greenepickins - Posted - 06/04/2012:  17:13:19

Hey there everyone. Last week I purchased a Gold Tone OT-800LN longneck banjo.

I am wondering a few things about it.

What would be a good bridge to upgrade to from stock?

Is there a better alternative than the stock tailpiece?

What are some good and heavy gauge strings to get?

Don't get me wrong, it sounds GREAT as is! I am just wondering what would be things to change in the long run.

What are your preferences? Thanks for reading and hopefully some good suggestions come up!

llrevis - Posted - 06/04/2012:  21:34:43

I have recently added some ot the items you mentioned on my long neck banjo which has a similar tone ring to yours and am very pleased withe the results.

Jason Romero curved bridge

Cox tailpiece

GHS medium bronze strings 

Fyberskyn II head

Larry

Ken LeVan - Posted - 06/05/2012:  04:52:39

I looked up that model and the picture I saw has an  "Elite Amber" head or the Renaissance equivalent.

I think that's a good head and use them on my longnecks. Another alternative would be the Remo or Stewmac "Weather King" frosted, which is similar to the "Vegalon" heads used on the 50s and 60s Vega Pete Seegers.

Presto tailpieces are good for longnecks, although I make my own tailpieces.  I never apply any down pressure, which is why Prestos are good.

I don't know what the bridge height on that model is, but the curved bridge is a good idea. I make moon bridges and use them exclusively on my longnecks.  I have never gotten a complaint from anyone.

If the "tubaphone" pot on than GT OT-800 is anything like a Vega tubaphone, you don't need heavy strings. I use GHS PF 150 or PF 145.

Other than that, I HIGHLY recommend the Planet Waves banjo capo

thefolkshop - Posted - 06/05/2012:  06:38:39

I like a long Kerschner tail piece (level with head) and PF150s on Tub-A-Phones

john bange - Posted - 06/05/2012:  06:51:13

I got 2 of these a couple of years ago and did a review on them.  The Kerschner tail piece was a big improvement.  I found the nuts and hooks had poorly matched thread and I had to keep an eye on the head tension.  I replaced them with Stew-Mac stuff.  Other than that, they were great banjos. john

wesrichards - Posted - 06/05/2012:  07:09:46

It kind of depends on the sound you want, doesn't it? I hesitate to "upgrade" an instrument that's good to begin with, figuring the guys who made it know more about making it than I do and because when you alter something it loses value when you go to sell it. As for strings: John Pearse makes a set of .12s and probably there are others. But the trend today is lighter not heavier. You can build your own set out of guitar string singles if you know the gauges and materials you want. One caution no matter what you do: some string makers are saving money and keeping prices down by making strings shorter than they used to be. Make sure when buying that the 2nds and 3rds will be long enough. And the Gold Tones are set up for 10s... you may need to adjust the neck and tailpiece if you put on anything heavier.

wbheilmann - Posted - 06/05/2012:  09:20:23

I also have an OT-800 LN (2010). A Kerchner-style tailpiece is the only modification...the height can be adjusted. I use medium-gauge strings, usually John Pearse or D'Addario (they're pretty much the same thing.

Look into a little gizmo called "Earl's Suspender Capo" for your 5th string capo. It is super reliable, and requires no installation. I showed one to George Grove (Kingston Trio), and he has been using one ever since, after removing the Shubb rails from all of his banjos. If you don't like it, you're only out 15 bucks.

Hope this helps -- WB

vega long neck - Posted - 06/05/2012:  13:34:05

Pretty much any strings you like that fit the 2nd and 3rd strings lengthwise will be OK. Another LN thread just went semi-viral on a discussion of gauge but I would suggest that you experiment to suit yourself rather than go to a specific set of gauges because some one else did. You aren't them, you play differently, and probably have a different banjo; you're going to develop your own preferences. I have found, however, (Hah! just listen to me!!!!) that on MY LN I need at .024 gauge at a minimum on the fourth to buzzing when open. I use .024 most of the time and have used .026 also.

I think 5th string capos are personal too. I prefer a slide; an Ode on my Pete Seeger and newer Schubbs elsewhere. Spikes work fine, I just can't become fond of them. The suspender capo is a great idea but my playing habits from 46 years keep knocking it off. I also lose capos a lot so I like the slide that stays on the banjo. That's also the same reason I use a Paige for 1 thru 4, it stays on the neck all the time.

