talknormal - Posted - 03/12/2014:  15:08:26

Helix - Posted - 03/12/2014:  15:37:34

I will frail before sunrise with fingers, and claw, too, but I always play up picking with picks.

I also play 3-finger lead to solo and back into frailing for singing and backup.

Finding the right string is muscle memory, slow down. Learn to feel, it's a millimeter.

I went back a few years ago and re learned up picking. I now play pinch chords which are two-finger patterns, both hammering on and pulling off, fuller sound.

I don't touch the head to strum, whatever style.

But if you must, rest all five fingers on the head, just kidding.

Anything else? You are not alone.

Paul R - Posted - 03/12/2014:  17:35:04

Back when I did Seeger picking, I used a thumb pick, a regular finger pick on the index finger, and a flattened finger pick put on backwards (over the nail) on the middle finger.

There's nothing stopping you from playing clawhammer with your group. Check out Chris Coole's videos on YouTube, and a Folk Alley video of David Francey, singing "Pandora's Box", backed by Chris on CH banjo. Sorry I don't have the links, but they should be easy to find (here's a photo, below, of Chris backing up David a couple of weeks ago).

As for bare finger picking, I do it on guitar (I use fingerpicks, too) and a bit of two-finger thumb lead. I don't worry too much about the length of the nail, just have enough to sound the note. It seems to be compatible with CH length, too.

John Gribble - Posted - 03/12/2014:  18:17:06

When I played regularly in that style, I used picks but brushed down with the back of my ring finger, nail only. It was loud enough.

I never rest my fingers on the head when playing a bum-ditty. Nor did I when doing short two-finger picking passages. 

Bill H - Posted - 03/12/2014:  18:21:14

My up picking is essentially the same as a clawhammer or frailing stroke rhythmically. Except think up-down, like with flat picking. I have been playing that way for a long time so I've developed some quirky things. When up picking it is always my index, and I catch the string with the under side of my nail, so I don't like my nail to get too long. I down pick with either index or middle, either on a single string for playing fiddle tunes, or sometimes using a brush for accompanying singing. Drop thumb is the same rhythmically, but may resemble a two finger backward roll, but for me it's not two finger picking since a drop thumb usually followed by a down stroke.

Check out some of the tunes on my homepage, essentially the same sound as clawhammer style.

grumpsie - Posted - 03/13/2014:  02:15:25

I can't play seeger style at all with fingers on the head, as far as I'm concerned it's a hand floating style.

If you need to plant, try up with thumb or index, strum with middle then thumb on 5th (or whatever). But that's more dock boggsy... which may actually suit your purposes better

Steve Jeter - Posted - 03/13/2014:  07:12:21

funny, that this is posted today, last night I was watching Mike Seegar Oltime banjo styles,,, he came to this style, said it was what Ralph Stanley did on little birdie, and also Pete Seeger did mostly. Mike said the big advantage is you could achieve great speed. I tried it some,, poorly , but I think I will try to learn it.
thanks for posting this, kinda neat seeing somebody else is in the same place
Steve

Fathand - Posted - 03/13/2014:  07:48:58

Seeger style was the first thing I learned. After a couple tunes I learned to down pick. I immediately converted the tunes I had learned up  picking to down  and never bothered with up-picking again.  The tone and rhythm is so similar I do not see any great reason to use both. I find down picking much easier to play faster largely because of the slow down of bare fingered picking through mud you mentioned. Like you said it feels clumsy and unnatural compared to down picking.

As for resting or planting fingers on the head, this is not normally done in either Seeger style or Clawhammer although they might brush the head occasionally.

Growing out your middle fingernail for frailing will not interfere with up picking with your index finger like Seeger.

Steve Donnelly - Posted - 03/13/2014:  14:52:46

Re Seeger style: That's the first way I learned in 1956.

I didn't usually use picks and did plant my little finger on the head.

I planted my little finger with 2 and 3 finger playing and used picks.

