I saw one identical to it about 10 years ago here in Ct. Looked to be in mint condition and the owner was interested in selling at the time. Could be the same banjo? Not many made, I researched it and couldn't find another like it. I think it had a 10 or 10 1/2" head on it. I though what a great conversion it would be.
This one needs to be played ... converted or as is ... I'm sure it will get talked about on the mandolin group sites as well .... and yes that head looks small to me also .
I had one of these for a while,it was just as bad as any other banjo-mando. Goes to show that the quality of the instrument cannot overcome the shortcomings of the design.
Just curious here... since I am totally Not familiar.. with the eight strings... do you play each string individually? They seem to be organized in pairs. Do you play in pairs... like 4 pairs of 2 as a tenor?
Greetings, I'm new today to the Hangout. I was directed to this thread by Polle Flauno. He had provided me information about my recently acquired B&D Mandolin banjo, a 1928 Montana Silver Bell Special #1 and placed it on in his data base. Now I have more exactly identified when it was built, I continue working with it to try to make it as playable as possible. It has been quite a puzzle. I have had to have the neck reset, so that is fine. I had a Fiberskyn head put on it as well. Still, it produced quite an unpleasant sound. As I began playing it I soon realized that muting the strings behind the bridge helped eliminate much of the unwanted overtones and "noise". I laced some rawhide through the strings and rest my palm there as well. I also experimented with placing a block of foam between the dowel and the head on the inside. So, I have made some progress and a sort of melody potential has been achieved. I'm assuming that these instruments do not much lend themselves to playing very far up the neck. After the 5th/6th fret on the E strings the sound is obscured by what I can only describe as a plucky sound. The G strings fretted produce an obscuring quality that sounds more like a thud. It looks like someone last put J-74 mandolin strings on it. I wonder if there might be a more suitable choice? Any guidance offered would be appreciated. I've heard that mandolin banjo by and large don't have a very pleasant voice. I wish I had some idea of what will bring the best out of this instrument. I try and attach a picture. It was taken before I'd had any work done on it and the strings were not in place then.
heres another B+D you dont see every day,Silver bell tenor uke
Here is another example of a Bacon Uke, the only other that I have seen. Yours is a bit fancier! It was part of a large group of material from several contributors displayed in a vintage instrument exhibit that my wife and I hosted in 2007.
Thanks TB-4 guy & dmiller for posting the video. I have an 11" head. It would appear, from what I've seen and heard, and comments I've read here and elsewhere, that smaller heads tend to be reigning in, or tightening up the tone a bit. Am I out to lunch here? I'll experiment with loosening the tension on the fiberskyn head. Perhaps, I ought to just go with a skin head. This instrument is however still very new to me and I suspect familiarity will also continue to be a factor. I am hoping to see/hear some more of these instruments. Appreciate the input. I hope I have not commandeered this thread.
ive got an orpheum number 1 with an 11 .5 inch head and super nice tone ring, that thing sings, but most mando pickers hate the fact its heavier than a sack of potatoes.
this gives me hope that mine has more value than I thought. Mines just as fancy.
I´m very interested in hearing Nathan´s lovely example - don´t mind the music style or quality - for me it´s all about its sound. If you don´t want your recording published - do up-load it for private use only and give me the link - please - LOL! I´ll keep it confidential.
I´ve never had one of these SB mandolin banjos in my hands - so I couldn´t give Mark any advice regarding the set-up of his Montana.
Do btw. notice, that Mark´s Montana has the full 11" size pot - where Nathan´s is off the smaller 10" version.
I would love working on both - but I guess, that one of these rare banjos will never find its way to my workshop.
Thanks Guys! Only - it´s somewhat difficult hearing it due to the high tuning. It´s very much competing with the fiddles and pipes. But at the end of the recording Dan strikes it a few times on his own - the sound here seems clear and indeed well defined. I take, that it´s plenty powerful for this sort of gig.
I wonder, how Mark´s Montana - with its larger pot/reso assembly - would have mingled in.
Mark,
A pity, that we live so far apart - I would have loved setting up your lovely banjo - mind you for free - I´m a B&D freak/wizard - LOL!
Daniel & Nathan, thanks for uploading the video. I also, found the setting to be rather obscuring. Might you be willing to video a bit up close and solo. I especially would like to hear what the fretted notes on the E & G strings sound like as those are the ones that I am not particularly thrilled with on mine. It sure would helpful. Once I get a bit more familiar with mine I'll post something as well. I suspect there might be some interest in hearing what it sounds like with the 11" head. It is indeed heavier "than a sack of potatoes".
Polle, thanks for your assistance and directing me to the Hangout. Um...I've never been to Denmark.
I'll upload a couple more pictures. Perhaps there would be interest in seeing these other angles.
