mutantmoose - Posted - 12/29/2013:  21:58:24

Okay, this will be a long-winded, over-excited post.

Around 1931, my wife's grandmother decided to buy a banjo because she and her girlfriends were going to start a band so that they "could meet boys". The plan floundered, and she never learned the instrument. It has been sitting ay my in-law's house for the last 20 or so years.

My in-laws are getting ready to move, are downsizing, and decided to give the banjo to me for my birthday this year.

I think the pictures tell the story - this is a gorgeous Kel Kroydon plectrum. The neck is nice and straight, the nickel is mostly in great condition, and the sound is wonderful. The paint is in great shape, and the celluloid is just incredibly white and mostly unfaded.

In addition to all that, it is in the original case, and has the original wrench in that case. The original bridge might be in there too.

The bad news - the original resonator screws are missing and have been replaced with three different pan-head machine screws. The armrest is missing, and the flange is broken underneath where that rest was. Also, the tailpiece has been rather badly soldered.

I know that the screws will be an easy fix, but I am not so sure about the flange. Since it is structurally sound, I suppose that I can leave it the way it is, or find a way to re-attach the pieces without causing further damage. I'll post in the repair area about that.

I pulled off the resonator, and found the batch number 9798-4 chalked inside twice, as well as stamped inside the shell. The 9798 number does not appear in the database at banjophiles.com. More interesting, an older number of 9744 is painted over inside the resonator.

Craziest of all - this is a plectrum. I can't find another picture of a plectrum Kel Kroydon, although someone else here did post about one at one point. Why a petite teenage girl living in Chinatown in the 30's would choose a long-scale banjo is beyond me. I suspect she bought it new, meaning it has been in the family since it was first sold.

Okay, bragging is over. I will pull the neck at some point and see what the heck is written in there.

Edited by - mutantmoose on 12/29/2013 22:08:12

Kel Kroydon back	Kel Kroydon Headstock	Kel Kroydon front	Kel Kroydon flange damage
Kel Kroydon stamped batch number	Kel Kroydon resonator	Kel Kroydon covered batch number

dmiller - Posted - 12/29/2013:  22:48:12

Interesting!!  I don't find number 9798 in Joe Spann's book.

But I do find - - 9744.  A TB SS Stewart from 1930.

ejimb0 - Posted - 12/29/2013:  23:41:15

My Truett PB-11 has no numbers anywhere. It is a dead ringer for your KK. Same red inside black flower on the headstock.. mine didn't have an armrest, no truss rod cover, same tint blue shading ..

You have a great banjo there,, congrats!

bluenote23 - Posted - 12/30/2013:  05:48:17

Wow! Congratulations on a wonderful gift.

I recently purchased the less expensive ($40.00 list price in the 30's) KK10 plectrum. You can see pictures of it on my homepage but I don't know how to post those pictures in a thread. Mine as purchased had no armrest and a newer (40's) Waverly tailpiece. There were no batch number marks at all on mine (there's a hint of a batch number on the butt end of the neck but it  looks like it was sanded away at one point)

I'm currently waiting on a conversion neck from Robin Smith.

Ebanjo - Posted - 12/30/2013:  06:11:10

Nice banjo. If you convert it to a 5 string you can still use the case too.
Eric Ellis

Fathand - Posted - 12/30/2013:  06:11:24

I know someone with a Gibson PB11 looks the same. A replacement flange and screws, armrest and suitable tailpiece should set you back about $200 or less from Stew Mac or similar suppliers.

If you have the pieces of the original flange save them and you might be able to find someone that can repair it some day.

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 12/30/2013:  06:34:22

Wow. A GREAT find! Don't you DARE have that rim cut!

hsjim - Posted - 12/30/2013:  07:18:23

Cool banjo!

They make great conversions.

I own 2 KK 11's

9797-10

9797-34

Yours would be the next logical FON number.

