Bullsprig2003 - Posted - 02/12/2014:  19:30:19

I felt the need to write a short post about my experience with secondlifebanjo.com.

I know nothing about banjos and I have never posted here before, but I inherited a Gibson which sat in a closet for 30 years. I recently sold it to secondlifebanjo.com.

I want to be VERY respectful of the forum here and not get into the nitty gritty and the ugliness, but I felt it was my absolute responsibility to share with the banjo community to be very careful of this business. I have had a very bad experience with the owner and would recommend anyone considering doing business with him, to be very careful. I will leave it just about at that; the less said than better.

Since I believe he may be a member here, and since his recent emails to me are likely indicative, it is quite possible he will post and go into great detail about how he did nothing wrong and I am some terrible person. Rest assured, I am not.

If you are buying a banjo from him, it may sound good and look wonderful, but I am positive you will not get the whole story of how he acquired the piece in the first place.

I hope you all have taken this post in the light it has been given, and hope you understand I am only posting so as to hopefully help someone avoid a bad experience in the future. 

If anyone has questions, I have made my email available to forum members.

pinkbyfloyd - Posted - 02/12/2014:  19:41:57

I don't think you can just say something like that without explaining yourself about what actually happened.

Bullsprig2003 - Posted - 02/12/2014:  20:05:38

No problem. So everyone knows, I am ONLY adding details because I have been asked to.

I advertised the banjo for sale on ebay. Here's the auction # 1111247645417, please look it up.

I stated in the auction that I know NOTHING about banjos. I shot nine photos the best I could, and after stating that I know nothing about Banjos stated for any potential purchaser to look at the photos carefully because I know nothing about banjos.

Carl purchased the Banjo on my ebay auction without asking any additional questions or asking to see any additional photos. The business is in Canada and I made special arrangements to ship it to Canada for him, even though my auction stated I only wanted to ship within the US.

After he had the banjo two weeks, he sent me an email telling me it wasn't in as good of condition as he expected... He made no request for refund, nor did he ask for any money back. Just sent me an email telling me it wasn't as good as he expected, nothing else.

Two days later he filed a fraud claim with Paypal, stating the banjo was "significantly not as described".

Here are snippits of his emails to me:

"Are you some kind of small crook?"

"You have some twisted mind"

"You must think that other people are stupid"

"You are pathetic"

Here's what I believe really happened:

He buys banjos for cheap, fixes them up, then sells them at a massive premium. He is a dealer and makes his living doing this (which is fine). He bought my banjo expecting to make a killing, it wasn't as good as he thought and wasn't going to make as much money as he wanted, so he starts sending me crappy emails and filing false claims to ebay to get his money back.

If you make money refurbishing banjos fine, just accept responsibility for your mistakes just as you accept profits for your home runs.

Let me state again clearly: I know nothing about banjos and still know nothing about banjos. I clearly stated I know nothing about banjos in the auction and referred potential buyers to the best pictures I could take. I made NO misrepresentations. In life there are right ways to treat people and wrong ways to treat people. This is a wrong way.

One last thing. Before even filing the claim, and asking for anything, he went and left me bad feedback on ebay. Until this ridiculous transaction, I had 540 positive feedbacks without one negative. 

Edited by - Bullsprig2003 on 02/12/2014 20:20:42

Shake-Boy - Posted - 02/12/2014:  20:29:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bullsprig2003

No problem. So everyone knows, I am ONLY adding details because I have been asked to.

I advertised the banjo for sale on ebay. Here's the auction # 1111247645417, please look it up.

---

I was unable to look up this auction using the number provided.  The search generated zero results.   How about providing a link?

Edited by - Shake-Boy on 02/12/2014 20:30:44

Shake-Boy - Posted - 02/12/2014:  20:47:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bullsprig2003

No problem. So everyone knows, I am ONLY adding details because I have been asked to.

I advertised the banjo for sale on ebay. Here's the auction # 1111247645417, please look it up.

Never mind - I found it.  You have an extra digit in your number above.  The correct number is 111247645417.   Here's a link to the auction:

tinyurl.com/pb3sh3l

Bullsprig2003 - Posted - 02/12/2014:  20:51:09

If you search "Gibson RB-175 Long Neck Banjo, 1960's", then click on completed items, you'll find it.

Again, I want to be completely respectful of this forum.

Thank you.