Nathan, what strings and gauges do you use on your Silver Bell? Also, do you use a thin pick? Seems I recall many Irish Trad players prefer lighter pics. It looks like someone last put D'addario J-74's on mine. Being a mandolinist I typically use a heavier pic. Perhaps, I'll have to make some concessions with this instrument.
heres another B+D you dont see every day,Silver bell tenor uke
Yes, those are very rare. But isn't that actually a small tenor banjo, also known as "melody banjo"? (designed for steel strings not gut). I don't think any manufacturer actually made "tenor" banjo uke, per se. Tenor ukulele as a separate size was invented by Martin. Baritone uke was invented by Favilla as a sort-of student guitar. Tenor ukes didn't ever catch on until the last 10 years or so. There was one banjo of that size made by Lange called the Langstile. It was advertised as a small tenor banjo or banjo ukulele. I've owned two of those and they both sounded pretty awful.
notice, that Mark´s Montana has the full 11" size pot - where Nathan´s is off the smaller 10" version.
Polle
Yes, a 10 inch head would probably sound a bit better. Weymann banjo ukes also had smaller 7 inch heads than most other professional banjo ukes such as Gibson UB-4 which used 8 inch. Mark should also try tightening the head a little bit which might improve the tone when he plays higher up the neck.
Go to the web sites of the famous banjo guru and world leading dealer Guenter Amendt in Germany - here you can see many more pics of f.ex. this long scale banjuke:
Go to the web sites of the famous banjo guru and world leading dealer Guenter Amendt in Germany - here you can see many more pics of f.ex. this long scale banjuke:
I take that the difference between a melody banjo and a banjuke like this goes for the tuning only (?)
Polle, I always assumed melody banjos used steel strings as well as 5ths tuning. The banjo-ukulele would use gut or nylon strings of course. As a side note; I've seen a few old publications (1920s - 30s) that advertise "metal" strings for ukulele. But these were similar to violin strings; gut wrapped with flat wire. Not the same as steel strings.
Muskrat and Polle have both recommended that I tighten the head. Admittedly, I know nothing about banjoes and wouldn't know how to determine how tight is tight. I suspect it is possible to over tighten? Is there a method to do so without purchasing a tension gauge? Also, is there a prescribed method for tightening? As the action is already higher than I like going up the neck (compared to mandolins I'm familiar with), I'm thinking tightening the head will slightly raise the action more. I also need to experiment with different bridges. The current bridge does not have much wood on the E string side to lower it further. Where do I find mando/banjo bridges or ones that are blank so that the string spacing notches can be filed? I'm thinking that a beefier bridge might also bring out a mellower voice. I have been playing it and the familiarity factor has helped quite a bit. Any assistance is appreciated. Thanks.
I don´t know which sound to expect from a banjo like yours - I have myself previously only tried examples of other brands and with a much smaller head.
GT writes the following about this banjo: "We have upgraded our well established MB-850 to include an 11" pot assembly instead of the 8" and use a vintage brown finish. The resonator is easily removable making this model convertible to an open back model. This new model has a great bass response and is louder than the original model."
No matter the head type used - this will have to be very tight - with a resonance tone between a G# and an A. Do have a look at these sites regarding tap tuning of the head:
When tightening the head - do go clockwise and give each nut max. a 1/4 turn - continue going around till you get the tension desired.
As for the bridge - do at first hand try a Grover Style 3-legged bridge - these are inexpensive elderly.com/accessories/items/BA3.htm . Depending on the present neck angle use either a ½" or a 5/8" example. Sand the ebony top down a little for removing the slots - then file/cut new small slots for the eight strings. If needed - reduce the height by sanding the bottom of the feet - let´s say up to 1/16".
As an alternative/supplement the neck/rim joint can be shimmed for increasing the neck angle. Use two small square pieces of a hard material - f.ex. plastic or metal - and place them appr. like this - use a drop of super glue for fixing them:
I'm thinking tightening the head will slightly raise the action more. I also need to experiment with different bridges. The current bridge does not have much wood on the E string side to lower it further…
Yes, tightening the head will raise the action as you surmised. It's a good idea to have various bridges on hand for that very reason. Banjo bridges are inexpensive and over the years I've ended up with many spares. When I change to a new head (especially real skin), the bridge must be evaluated for proper height. You can buy bridges at any of the banjo supply websites or even on ebay. I find that most of the bridges made for 4-string banjo have the string slots too close together. For that reason, i try to buy un-slotted bridges or fill in the slots and re-cut new ones. Stewart MacDonald make excellent slot cutting files.
When ordering Farquhar bridges I´ll ask for a wide spacing - this is however the same as the standard spacing these days for a Grover or a Grover style bridge - 33.5-34.0 mm ~ 1.32-1.33".
Polle & Muskrat, Thanks for the additional information.The "Gold Tone" example sounded better than how my B&D is presently sounding. I'm not the most proficient handyman. But I presume that I can probably figure out tuning the head. Could you link a Banjo Supply website where I might purchase un-slotted bridges? That would be easier given my experience level with this sort of thing.