Pics of mine on the home page. If your interested.

mutantmoose - Posted - 12/30/2013:  07:22:35

Don't worry - I have no modding plans at this point, just repair and refurb. If I decide that I seriously want a 5 string Gibson-style banjo, I'll build one or buy one, but I think this is a neat enough instrument that I should leave it in original shape - it has survived this long, why screw with it too much?

The flange is a bit of a hassle - it is in otherwise great shape, no serious bends or twists. I suspect that a repairman did some of the damage, the resonator would not have been broken by the family, since they never took the resonator off. There is a repair order inside the case for strings and welding the tailpiece 20 years ago, and obviously the head was replaced at some point as well. My thought on the flange is to do nothing, but think seriously about some kind of EASILY REVERSIBLE glue job. Since this is not a structural issue, that would probably be more than sufficient to look better. I just wouldn't want to get any glue in the broken areas, in case there is the possibility of soldering it together in the future, which would also require some re-plating, and at that point, why not just get a new flange?

So, I guess this would be a KK-11? Or at least close enough that we can call it that for now?

bluenote23 - Posted - 12/30/2013:  07:46:02

The KK11 was the fancier of the two Kel Kroydons. It had red highlights on the resonator and neck where the KK10 was only in black. I think your KK11 neck is bound as well where my KK10 neck has no binding. So yes, it's a KK11.

Usually the KK10 is finished in black where the KK11 is dark blue. Like I said, retail price of the KK10 was $40.00 in the 30's. The KK11 was $55.00.

You can convert it to a 5 string simply by getting a neck made. So you will keep the original integrity of the banjo and you can always reconvert it to a plectrum by sticking the old neck back on.

I would just get an armrest (that will sort of cover up the damaged flange) and forget about the glue.

Ks_5-picker - Posted - 12/30/2013:  09:02:43

Perfect candidate for the Mitch tone ring, which requires no cutting of the rim to put a 3 lb ring in it.

NYCJazz - Posted - 12/30/2013:  09:31:46

Wow

That IS a rarity... From my experience, (mostly from Bacon plectrums) is that the simple tone ring plectrums work pretty well the way they are, and depending on the setup, can sound pretty spectacular!. I'd love to try one of these!

From what I understand, plectrums were more common on the West Coast back then. They still only accounted for about 10% of production.

Kudos to your Grandmother!

iluvearl - Posted - 12/30/2013:  09:44:00

If you want to get the flange repaired, you might try Martin Welding in New Lebanon, Ohio. He did a great job on several flanges I sent for repair. His email is: martinwelding709@cs.com. If interested, drop him a note and ask for a quote! Thumbscrews, arm rests and tailpieces come up for sale quite often in the BHO classified section. Happy Birthday!

dmiller - Posted - 12/30/2013:  11:10:15

Not to change the subject - - but I really like the looks of the bookcase and the stack of records behind the banjo there!  Kinda looks like my place.  Eclectic, but messy!     Congrats on the KK.  That's a heck-uv-a-nice birthday present.

The Old Timer - Posted - 12/30/2013:  17:10:24

That's really great! Remember, Banjophiles is a spreadsheet of numbers sent in by volunteer owners and scouring "for sale" ads. So your banjo should be added to the list to enrich it as an info source.

You might also send your photos and comments to Greg Earnest's photo web site of pre war Gibsons.



Gibson was known to swap resonators and wipe out the chalk number and renumber it, at the factory. It could also be a repair or replacement for a busted resonator (maybe the same calamity that busted the flange?)



If the case is original and hard shell, it may be worth nearly as much as the banjo!!!



Enjoy!

Edited by - The Old Timer on 12/30/2013 17:11:03

mutantmoose - Posted - 12/30/2013:  17:29:20

I had forgotten to mention that - original hardshell case. I'll post a picture in a bit.

mutantmoose - Posted - 12/30/2013:  18:11:32

Okay, in my hasty enjoyment of the banjo, I neglected to take much notice of the case.

It is in fantastic shape.

Hoo boy. And how much do these go for?

Kel Kroydon case front

Kel Kroydon case back

prewartb3 - Posted - 12/31/2013:  03:45:49

Great looking banjo. What a nice piece of history. NICE!!