David Cunningham - Posted - 02/12/2014:  21:09:45

I doesn't look too bad in the photos for the money.  I can't see what grounds he had to file a paypal claim.  There wasn't enough info in the auction to have grounds for "significantly not as described".  And it SUCKS when someone files a claim and leaves negative feedback without first trying to resolve the issue with the seller directly, as clearly stated in ebay rules.  That usually indicates a fraud on their part, not to mention cowardice.  That part alone would irk me.

buckholler - Posted - 02/12/2014:  21:37:53

The crappy part is that ebay/paypal are pro buyer. And even when you did noting wrong they usually side with the buyer. From my personal experience anyways. Even if you state no returns he may be able to get his money back plus shipping. I'd tell him to send it back on his dime and you'll refund his money, thats what I've done in the past. At least you'll be able to get it back and find another buyer for it.



Being you sent it international (Canada) I hope theirs no taxes on its return, which could happen with US Customs, but you can look that up or call US Customs and they should be able to tell you.



It sold cheap enough. Get it back and maybe someone here would want it??

 

You can also refute the bad feedback, and add notes to his feedback and explain what when on.  Just because you have one won't ruin your credibility.    I'd also leave him feedback aswell.

Edited by - buckholler on 02/12/2014 21:39:56

pastorharry - Posted - 02/12/2014:  23:36:28

That banjo looks fine to me at a great price, in fact really low for what it is.....that banjo appears to need nothing except possibly set up,I don't get it.

sold1ode - Posted - 02/13/2014:  05:06:06

BlowingRockNC - Posted - 02/13/2014:  05:30:26

I don't like getting into pissing contests, but I can't let this go by without comment. I know nothing of the details of this transaction, but I've dealt with Carl at Second Life a number of times. In fact, I've purchased two banjos from him. The two I got were absolutely wonderful. He is a master at building and repairing banjos. He's also a great person to deal with. In my first dealing with him, I bought a banjo without a case. At no extra charge, he included a new Superior openback HSC. I asked him about it, and he said that he had had a good week, and he just wanted to pass his good fortune along and that I happened to be there. I later purchased another banjo from him, and it also was a great experience and a great banjo. Yes, he buys used banjos and junk, then he puts it all together into a great banjo. I don't mean good, I mean great. He's honest, prompt, and very courteous. I think the person who started this thread is probably the one with the problem, not Carl. Just my two cents.

sold1ode - Posted - 02/13/2014:  05:31:00

I wish to provide a rather different take on the lamentable transaction between Bullspring 2003 and Second Life Banjos. I have visited Second Life, purchased two banjos from Carl and have found him an absolute pleasure to deal with. He lives in rural Quebec; works primarily as a carpenter, with his passion for banjos a sideline. This said he began working with guitars and later banjos many decades ago in Montreal and a is highly skilled luthier. As someone who owns (or has owned) banjos ranging from Pre-War Gibsons, to a Cloverlick, and Romeros, and guitars ranging from Martins to Lowdens, Carl's work is outstanding. Indeed, he is presently building me another banjo. While I hesitate to say too much about Bullspring2003's experience, I would say that Gibson RB175s are not coveted the same way Deerings or original Vega long necks are, or for that matter, as much as Ode longnecks, like the one I Purchased new from Boulder in 1960 for 99.00. Not surprisingly then, Carl was the sole bidder on Bullstring2003's banjo and his 550.00 selling price seems about right. While Carl buys used banjos to fix up, and like the rest of us tries to get the best price, his prices on banjos he restores for sale hardly represents a "massive premium [profit]" as Bullstring2003 alleges. Indeed, any of us who have purchased and played Second Life Banjos realize they are a bargain, fine instruments brought back to life in large measure because Carl loves doing so. For price and quality, Carl's work is second to none in North America. So, while I always lament when buyer and seller disagree, as has happened to me once or twice, I stand by Carl both personally and professionally. John C. Kennedy

DouglasMcArthur - Posted - 02/13/2014:  05:41:35

Shoot dang! get that puppy back! I'll give ya $550 for it

ScratchJohnson - Posted - 02/13/2014:  05:45:18

Maybe the guy is just a better seller than a buyer.

BlowingRockNC - Posted - 02/13/2014:  06:20:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by ScratchJohnson

Maybe the guy is just a better seller than a buyer.

