kaybone - Posted - 07/12/2011:  06:50:42

Hi, I've been playing BG now for almost 10 months. Having fun and progressing nicely.

But I must admit I love the OT Clawhammer sound also, and especially the lower keys that you

can play in with a Long Neck (Thank's Pete Seeger). So I can envision myself in the future

attempting to play both styles - BG and OT

Sooo, I was wondering when the Long Neck is it's normal tuning, what is the fifth string tuned as?

And if a capos are used are the fifth string spikes placed in the same fret postions relative to the fifth string (ie- B=7,8,9,10 7 LN=10,11,12,13)?

Thanks ahead of time!

Bagie0 - Posted - 07/12/2011:  07:06:04

I have a Deering Boston LN which I occasionally play a bit of BG on. In open tuning without a capo, it's tuned EBEG#E. When you capo at Fret 3 and capo the 5th string at Fret 11, you get standard G tuning. So if you want spikes, you need one at 11 for standard G, then I would suggest 13,14,15 & 16. (These are equivalent to 7,8,9,10 on a normal banjo). Hope this helps.

vega long neck - Posted - 07/12/2011:  07:10:16

The tuning for a long neck is usually such that with a capo at the 3rd fret its the same scale length as the banjo you're used to. Hence, the 4th string would be a B. The oddity is, as you guessed, the 5th string. I keep mine tuned to E so that I have to capo it to it's 3rd fret to get a G. I gues you'd then have spikes in the same relative position as on your regular scale banjo. I have a sliding capo on mine so I don't have a clue where the prefered frets would be.

You're right, the long neck gives you some wonderful sounds when played open in A or E.

Scott

kaybone - Posted - 07/12/2011:  09:14:25

Thanks much everyone! That was exactly the info I was looking for.

So do y'all's arms get tired playing waay out there?

When I looked at pictures of Pete Seeger playing from long ago, he always seems to be holding it 

almost vertical. I always thought that was because he was so tall or because he wanted to crowd around a mike

with all of those folksie voices he sang with. Maybe it's because his arm got tired-haha

Happy pickin' to y'all!

Jon A. - Posted - 07/12/2011:  18:47:14

For me the reach isn't really the difference, it's the fret spacing.  The frets are farther apart, so you have to stretch your fingers out.  But when you play with a capo in a standard tuning it seems a lot easier.

Jon

howseth - Posted - 07/12/2011:  20:26:12

If you like the lower banjo sound (like I do) - you could still use a common regular scale length banjo: 26 1/4" (or 27" - the Vega scale on my Tuba-phone) and string it with heavier strings - then tune down.

Edited by - howseth on 07/12/2011 20:31:37

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/12/2011:  20:42:29

Technically this is what I do. I keep a 25.7 inch scale banjo tuned down to "F" with the long strings at CFAC and a 26.2 inch scale banjo tuned down to "E" BEG#B

I generally keep the short "5th' string tuned no higher than "A" - the A found on a normally tuned banjo at the 7th fret 1st string.

I can tune this string down to D if I need to - but generally it goes no lower than E. I usually try to have the tonic (Do) or dominant (sol) note of a key on the 5th string but do sometimes use the 3rd (mi) note.

I've also used the 6th (La) - for example the note E in a G tuning  - eDGBD.

I do enjoy using the 7th of some keys on the 5th also, but it has to be a key where the 7th is a whole tone below the tonic. An example of this would be to use a G note in an A modal tuning - gEADE. This last might be the reason why I can never seem to play the key of G out of that tuning, so be forewarned that there might be a big drawback there.

As to the neck length of a longneck - I never could handle  them but Michael Cooney and Hedy West could and I'm taller than either of them.

My luthier friend Roy Smith recently made a "true" Pete Seeger style long neck. he only went 2 frets longer than normal and started with a 25.5 inch scale. I have real trouble with a standard length banjo because of injuries to my left hand, but I admit his "short" long neck was rather comfy compared to the loooong heavy 3 extra frets on a 27 inch scale - which amounts to a 32 inch scale.

Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 07/12/2011 20:49:34

farmer bob - Posted - 07/13/2011:  09:14:03

I am in the process of building my first long neck. I'm basing the scale on 25.3" Martin guitar. That makes the neck an additional 4.75" longer. I have the option of making the scale as short as I like,  say 23" but I fear Ill loose the traditional tone you get from a true long scale banjo... Bob.

howseth - Posted - 07/13/2011:  09:56:31

"My luthier friend Roy Smith recently made a "true" Pete Seeger style long neck. he only went 2 frets longer than normal and started with a 25.5 inch scale"



Now, that sounds interesting for low end! What scale length did it end up? (Why "true" Pete Seeger - Is that how he did his first long neck?)

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 07/13/2011:  14:41:17

Pete's original long neck was done surgically. The story is one of those that every teller has slightly different but all agree it was two frets longer than a standard banjo and was made by grafting together 2 banjos and shifting the bottom frets. Pete's book has a "how 2" article complete with drawings.

Vega started making a three fret longer than standard banjo in the early 50s - it had a name like "Elite" or something similar. Eric Darling ordered one custom with the 5th string peg moved from the 5th (8th) fret to the 6th (9th). His solo album with that Looooong neck dividing the cover fooled a lot of us into believing his banjo was actually 4 frets longer than normal - but it was  just the 3 - not that many people were used to seeing Long Necks at all then. For all I know Darling might have ordered it that way as a sort of visual joke. The cover is really striking since the banjo neck came out almost full size (on a 12 inch LP - a cd re-issue would not be as impressive). From corner to corner I remember it as being all neck and peghead - no pot. Memory may not be accurate but ask any folkie of the era and they probably remember the cover the same as I.

Vega eventually decided they would like to have Pete's name in their catalog. They sent him a long neck (3 frets longer than standard) and he quickly approved it. The banjo itself never carried his name on the peghead. I think the "police tape" they put inside might have mentioned Seeger. I think that was about 1956 but it could have been later. I know his name was in the 1959 Vega catalog that I still had among my papers until we had a fire in the 1970s. Pete has owned that banjo ever since and has a second one that is not quite identical - I know nothing about that one. A few years ago he apparently left the banjo on top of his car when packing up from a gig. The guy who found it recognized it instantaneously and returned it to Pete.

Pete was never paid any money for the use of his name - which I doubt he minded all that much - although he could have used the money. Later he and the NLCR boys asked Vega if they could provide Roscoe Holcomb with a better banjo than the Kay he owned. Vega sent him a basic tubaphone of the era - and Roscoe used that banjo on Seeger's "Rainbow Quest" tv program that same year. I would say the relationship was good for Pete and I know from a friend who worked at Vega that the "Pete Seeger Model" kept them out of bankruptcy for several years. Eventually when the Longneck craze ended they went under, but Pete singlehandedly kept them going for a while.

TonyS - Posted - 07/13/2011:  16:12:15

...AND... we have a Long Neck group here on BHO so please join up and join in!!

wbheilmann - Posted - 07/13/2011:  16:40:35

I tune my 5th string to E because I play in the lower keys (E/A, F/Bb, etc.) a LOT in order to accompany singers. Then it's just a matter of putting my suspender capo in the appropriate position for the 5th string. So if I'm playing in G, my 5th string capo is on the 3rd fret for that string (i.e., on the 11th fret from the nut). Of course, the end result is that I never have to re-tune the 5th string in these cases.

Yeah, I'm short, and my arms do sometimes get tired playing in the lower keys. I also have small hands, so it can be challenging to span those lower, widely-spaced frets. Pete Seeger has long, skinny arms...he was apparently born to play a longneck banjo! That lucky rascal....

WB

Cryo - Posted - 07/14/2011:  00:02:10

I love my long neck for it's verstility. Great tone.
I tune it open E for singing. Capo the third (and retune the 5th) when needed for some tunes.

My long neck is an open back Goldtone. Does anyone have a long neck with resonator?

kaybone - Posted - 07/14/2011:  06:13:02

All very interesting info! Thanks much everyone! I became intrigued by the long neck

after seeing a PBS documentary on Pete Seeger.  I was amazed at how much he was involved in.

For a long time I always thought of him as just that guy that got mad at Dylan for going electric at Newport,

and all along he was obviously much much more.

So Cryo how do you like your Goldtone longneck? Which model is it? That's probably one I would get since I like my BG-250F very much.

Also what is a tubaphone and how does it differ from my regular BG tone ring?

Thanks ahead y'all.

