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Jon A. - Posted - 05/28/2011: 08:40:21
So, I have a Ode model 33 grade 1, and on the 12th fret there is a fairly large tack or spike for use as a capo. It seems to me that this must have been factory installed. I have seen similar ones, in the same location, on several other Ode/Muse long necks listed for sale. Does any one know how these were installed, they are pretty heavy duty?
Edited by - Jon A. on 05/28/2011 08:43:06
stanger - Posted - 05/28/2011: 10:20:14
I have never seen an early Ode that had a factory spiked neck. Spikes weren't used much at all during the 60's- a few banjos had them, but the spikes were a novelty back then. They gradually came into wide usage in the 70's and early 80's, but back then, sliding 5th capos were much more preferred.
Ode made a sliding 5th string capo that worked extremely well on their banjos, and they are still widely seen. It was a very simple design- the flat metal slider bar had bumps on the bottom, with just a simple bent-over metal tab to hold the string. The tab was depressed onto the string by the bump. They were designed to fit around a non-geared 5th tuning peg, and had to be filed to fit around a geared peg. The bumps were laid out to the long Ode scale, so the capos didn't work well on other brands except for Vegas and other banjos with a 27" scale.
My guess is a former owner spiked this one long before the use of HO gauge railroad spikes became the de-facto standard. Early on, small screws, brass tacks and brads, steel & brass, were used. Your spike looks like a small screw that had it's head cut of ground off after it was set.
regards,
stanger
pastorharry - Posted - 05/28/2011: 11:59:30
But the question really is, "How does it work?"
Jon A. - Posted - 05/28/2011: 13:48:22
It works fine, but it corresponds to a capo at the 4th fret, so it doesn't get use much. It doesn't get in the way either.
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 05/28/2011: 15:54:48
That flat-top brass spike (like a nailhead) looks ORIGINAL to the banjo,and
factory installed. I have a couple of them in mine, and I've probably seen 15-20
of them. (At least in photos.) If I remember correctly, Chuck even refers to them
as "nails".
They work just fine. But do get in the way, if you like to 'fret' the 5th string.
One can be seen at the 12th fret (open) in the cover photo of 1st ODE brochure
(1961) for the "Model 21" banjos:
Be careful if you want to remove them... IF they were 'homemade", they probably
used the instructions in Seeger's book -- and they used a small roundhead woodscrew
and filed the the top flat. (That's what I did on MY first banjo! And I've seen others...)
I'll check with Chuck -- and see what they used, and how they were installed, back
then.
Best-
Ed Britt
PS -- What's yer serial number, Jon?
Jon A. - Posted - 05/28/2011: 16:28:57
Ed, the serial number is 607.
Jon
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 05/29/2011: 14:12:32
Hi Jon --
Thanks for the serial number.
I sent an email to Chuck Ogsbury, about the 5th 'spikes'.
Here's his brief, and simple reply:
_____________________________________________________________
"Ed,
Ode used brass wood screws for the 5th string capo. Drill a small hole by eye,
screw in a wood screw, file off the top.
To remove, take pliers and unscrew refilling the hole. The screws were placed
where most players at the time wanted them"
_____________________________________________________________
It's GOOD to know that they are actually screws -- BEFORE you start to PRY
them out!
It's my feeling that, at almost 50 years old, the early ODEs really should be
treated as historic artifacts -- and preserved in original form as much as possible.
Pete Seeger mentions in the 3rd Edition (1962) of his book that "...a number of
people have experimented with making a '5th string capo'. They are not manu-
factured yet..."
So that little brass screw is actually a significant 'indicator' of the time period,
when it was made. Pittman, ODE, and Vega came out with their sliding capos
within a year, or so... (But ODE kept putting in the little brass screws -- if someone
preferred it.)
Best-
Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 05/29/2011 14:13:59
Jon A. - Posted - 05/29/2011: 15:09:48
Ed, I was thinking along the same lines when I posted my question. The banjo is in pretty original, but well used condition. I haven't been playing banjo very long, but the difference between this banjo and my first banjo a Gold Tone CC100 is quite remarkable. I feel pretty lucky to have this banjo because there just aren't that many of them.
Jon
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 05/29/2011: 18:27:29
Hi Jon --
I realized that I have #607 in my database. Are you the one who bought it
off eBay, back in Aug 2010?
Every generation of ODE is 'distinctive' in it own way. And yes, they are
rare -- less than 2500 Boulder-made ODEs were produced. (With about
another 600 Boulder-made "Baldwin" models produced, before the
Boulder shop was closed -- in mid-'68.)
At one point, or another, I've owned an example of each major type of
ODE. And my buddy, Don Borchelt, regularly plays a 1964 die-cast
Model 32 / Grade 2 with rosewood neck, and aluminum-wall resonator:
banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...bumid=279 The early Series 20 ODEs -- especially the first two runs of longnecks --
were VERY quirky. The craftsmanship and aesthetics could have been
better... But they still have a naive charm about them. And they were
the best new banjo for-the-buck when orginally made. (They did not
have neck rods. But IF the neck has managed to stayed straight, after
50 years -- they'll still play great.