 

---

I'm sure this was a little tongue in cheek, but Carl has great reviews from everyone he both buys from and sells to, at least here on BHO. While I've never met Carl face-to-face, I would take his side over that of a fly-by poster, who joined in order to post his message on the same day he joined. This is the second time in the past couple of months that a fly-by has slandered a good person here on this board. The first time I saw it was with BanjoTeacher (Ross). I had not dealt before with Ross, but the attack so bothered me that I purchased a banjo from Ross the next day (I had been planning on getting the same banjo from another source, and my dealings with Ross were perfect in every respect). Now, I see this garbage being posted about someone I have done business with in the past, and I know for a fact that Carl isn't like what the OP is portraying. I'm done now.

tiband - Posted - 02/13/2014:  06:42:22

Douglas, Scratch Johnson, Pastor Harry

About the banjo I got from Mr. Allen Cripe ( Bullspring 2003)



If you guys have looked at the sellers' pictures you probably want to buy his banjo but take a look at the banjo I got.

He did not show any defects of the banjo in his ad and did it intentionally. He also claimed that the banjo was comparable to other sold between $800,00 and $1200,00



I only want my money back because I cannot re sale a long neck banjo with a broken neck. He never mentioned that the banjo was broken and that the finish was a total ruin on the neck and the pot. You don't need to know anything about banjo to see a broken head stock and tuners and a totally ruin finish.



He claim to everyone that I screw him up. I really don't see how sending a banjo back and asking for a refund is a fraud. Pay Pal gave me total latitude to go on with the return after they saw the ad and hour mutual e-mail exchange.. even if the seller did not want the banjo back. .



This Allen Cripe decided to ruin my reputation based on a banjo he sold me and totally refuses to take back. I will not post the e-mail he sent me because it's totally insane.

He became a member here only to ruin my reputation.



Please take a close look at those 3 pictures of his banjo and tell me if I was wrong to ship it back.



 

Edited by - tiband on 02/13/2014 06:44:51

BlowingRockNC - Posted - 02/13/2014:  07:10:03

Carl, I don't think you need worry about your reputation. It's well-earned, and it's stellar. Bill.

Qarl - Posted - 02/13/2014:  07:29:25

To be honest, he did not state it was comparable to banjos that sell between $850 and $1200.  

"I know very little about this banjo, except they regularly sell on the internet for between $850-1200."

You can see the broken tuner in the photos.

You can see the finish condition on the front and back of the peghead. If the peghead is like this, the rest of the neck will be like it.

But you are right, the broken neck is not photographed.

Hopefully you will both be able to come to a resolution.  Or not.

Joe Connor - Posted - 02/13/2014:  07:31:04

It sounds to me like a mutual mistake without fraud on either end but with bruised feelings on each end. There's a great risk inherent in buying an instrument sight unseen, especially when the seller professes to know little about instruments.  I'm sure Carl is fully aware of that risk. There is also a risk in selling something you know nothing about because the item may have a serious defect that only a knowledgeable person would detect. It sounds like Carl thought he was buying a banjo with no major defects. While the price he paid is a good one, it's not crazy low. It sounds like Mr. Cripe thought that he was selling a banjo without any serious defects. They were both wrong. A fair resolution would a refund and a return of the banjo to the seller, with the buyer and seller splitting the return shipment costs.

Let's address a couple of points that the two parties have made: (1)   He also claimed that the banjo was comparable to other sold between $800,00 and $1200,00  Not really true. The seller claimed that he has seen this model banjo sell in other auctions for this amount but was not giving a warranty on the condition of this banjo ; and (2)  Carl purchased the Banjo on my ebay auction without asking any additional questions   So what? Why would you ask questions of someone who professes total ignorance of the item he is selling?

Just my 2 cents worth. 

john bange - Posted - 02/13/2014:  07:34:42

shoot, dang, I'll give you 550 for it...

that's what I said too, when I first started reading this

when I saw the photos of the actual banjo, I think it was clear that while the seller might not have known much about banjos, he knew enough to avoid showing the obvious, serious structural problems.

I would have filed a claim just like the buyer did.  I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, Carl.

I'm gonna link this thread to the long neck group in case It shows up for sale again

Edited by - john bange on 02/13/2014 07:38:59

patrickstefanski - Posted - 02/13/2014:  07:43:19

Banjophobic - Posted - 02/13/2014:  07:51:10

A forum is never the right place to air things like this. It invited commentary and speculation from well meaning folks who really don't know the real details beyond what each side expresses. I wish moderators would immediately lock threads such a these as they serve no purpose but to allow character assignation and smearing ones reputation from the OP. The commentary of folks who have no business being involved also builds cases for and or against each party, which is not fair. 