Michael Smith - Posted - 03/14/2014:  07:44:35

Hi AJ

I never touch the head when doing up picking. can do it without picks, but I don't like the muddy sound I get, so I always use picks. I used to turn the pick on the middle finger, but eventually made a bidirectional pick so I can switch between Seeger and Scruggs styles. here is a video of a slow song that shows the hand movement pretty well.

banjohangout.org/myhangout/vid...p?alpha=W

Michael Smith - Posted - 03/14/2014:  08:03:57

Strange, I checked my url that I put in my reply and it went to someone else. If you want to see mine, look For What a Friend we Have in Jesus in the hangout video archive by Michael Smith

Jim Yates - Posted - 03/14/2014:  09:25:48

Although I can't find it right now, I have seen a video of Pete playing 3 finger style with his thumb, index and ring fingers, probably to avoid having to use the inverted pick on the bird finger, since he also uses up-picking in the same song.

Found it.  Although it looks like Pete isn't using picks here, he wouldn't want to change fingers when he took off his picks.

youtube.com/watch?v=Y8_9mohCUeE

Edited by - Jim Yates on 03/14/2014 09:33:40

swampyankee11 - Posted - 03/14/2014:  13:34:36

Jim,
Thanks for sharing. What a great tune!

talknormal - Posted - 03/14/2014:  13:41:00

Hi all, thanks for all the responses! It's useful to see at least that there seems to be a variety of approaches, and I also get the impression that the main answer to my situation is just to practice more -- no great surprise there. Steve, it's funny you mention speed supposedly being an advantage of this style -- I had hoped the same thing (and I've seen videos of Clifton Hicks playing in a Seeger-ish style at a good clip and liked the sound)… but so far, speed has NOT been achieved by me! But anyway I will buckle down and keep messing around with it and keep you all posted if I make any great breakthroughs. Thanks again for the advice! -aj

jbird39 - Posted - 03/15/2014:  13:11:17

i don't want to repeat what others have already said but i've been picking seeger/two finger style for about 40 years.and thought i would give my  2 cents worth.i use 2 finger picks and no thumb pick.  i do no rest my fingers on the head like bluegrass pickers do.use your hand like clawhammer pickers do.if you are having trouble finding the strings when you pick try this drill. put a finger pick on you index finger. dont do the bumditty part just yet. pick out random single string notes or better yet a familiar tune . then when that becomes comfortable put in your bumdiddy you will get it just keep messing with it.hope this helps

Joe Connor - Posted - 03/15/2014:  19:04:37

Does anyone in here do both Seeger up-picking and frailing/clawhammer well? I started  with Seeger up-picking and was fairly decent. However, as soon as I learned to frail, I lost all ability to do up-picking. 

pickincat - Posted - 03/17/2014:  01:16:46

Joe. I do both. Do a search on Pete Seeger Mary Lou. This was one of the first Seeger lessons I tackled. It's not Seeger's only style so anyone who says 'Seeger style' just has a lot more of his works to catch up on. I still play this song several times a week cuz I can change the lyrics and sing to my cats about cats. Hahahahaah

Though some of my practices are boring, I try to throw in some BG, OT and CH every time. Keep what's good working and make sure you also practice outside of your comfort zone.

Gerrit - Posted - 03/19/2014:  02:23:57

AJ,

You could do what Pete Seeger calls "the basic strum" with finger picks (just like a bluegrass player, thumb, index, middel). Pick up with index and/or middel finger, brush down with nail of ring finger, hit 5th with thumb pick. The advantage is that you can play folksy songs strumming in the background, and do bluegrass style solo's. 

Background: I started, like so many people with Pete Seeger's book. Doing up picking, the "basic strum" without picks. Later I learned bluegrass style picking, of course with finger picks. Than I learned to do "the basic strum" with picks. I prefer now to strum with picks. And like this combination.  

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 03/19/2014:  11:43:50

quote:

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Originally posted by pickincat

Joe. I do both. Do a search on Pete Seeger Mary Lou. This was one of the first Seeger lessons I tackled. It's not Seeger's only style so anyone who says 'Seeger style' just has a lot more of his works to catch up on. I still play this song several times a week cuz I can change the lyrics and sing to my cats about cats. Hahahahaah



Though some of my practices are boring, I try to throw in some BG, OT and CH every time. Keep what's good working and make sure you also practice outside of your comfort zone.

 

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I could not find anything with "Pete Seeger Mary Lou". Was there a typo error on your part or can you give me more information?

Thanks,

Ken