The intro of the Series 30 -- with the 52-hole archtop rim marked the birth
of the 'great' ODEs. (Yours is a good example!) Those things still have
some quirks and naivete to them -- but every one seemed to be better
than the one before it. They started paying more attention to quality and
aesthetics.They have an adjustable neck-rod, better tuners, and they sound
and play great! (Chuck Ogsbury still thinks the 52-hole archtop is the best-
sounding ODE aluminum rim.)
The Series 40 die-cast rims brought-in the truly professional-quality ODEs.
They were the best banjos made at the time.The high-grade models had
inlay, carving, and engraving that couldn't be touched by the major makers,
The ODE wood-rims developed in 1964-65 were some of the finest banjos
made, since the late-'30s. The top-of-the-line ODE Style E and F were
without equal at the time:
banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...umid=1836
That journey, from garage-built naivete -- to collector-grade showpieces, was
accomplished in just 5 years. (Late-1960 to mid-1965.)
Best-
Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 05/29/2011 18:30:13
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 05/29/2011: 20:01:37
Too late to add this as an edit to my previous post...
I've been TRYING to link to a few videos of Don Borchelt -- picking his aluminum-rim
'64 ODE M42/G2.
Unfortunately, it certainly ISN'T very obvious how to do that -- since all I come with,
when I try to copy the link, is the cryptic: javascript:; (Big whoop!)
Silly me... I thought the idea of Banjo Hangout was to become a better BANJO PLAYER!
THIS should NOT be this difficult!!!
Finally! After 45 minutes of f-ing around... I managed to cobble-together a "work-around"
by going directly to YouTube. What an absolute waste of time and effort!
(Pardon my frustration.. But I've only been using computers for 35 years. Maybe we
should go back to batch-processing -- with punch-cards!)
Now... Back to our regularly scheduled program:
Don Borchelt -- picking his aluminum-rim '64 ODE M42/G2.
Coleman's March:
Twin Sisters:
Seneca Square Dance:
Santa Anna's Retreat:
Best-
Ed Britt
Jon A. - Posted - 05/29/2011: 20:29:02
Ed, first thanks for all the information, and yes I did buy it last August. The dowel rod had to be reset into the neck, but it is really in pretty good condition.
Jon
mikehalloran - Posted - 05/29/2011: 21:11:24
Why the 12th fret? Simple: You could tune the 5th string to A or even Bb easily. Slip the string under the screw at the 12th fret and tune up to C, C# or even D.
On my regular necked Vega, I have a spike at the 10th fret and always tuned the string to where I needed it. Some of us old guys tuned the 5th to A when in the key of D, B when playing in E and C for F. The spike was installed at the 10th when I got it and I never added another - had I installed the single spike, it would have gone in at the 12th fret.
My long necks had sliding capos (or holes for one) when I bought them. This begs the question: When I bought my PS-5, it had ODE tuners and an ODE tailpiece; the holes for the sliding capo were spaced longer than the Pitmann/Shubb/Golden Gate - is it likely the holes were for an ODE capo? When Rick Shubb made my custom-length replacement, he told me that the regular long Shubb was exactly the length of the Pitmann/Vega capo. As I have mentioned before, Shubb will do a custom length at no additional charge.
The reason I liked sliding capos on my long necks was so that I could capo the 5th way up while capoing the other 4 down to get sounds not possible on regular banjo.
Edited by - mikehalloran on 05/29/2011 21:20:12
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 05/30/2011: 08:45:24
Hi Mike-
The ODE sliding capo was... ahem... 'based' on the original 'saw-tooth" Pittman. Chuck
used scallops instead of the zigzag. The early ODE was also designed to extend past
the friction 5th peg -- so you'll see a hole in the side of the neck, ABOVE the 5th peg.
Going past the 5th peg made it structurally sound -- but once the geared Kroll 5th came
out, they were obsolete. People modified the ODE ones by grinding-away the bar -- where
it interfered with the Kroll. (But that weakened it significantly.)
Some just cut-off the 'extension', drilled a new hole, and used a washer as a spacer -- to
mount the new top-end BELOW the Kroll, at the start of the 5th bump.
Pittman supposedly worked with Vega to develop their sliding capo -- with the spring-wire.
(I'm not positive that's true... Perhaps Vega just paid him royalties, and modified it themselves.)
You are correct that the ODE 5th capo was longer than the late-Pittman/Vega.
I'm not sure if the early Pittman used the same hole spacing as the late one. (Never had
an early-Pttman in my hands.) Shubb probably would know that information -- so I'd
believe his statement.
Best-
Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 05/30/2011 08:47:42
mikehalloran - Posted - 05/30/2011: 10:21:38
Thanks Ed. This makes sense. Although my avatar still shows the ODE tailpiece on my PS-5, I helped a BHO member restore his banjo by selling it to him. I still have the stainless steel ODE tuners if anyone is interested - some '60s PAT. PEND. Rotomatics grace the Vega now (the outlines and holes were there when I removed the ODE tuners to look). All that was left of the sliding capo were the two holes.
I have a NOS Vega/Pittman in its original box but it's the straight, not scalloped. I'll have to find the box and post a picture. I bought it as much for the box as the capo which I have never installed.
