Rich Weill - Posted - 02/23/2012:  20:06:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjoy

Yeah the use of the brain in the process is a realization I had years ago. I realized that at some point in growing as a musician, that thinking about music was definitely getting in my way. Then I had this "ah-ha" moment about learning music vs playing music, and her ya go.

I think the biggest stumbling block for many musicians is never getting past their mind. So, quite literally, you have to be in your mind to learn music. Then, you have to be out of your mind to play it. Sounds funny, but I've found truth in this.

---

I think I know exactly what you mean.  It's that old "Coffee Cup Syndrome": distract your conscious mind with something unrelated to the banjo, so your subconscious can take control.  [Of course, in order for your subconscious to serve any useful purpose, you will have had to implant a sufficient variety of good banjo habits in there: rolls played with good rhythm and timing, chords fretted cleanly, melody notes located by ear, licks, etc.  Implanting habits in the subconscious requires lots of repetition.  I guess it's what they mean by "practice until you can do it in your sleep."]  

Rich Weill - Posted - 02/23/2012:  20:41:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by caloscalzo

It's good to remember in all of this discussion about TAB or no TAB, that some people are visual learners--TAB helps them see what they need to learn.  Some people are auditory learners--they are able to learn by what they hear.  Chances are that you will learn to play the banjo by leaning onto one of the learning approaches.  Neither is bad.  Just different.  

---

No, neither is bad.  But they're not equally good, either.

How can you play with others if you can't process what you hear?  How can you tell if you're in rhythm?  In tune?  Bringing out the melody effectively?

Essential musical information and feedback comes to you through your ears and nowhere else.  Anyone who is truly unable "to learn by what they hear" has severe limitations.

But, for most people, it's not that they're able to learn visually, and unable to learn aurally.  They just prefer to learn visually.  It's what they're used to.  For most of their lives they learned from books.

It may be uncomfortable at first, but making the extra effort to put the books away and open your ears will pay great dividends in the long run.

Richard Dress - Posted - 02/23/2012:  21:15:38

Rich makes a really good point.

minstrelmike - Posted - 02/24/2012:  11:28:56

Rich makes good points but he implies that seeing a chord formed in front of you is the same as hearing.

That's why I tend to try to pry people off the Murphy Method. It is _not_ an Ear method, it is a sight method.

If it were an ear method, you could teach it in the dark.

If the folks who learned from it are actually hearing what they do, great (many do), 

but it is not more guaranteed than folks who play from tabs and imo, hearing _yourself_ is less guaranteed than with folks who do tab without playing along with records. Those folks are only listening to themselves, not to some memory of what it sounded like.

(Until you run into memorizers who aren't listening to the sounds they actually produce, you won't believe me. But that is the hardest habit of all to break--listening to yourself in the moment instead of hearing what is right in your head and using the fingers at the same time to do whatever.).

Richard Dress - Posted - 02/24/2012:  11:57:47

I agree with MM.  Breaking the habit of not listening to my own banjo noise was very hard to do.  I blocked it out on purpose and that became a bad habit.

Somebody said that most people hear with their eyes.  That was true for me.

Joe Larson - Posted - 02/24/2012:  12:57:21

One thing that stands out for me from this discussion is that banjo can't be taught; it must be learned. By that I mean that whatever method is used: TAB, Murphy Method, listening to recorded music. it's the student that does the work. That work is actually the process of taking a complex series of mechanical movements and somehow turning it into music. Learning the movements can be accomplished by any of the above mentioned methods depending on the individual's particular learning processes. Making the music is an entirely different operation and can take years, even decades (10,000 hours?). In this sense, any method must be broken away from in order for the music to flow freely.

If you're thinking  in terms of T-I-M, P.O., H.O., SLIDE etc it doesn't matter where you learned it or what method was used.

j

We're on this earth to fart around, don't let anybody tell you different - Kurt Vonnegut