Play like YOU want to... play often.

mikehalloran - Posted - 06/06/2012:  07:48:20

There is no "upgrading" here. There is only swapping of components.

Correction: If you want it to play better in tune with a plain 3rd string, you should get a compensated bridge. That would qualify as an upgrade.

I like the sound of the '50s and '60s. Most of those players used a wound third which works much better on a straight bridge - I found some sets of medium gauge Vega strings in 1970 and have preferred them ever since. .012", .015", .020W, .026W, .012 - that set will make a long neck growl.

GHS makes strings long enough - even for ODEs with the big head stock using a wound 3rd. I prefer the stainless steel because the wound strings last longer. 

If using a plain third, than a curved bridge gives some compensation that puts you in the ball park. Steve Davis makes bridges that are correctly compensated for every string. I have used the old Shubb and Grover stair-step compensated bridges - better than no compensation.

Vega used Prestos on their upper end banjos in the early '60s and adjustable Waverly tailpieces on everything else. A Presto set too low will break - especially with the heavier strings most used then - so Vega, then Martin went with the Waverly on everything. The original Waverly Co. went under in 1968 but re-issues are out there.

The Kershner is not better. It is different, quite sturdy and fully adjustable. Excellent tail piece.

I have a Presto true 5 string on my Pete Seeger - set just below the top of the bridge so it won't break. I have an ODE tailpiece on my ODE/Muse - this is like a Kershner on steroids. Both are excellent - but they do sound a little different.

"Best" is the sound that You like. Very few on the BHO will ever set up their banjos like I do - and vise-versa. Doesn't make anyone right and no one is wrong.

'60s Waverly (reissue) nickel plated steel

True 5 string Presto as found on an early '60s Pete Seeger (no longer made but I have a spare for sale if interested)

Kershner repro

'20s Presto reissue

Grover stairstep bridge with '60 Waverly tailpiece. I no longer remember if this is/was one of my banjos or not.

Edited by - mikehalloran on 06/06/2012 08:06:03

Ken LeVan - Posted - 06/06/2012:  11:21:56

Nice photos, Mike!

I've gone through the tailpiece thing, myself. Having had prestos back in the 60s, I got used to them and used to make my own.

Recently, I started to think of tailpieces as a nuisance that needed to be addressed at the end of a project along with the armrest.  I started to fool with tailpieces and tried a few different kinds on longnecks as well as standard banjos.

There were several things that bothered me:

(1) I didn't like the hole in the middle of Prestos where you had to thread the 3rd string

(2) I didn't like the narrow space in some of them that would bunch the strings together

(3) I didn't like caps that would buzz and rattle (clamshell ones are the worst for this)

(4) I didn't like flimsy lightweight ones

(5) I thought most of them were too narrow

(6) many were hard to change strings

I hate the slotted ones with a passion because they bunch the strings, are flimsy and have a cap that rattles, are too narrow, so I got one called a "Nashville" and cut off the end and silver soldered a heavy piece of nickel silver on there so the 1st and 5th strings could go beyond the edges of the tailpiece:

This was a VAST improvement, but it still had the bloody cap that I didn't like, so I got a

Waverly one, and modified it - Close, but no cigar - still too narrow and a little too short. Part of the job of a tailpiece, in my opinion, is to cover up the head logos, which Remo keeps moving farther in:

Using what I had learned from this, I made my own, which is wider, has no cap, is easy to thread, is adjustable, is fairly heavy, has the lug attachment screw silver soldered on, and best of all, I don't have to buy these blasted things any more, and I can make them out of nickel silver, brass or stainless steel:

Here's a picture of one on a longneck along with an armrest I developed that gets rid of the things I don't like about armrests (armrests are another nuisance):

mikehalloran - Posted - 06/06/2012:  13:19:37

Kind of like a super presto - but done right. I agree with you on all counts.

For those who do want the tone associated with the lightweight non-adjustable 'pieces, it would be nice to see the true 5 string Grover reissued but with a removable cap.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 06/06/2012:  14:20:17

Thanks, Mike - I LOVE "super presto"

The only thing that is "super presto" is "prestissimo"  I think you have given me a name for this tailpiece.

Just for the record, on both of my tubaphone longnecks, I have Prestos, because I am a traditionalist, and they are traditional for that kind of banjo.

On the one to the right, which is an early 60s Vega, I have dutifully used the nickel plated Grover Rotomatics and the "Perma-tension" 5th peg, although both have the LeVan "blue moon" bridge.