What I see from someone who makes a post like this is  the goal of  garnering sympathy or animosity  for something best handled privately and through paypal. Man up and take care of your business the proper way.

Bullsprig2003 - Posted - 02/13/2014:  07:54:51

As I stated before, I know nothing about banjos.

However, I know tons about vintage and antique Winchesters, Colts, and Marlins, and I have bought MANY over the internet in the last few years. I am not a dealer, just a passionate collector.

Whenever I purchase over the internet, I realize I am taking a bit of a risk. I look at the photos carefully, and if there is any question about what I am buying, I either ask for many more photos, more information, or don't bid at all.

If there has ever been I time when I have made a mistake, (which there has been), and the seller did nothing to deceive me... I have had to accepted that sometimes I win and sometimes I lose... NOT ONCE have I asked the seller to refund my money because I didn't ask enough questions before I bid, or just got so excited about the prospect of a "great deal"... so I didn't ask for enough information. Not once.

I don't know what a "fly by poster" is, but the only thing I have tried to do is explain a situation in a place where banjo people are, so maybe they don't have the same negative experience I had: that's it.

I know nothing about banjos and tried to do the best I could in the listing. I still know nothing about banjos, If anyone has a real interest in it, please feel free to contact me,  at bloopiedoop@gmail.com.... and yes, Carl, my name is Allen Cripe.

TLG - Posted - 02/13/2014:  08:12:18

I aggre with banjophobic.
Settle this outside Banjohangout !!!!

Tommy

lazyarcher - Posted - 02/13/2014:  09:40:29

There is only one honorable way to settle this...

A Canadian Duel.

Beers at 20 paces

wesrichards - Posted - 02/13/2014:  09:50:05

My only contact with Second Life was buying.  I did it directly through Carl's website.  I had questions about everything including shipping to the US and he answered them all and correctly and in the tone of the gentleman I believe him to be.  And I now own a beautiful hundred year old Buckbee with a Carl neck.  And it's out of this world wonderful for my type of playin'. Just sayin'

The Pope - Posted - 02/13/2014:  11:13:41

Lazy Archer, no contest as the guy with the Bud Light is unarmed. As David Letterman says, "Light beer is for infants.". 

ScratchJohnson - Posted - 02/13/2014:  11:24:05

I'm not gonna lie. I know very little to be a banjo guru. That being said, I could tell by the original photos in the listing that the finish was fubar ( looks like my deck ) and that the tuner was broken - and I know squat. The crack in the neck, judging by your photo, is something that a non-banjo person wouldn't know to photograph because it ain't all that noticeable to random folks. My comment about being a bad buyer was part tongue-in-cheek and part about the  correspondence sent.

I think that you got what you paid for.

That being said, I've been checking out your site and with all the positive comments wouldn't think twice about buying a banjo from you.

ScratchJohnson - Posted - 02/13/2014:  11:24:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Pope

Lazy Archer, no contest as the guy with the Bud Light is unarmed. As David Letterman says, "Light beer is for infants.". 

---

Seconded.

J.Albert - Posted - 02/13/2014:  15:14:22

From looking at the ebay pics, the tension hoop looks to be flared out, as well.

And the condition of the finish on the neck is all-but beyond repair.

I would have passed on it, regarless of price...

DouglasMcArthur - Posted - 02/15/2014:  04:03:06

Yep, looks like there is a bit of misunderstanding on both ends,

Bullsprig: joining a forum just to flame a long standing member?

That is the most uncool thing that occurred here.

tiband - Posted - 02/15/2014:  08:08:11

I wrote to the moderator about it the very first day but never had an answer.

Here is the last message I received on E-Bay from Bullsprig.
I think he did'n like Banjo hangout .


Nice website, jerk.

What a bunch of BS. No wonder you can't believe everything you read on the net.

- bullsprig2003

TLG - Posted - 02/15/2014:  12:31:39

I have wanted to ask, Carl did you really email these quotes to Bullsprig ?
"You have some twisted mind", "Are you some kind of small crook?", "You must think that other people are stupid", "You are pathetic"
I am sure we don't know the whole story but these quotes doesn't sound professional if really said by Carl. And the quotes to Carl isn't professional either.
This should have been settles thru ebay/paypal not the Banjo Hangout.

Tommy