beegee - Posted - 09/29/2011:  19:21:23

A friend brought me his 1925 hole-skirt ball-bearing  style 3 about 6 months ago to set it up for him. At some point someone had installed a poorly-fited flathead conversion ring. The head had been cranked down so tight that it tore the flange bead from the rim at several places around the circumference. It has some gaps in both the horizontal and vertical planes. I emailed Chris Cioffi and Mark Hickler for their opinions. I am not sure how the attack the problem at this point. i was informed today that the owner died of cancer a couple of weeks ago, so I need to consult with the family to see if they wish to proceed with the repair. I wondered why the owner had not called me for a progress(or lack of progress) report, but he was a laid-back guy who had a Fender Leo to play that I had set-up for him when he brought the BB. This banjo has a nice Frank Neat neck and I'm sure if I am allowed to proceed with repairs, it will make a great banjo. I may try to buy it, but I have no idea if the family wants to or is allowed to sell until the estate is settled.

Anyway, I'd like to encourage anyone who has an original old banjo, to seek professional advice before attempting any kind of conversion or modification. This oversize ring looks homemade and is no way close to fitting. Why anybody would want to change the BB ring is beyond my understanding, as the BB is way cool and has a unique sound. If you have a BB, don't molest it. Adding a 5-string neck is no problem, but destroying a rim is kinda unforgiveable.

Dave1climber - Posted - 09/29/2011:  19:25:54

I cry twice

roydsjr - Posted - 09/29/2011:  19:28:34

That is a shame! I bought me a Oriole on ebay recently and I made a neck for it since it was a tenor! It was made in the 20's or 30's. It does have the brass rod tone ring in it and man does it talk! I had planned to put a flathead in it but I've decided against it! It sounds so good like it is!

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 09/29/2011:  19:29:52

That is a sad story. I am so sorry. My BB is the finest banjo I have ever had.

Steven M - Posted - 09/30/2011:  00:14:16

I am sure he had other things on his mind :(

dickinnorwich - Posted - 09/30/2011:  05:41:37

Yikes.

One of the luckiest things that ever happened to me was to have met Kurt Kemp here on the BHO and to have him allow me to make him a BB rim for parts he had acquired. The resultant banjo "we" built is one of the best I've ever heard. I am so lucky to have had the opportunity to have been part of that project. The BB is a great banjo JUST AS IT IS and should be left alone. I can't for the life of me understand why people have this visceral need to change them. It defies all logic.

gdoc - Posted - 09/30/2011:  05:42:48

I asked the same question a several months back, Why change a BB banjo, as they are unique and have such a great sound--GREAT-- that no other banjo has.  The most often answer was "because it's mine"  "I can get a good flat head sound cheap".  Geez, if you want a flat head sound, buy a flat head banjo!?1

I've heard it said there are a lot of BB banjos.  Well, there can't be that many over all, and even if you call a few thousand a lot (in the greater picture) there are not near enough to fill the demand of those who want one.  The few people I have talked to who had one and let it go for one reason or another all wish they had it back.  Sure some have bought different banjos that are as good, in a different way, and are very happy with them, I can think of quite a few players who's banjos just sound fantastic!  But there is only one BB sounding banjo and that is a BB!  If the BB banjo sounded cheap, weak, lacking, I could see changing them in a heart beat, but they are just plain Awesome Sounding Banjos!

Sad to hear of another one being sacrificed

Hopefully, it can be repaired and have a new life as the banjo it was meant to be.

Gary.

beegee - Posted - 09/30/2011:  10:33:56

The damage was caused by the flathead conversion ring being too large so it did not seat on top of the bead evenly. It was askew and caused uneven force to be exerted by the tube against the bead. The tension hoop was really warped, but it will be OK. I'm going to try to make a plywood form to draw the bead back down where it belongs and use hide glue to secure it. I may have to pin it with small oak or maple dowels. The worst spot is about 1/16"  deflection. Looking into the gap, it looks suspiciously devoid of any glue residue, so I'm wondering if it was shipped with a loose bead back in 1925. As long as the stock BB ring was in place, everything was static.

Worst case scenario, remove the bead, replace it and turn it back to dimension on the lathe.

the.hogman - Posted - 09/30/2011:  10:44:34

This is an interesting thread. Is there any chance you could post a picture of the damage? I am very curious to see the bead moved on the rim like this. Seems like anything can happen if done improperly. Thanks!!

Wes Lassiter - Posted - 09/30/2011:  12:40:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by gdoc

I asked the same question a several months back, Why change a BB banjo, as they are unique and have such a great sound--GREAT-- that no other banjo has.  The most often answer was "because it's mine"  "I can get a good flat head sound cheap".  Geez, if you want a flat head sound, buy a flat head banjo!?1

I've heard it said there are a lot of BB banjos.  Well, there can't be that many over all, and even if you call a few thousand a lot (in the greater picture) there are not near enough to fill the demand of those who want one.  The few people I have talked to who had one and let it go for one reason or another all wish they had it back.  Sure some have bought different banjos that are as good, in a different way, and are very happy with them, I can think of quite a few players who's banjos just sound fantastic!  But there is only one BB sounding banjo and that is a BB!  If the BB banjo sounded cheap, weak, lacking, I could see changing them in a heart beat, but they are just plain Awesome Sounding Banjos!

Sad to hear of another one being sacrificed

Hopefully, it can be repaired and have a new life as the banjo it was meant to be.

Gary.

---

I feel the same way as Gary. Please don't butcher these banjos. I have had other really good banjo players jaws drop to the floor when they hear mine. I think Lloyd Loar knew what he was doing. No gimmicks as others contend, just great Ball bearing sound.

Kurt Kemp - Posted - 10/01/2011:  04:29:25

I would have never believed a ball bearing could sound as good as they do. I got a good deal on the 1926 rings and parts and thought I would assemble a banjo to sell. Dick made a beautiful rim for it and fit the TPF flange for me. He said it sounded fantastic and he was right. I don't play my flathead anymore and I can't put this BB down! It ain't for sale either.

I agree, they should remain unmolested. Mr. Loar really knew what he was doing. But, the "gotta have a flathead like Earl" stigma is a really, really hard thing for some folks to get past. Took me 30 years.

Ks_5-picker - Posted - 10/01/2011:  08:18:13

I've got a ball bearing that was also butchered at some point. somebody had taken the flange and resonator and apparently discarded them,They drilled 21 holes thorough the rim and  put I-bolts through,I suppose so they could have an open back banjo. They did retain the ball bearing setup.A friend of mine,who played tenor,had put a tenor neck on it and used it for years.He was not the one who did the damage,it was like that when he got it. He got a '26 that was in better shape so he gifted me with this one. Leo Posch built a neck for me and since the outside bead was nearly gone,he had Bill Sullivan restore the rim by adding a ply to the outside and turning it down to original specs. This was my first  banjo with a prewar rim.......they sure can sound great.