would not mind, I think you will find that the current publisher takes a dim view of such things. I'm not saying don't do it, but don't do it expecting there will not be any trouble.

BrianBanjos - Posted - 09/04/2011:  12:35:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by rendesvous1840

I had the Red, but gave it away. But a couple times a year I want to check something in it and always think I need to buy a new one. There was a page that said you could rent a 16mm movie with examples from the book, but I never knew any one with a projector to watch it on. That's probably what Homespun put on the video.
Paul

---

Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 09/04/2011:  15:23:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

It is not out of print and, although Pete would not mind, I think you will find that the current publisher takes a dim view of such things. I'm not saying don't do it, but don't do it expecting there will not be any trouble.t my copy sas

---

No offense intended OWC

I don't know who the current Publisher is, but my copy says "Published by the Author",

So if the Author doesn't care and the Publisher doesn't care, I feel I'm OK to copy and redistribute this book.

I think Pete would appreciate "puttin' it to the man", unless he's haulin' down a ton on the sale of this book.

If he objects, perhaps he could chime in on this subject.

Mutha

Click on image to enlarge

Pete Seeger Inside cover

gorf - Posted - 09/05/2011:  11:24:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

It is not out of print and, although Pete would not mind, I think you will find that the current publisher takes a dim view of such things. I'm not saying don't do it, but don't do it expecting there will not be any trouble.

---

On Page 2 of my copy it says "The first edition said "Copyright 1948".  This we fear, was a falsehood.  The necessary four bucks were never shelled out.  Furthermore, upon reflection, and with the good example of J. Frank Dobie of Texas, it is not copyright in 1954.  Permission is hereby given to reprint, whenever needed.

Good day sir, You lose, you get nothing, I said good day. - Willy Wonka.

rendesvous1840 - Posted - 09/05/2011:  15:07:39

The current issue is not sold by Pete, but by Music Sales Corp. There may be a copyright issue that didn't exist in older versions. Music Sales has an add for the book in the classifieds at the back of BNL, with a phone number for ordering the book. Tread lightly, the ice may break under your feet.
Paul

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 09/05/2011:  15:24:23

With Music Sales - tread very lightly indeed. The ice definitely will break, leaving you in really cold water full of Litigators - top predators of the music world. Those critters will bite you in three and toss the remaining pieces around just for fun.

No matter what Pete Says, he has written a new introduction for the current edition, meaning he has signed on to the current copyright. Do you really want to have him named the the lawsuit too?  He is in his 90s and I'm sure he gets something for every copy sold. The book is cheap enough in printed form - at least let the "liberation" of his book rest until he and his wife Toshi have slipped this mortal coil, and can't be served by a Hudson River barge full of corporate litigators. The younger generations can always say they don't know a thing about it.

kingfisher500 - Posted - 09/06/2011:  07:08:58

I have the red one, Third Edition Revised. No date on the cover. On page 3 it reads "Preface to third edition, 1961"

Interestingly, a search for this book by name or ISBN (found on Amazon.com), using copyright.com/ does not result in a hit.

John Gribble - Posted - 09/06/2011:  08:23:00

Under old US laws, if there was no copyright notice, there was no copyright. More recent laws recognize copyright protection even if there is no notice. It also recognizes copyright on unpublished work, something which wasn't automatically true before. 

However, in the Seeger book, the author both relinquished any copyright claim and wrote "Permission is hereby given to reprint, whenever needed." Now unless Music Sales has slipped in some sort of copyright claim of its own (I don't have a recent printing of the book, so I don't know), the book is clearly in the Public Domain. 

Except.

There is copyright-protected material in the book. There are copyright notices on several songs, often along with the phrase, "Used by permission." So apparently Pete had permission from the copyright holders (usually the music publisher) to reprint or otherwise use copyrighted material. He may have paid a royalty fee for the use of that material. But that material is probably still under copyright protection and he didn't/doesn't have the right to give others permission to use it without the copyright holder's permission.  So you have permission to copy Pete's work in the book. But not Woody Guthrie's. Or Earl Robinson and Alfred Hayes's. Or Cousin Emmy's. Or Earl Scruggs's, etc, etc, etc.

Ain't law fun!! 

gorf - Posted - 09/11/2011:  18:17:58

Free Download How to play the 5 string Banjo by: Pete Seeger

media.smithsonianfolkways.org/...08303.pdf

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 09/11/2011:  19:45:06

The cover is the same Redback I bought around 1959, but there is not nearly as much inside as my book had - It might be an early "mimeograph" copy. While I'm not certain, I think my Redback contents are pretty much identical to the recent "Blueback" that I bought a couple years ago. There are now some hand written notes by Pete on the inside covers.