What I CANNOT accept is the coordinator rods and set-screw neck adjusters they used after the Dave Guard era - shame on them.  I took them out of my 60's pot and put in a dowel stick.

That's an upgrade nobody has mentioned on this thread, and a BIG one- here is a pic of the backs of these:

TonyS - Posted - 06/09/2012:  06:19:47

What size is the Romero curved bridge?

mikehalloran - Posted - 06/09/2012:  10:09:02

>The only thing that is "super presto" is "prestissimo"  I think you have given me a name for this tailpiece.<

I'll accept partial credit and you are welcome to it with my compliments. The Prestissimo! Tailpiece. I love it!

Mike Longworth wouldn't accept the set screw adjusters either. That is how you tell the difference between the Vega made and Vega parts Martin/Vegas vs the Martin made Vegas with no set screws.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 06/09/2012:  14:51:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by TonyS

What size is the Romero curved bridge?

---

I don't know about the Romero, but the curve is variable by the amount of compensation you want. A custom builder ( like me) will make the curve to your specifications. Mine are about 7" radius - the same as the curve of a resonator - lately, I have made them with a smaller radius.

Much depends on the string gauges. Moon bridges are wonderful in that they correct the intonation problems inherent with banjos in a subtle way - not all things to all people.

TonyS - Posted - 06/10/2012:  16:53:08

Thanks uncle! but I meant the real beginner stuff - like the height, for ordering  - I have a OT800LN

mikehalloran - Posted - 06/10/2012:  16:57:32

quote:

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Originally posted by TonyS

Thanks uncle! but I meant the real beginner stuff - like the height, for ordering  - I have a OT800LN

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TonyS - Posted - 07/07/2012:  08:22:30

Thanks....thought so!

farmer bob - Posted - 08/14/2012:  14:03:52

Enjoyed reading about your upgrade ideas. I am beginning a new long neck build. I'm using a raw brass no knot tailpiece from Bill Rickard, instead of the import. Im also using his raw brass ball style shoes and hooks. Im not sure about the tonering. Might use a 12" Dobson instead of my own rolled brass. I like the look of planet geared pegheds on my last longneck,they worked out well so lm using them again... Bob.

mikehalloran - Posted - 08/14/2012:  23:36:42

quote:

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Originally posted by farmer bob



Enjoyed reading about your upgrade ideas. I am beginning a new long neck build. I'm using a raw brass no knot tailpiece from Bill Rickard, instead of the import. Im also using his raw brass ball style shoes and hooks. Im not sure about the tonering. Might use a 12" Dobson instead of my own rolled brass. I like the look of planet geared pegheds on my last longneck,they worked out well so lm using them again... Bob.

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Sounds interesting. Bob! Let us know how it turns out.

Seansvoice - Posted - 08/15/2012:  19:23:31

So far I have enjoyed the modified Vega Vox tailpiece I installed on Bobby than any other tailpiece I've used. Right behind that I would say I like the classic 1960s Ode tailpiece (except during string changes) and the Kerchner behind that. I always wanted to try the Fults but they don't work on Vega banjos (or so I am told)...

boulderfolkie - Posted - 09/07/2012:  14:19:51

Hey, Uncle.Fogey....Nice custom mutes...I use an old shirt Mr. Seeger gave me at Newport in '59....still smells like he just finished chopping a cord. :-(
Cheers,
OldFolkie

Ken LeVan - Posted - 09/07/2012:  14:33:37

quote:

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Originally posted by boulderfolkie

Hey, Uncle.Fogey....Nice custom mutes...I use an old shirt Mr. Seeger gave me at Newport in '59....still smells like he just finished chopping a cord. :-(

Cheers,

OldFolkie

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I used to use socks. 1 sock for normal, 2 socks for extra.

I like the natural sponges better than the socks.

It's worth noting that the great bluegrass player Bobby Thompson used a rolled up towel in his Baldwin Ode - same difference as Pete's T-shirt.

boulderfolkie - Posted - 09/08/2012:  22:29:30

We may be on our way to a new topic here.....but I'm wondering how many of us use various materials to mute our banjos....and why. I do it because I hate being out front on most tunes at band gigs and jams preferring instead to lend subtle background to a tune/song.

Helix - Posted - 09/09/2012:  06:15:45

felt on the blades keeps the bridge from vibrating, that's the key.