Edited by - kaybone on 07/14/2011 06:15:31

Cryo - Posted - 08/10/2011:  03:20:27

Sorry, did not get a chance to reply earlier. I really am having a great time with my Goldtone open back long neck.
Fantastic banjo. I get compliments on its tone.
I blinged up the truss rod cover trying to make it unique. I wanted to be able to easily identify it in a crowd. Turns out that I have not seen many long necks out there when I go to workshops or jam sessions.
Anyway, let us know if you get one.

Jim Yates - Posted - 08/10/2011:  07:02:16

The long neck that Karen Dalton played always looked extra long to me.  Maybe it's because Karen was a small woman.  I've only seen two photos of her playing the long neck.  Does anyone know about this banjo?

There is a photo of Karen holding an Ode resonator regular length banjo, but it looks like an Ode promo shot.  I don't think she played it regularly.

Edited by - Jim Yates on 08/10/2011 07:07:07

kaybone - Posted - 08/10/2011:  07:23:05

So Cryo, which Gold Tone Long neck do you have? I'm trying to decide between

the OT-800LN with the Tubaphone ring or the WL-250LN with the White Lady ring. I do like the extra "plunkiness" sound

of the WL-250LN, but am wondering if I will get the same kind of "plunkiness" with the OT-800LN

but with a bit more sustain because of the tubaphone ring.  I already own a BG-250F, so I will continue

to play all my BG style one that. But, I would love to learn some OT Clawhammer on the long neck as well.

A friend I saw last night at the Newfound Road show suggested I look at Wildwood Banjos, however, I am sure

they are currently out of my price league.

kaybone - Posted - 08/10/2011:  07:23:49

Oh Also, how can I type single space in this forum. I seem to be stuck in double space type - thnks

Cryo - Posted - 08/21/2011:  09:06:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by kaybone

So Cryo, which Gold Tone Long neck do you have? I'm trying to decide between

the OT-800LN with the Tubaphone ring or the WL-250LN with the White Lady ring. I do like the extra "plunkiness" sound

of the WL-250LN, but am wondering if I will get the same kind of "plunkiness" with the OT-800LN

but with a bit more sustain because of the tubaphone ring.  I already own a BG-250F, so I will continue

to play all my BG style one that. But, I would love to learn some OT Clawhammer on the long neck as well.

A friend I saw last night at the Newfound Road show suggested I look at Wildwood Banjos, however, I am sure

they are currently out of my price league.

---

Kaybone,

I have not had a chance to compare the two long necks.  However, I have played some of the banjos that have tubaphone rings at the local music shop, and I like to tone on my WL better.

You can see pictures of my long neck on my homepage.  I've gotten some nice feedback on how nice my long neck sounds.

Regarding your other question about spacing, I am not sure.  There are tools in the bar above your message entry when you type, I think you can use those to adjust, but I haven't really played with those.

kaybone - Posted - 08/22/2011:  05:35:11

Have you had any issues playing the clawhammer style due to the fact the long necks don't have the scooped out neck?

kaybone - Posted - 08/22/2011:  05:35:19

Have you had any issues playing the clawhammer style due to the fact the long necks don't have the scooped out neck?

chip arnold - Posted - 08/22/2011:  08:06:03

kabone, fwiw, playing over the neck was never even close to a universal thing with clawhammerers and the frailing scoop itself is a recent thing. :-)

Helix - Posted - 08/22/2011:  15:24:46

I use E on the 5th string when the capo is off, otherwise the spikes are placed relative to the capo on the 3rd fret just like a shortneck. 

I use spikes @ 7,8,9,10,12,14, that way the root doesn't always have to be the 5th string, other notes emerge.

I use X, Y and Z playing positions.   X at the bridge, Y up by where the neck joins the rim, and Z above the 19th fret where a frailing scoop would be.

I don't use a frailing scoop, I just frail there, never had a problem, I like the different voices

I play Scruggs, clawhammer, frailing and up-picking interchangeably, mostly in the same song.

Gold Tone sells a longneck flathead with a resonator, that particular model led me on a search that ended up with a Trademark in 2007.

Longnecks rule, the only American instrument with 2 octaves in one scale.

(  ))===='==== ::}

.

Cryo - Posted - 08/23/2011:  17:47:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by kaybone

Have you had any issues playing the clawhammer style due to the fact the long necks don't have the scooped out neck?

---

No problem with clawhammer (I do play close to the neck/rim when I frail), although for the Gold Tone long neck, the frailing scoop is an option - see the Gold Tone website.