While there is no copyright info on the book, Pete himself recommends purchasing through Homespun Tapes (Happy and Artie Traum's  Instructional Videos Company). They are not "The Man" by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm certain Pete And Toshi get their royalties on a regular basis. The book is distributed by Music Sales Corp - and they really ARE  "The Man". I would not want them after my scalp.

So I stick by my original statement. Please leave the piracy to others until Pete and Toshi are not around to get hurt financially. At $16.95 it is a major bargain. You know Pete would be named in any lawsuit where the defense is "Pete, said we could." He doesn't need that sort of grief at his age. You also know that despite what is claimed about that Earl dude, most of use would not be playing banjo at all if not for Pete.

Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 09/11/2011 19:50:48

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 09/11/2011:  20:37:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by gorf

Free Download How to play the 5 string Banjo by: Pete Seeger

media.smithsonianfolkways.org/...08303.pdf

 

 

---

This is not the book. This is the booklet that came with the record - the liner notes. They are excerpts from the book.

gorf - Posted - 09/13/2011:  16:17:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marc Nerenberg

quote:

---

Originally posted by gorf

Free Download How to play the 5 string Banjo by: Pete Seeger

media.smithsonianfolkways.org/...08303.pdf

 

Yes I know and it's free to download gives you what you need to Pete Seeger a banjo..

 

---

This is not the book. This is the booklet that came with the record - the liner notes. They are excerpts from the book.

---

gorf - Posted - 09/13/2011:  16:19:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldwoodchuckb

The cover is the same Redback I bought around 1959, but there is not nearly as much inside as my book had - It might be an early "mimeograph" copy. While I'm not certain, I think my Redback contents are pretty much identical to the recent "Blueback" that I bought a couple years ago. There are now some hand written notes by Pete on the inside covers.

While there is no copyright info on the book, Pete himself recommends purchasing through Homespun Tapes (Happy and Artie Traum's  Instructional Videos Company). They are not "The Man" by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm certain Pete And Toshi get their royalties on a regular basis. The book is distributed by Music Sales Corp - and they really ARE  "The Man". I would not want them after my scalp.

So I stick by my original statement. Please leave the piracy to others until Pete and Toshi are not around to get hurt financially. At $16.95 it is a major bargain. You know Pete would be named in any lawsuit where the defense is "Pete, said we could." He doesn't need that sort of grief at his age. You also know that despite what is claimed about that Earl dude, most of use would not be playing banjo at all if not for Pete.

---

Agreed I have not looked back from buying the book.  I bought the book and the Pete Seeger Dvd from Homespun, it's really great stuff.  I even downloaded your book, it's also great stuff.

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 09/13/2011:  20:03:54

I agree with Ye Ol' Woodchuck that you shouldn't steal the book ... (even if it isn't copyrighted) ... you should buy it. It's a really worthwhile book to own, and probably more responsible for the fact that many of us still play the banjo than any single other teaching source. For a long time it was really the ONLY book out there - and the scope and depth of this thin book is nothing short of amazing.

Of course I do have a good deal of bias in favour of Pete's book, in that, not only did I myself learn from it, but the first banjo I ever attempted to play, when I was about 5 years old, was Pete's. Being a friend of my parents, he was at our house, having coffee in the kitchen, while his banjo in a corner of the living room exuded an utterly irresistible attractive force upon me. Of course I shouldn't have touched it, but It was worth being chastised by my parents for it. Many years later I got to return the favour, when Pete was called upon to perform one song in the absence of his own banjo, and he borrowed mine (a Pete Seeger model). He played "This Land Is Your Land".

ps. The blue covered edition available now is identical to the old red covered third edition, out of which a whole generation of banjo players learned - it just has the added introduction in which Pete talks about the changes he would make if he were to revise it again (which he won't do).

Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 09/13/2011 20:21:24

cb56 - Posted - 09/15/2011:  06:27:48

I just bought a used copy with the green cover. Old library copy. Will it be missing alot of the material?

Marc Nerenberg - Posted - 09/15/2011:  11:23:33

I think the green and blue copies are the same ... and the same as the red one ... all of which is to say that you shouldn't be missing anything.

The original edition was mimeographed. The second (expanded) edition was the yellow covered one. The third (revised and expanded) edition is the definitive one with the red cover.

The blue and green covered ones are just reprints of the red covered one, with an added little introduction printed inside the cover.

So, as far as I can tell, there have been no substantive additions or deletions since 1961.

Edited by - Marc Nerenberg on 09/15/2011 11:24:24