willowridge - Posted - 04/14/2014:  06:24:04

I love my vintage Saga banjo. The craftsmanship is superb and it plays like butter. But if I were to do anything else to it to bring it up a level, I would replace the zinc alloy (I think) tone ring and rim with brass and 3 ply respectably. I know that I can get a combo for an affordable price from RK but do not want to put an inferior product on this instrument. How well are they made and how good is the brass? Also, if possible I would like to use my existing flanges because they are good with the original resonator. If I change out the tone ring and rim can I use the flanges I already have. Sorry if these questions might seem basic but I have never had to do this before. But then again, I am asking friends, not critics.

  Thanks, Donald.

Tomcat - Posted - 04/14/2014:  06:46:48

The RK rings are as good as any. Depending on the tone your looking for better than a lot.  Really any of the tone rings you read about on here are good rings. They may have some differences in tone but to say any are really better than others is a stretch. The good thing about the RK rings are they are affordable and sound as good as any of the high priced rings out there. I'm currently in the works of going from a Sullivan V35 ring back to an RK ring.

desert rose - Posted - 04/14/2014:  06:54:10

How good are they, they are very very good. They are not brass they are sandcast bronze using a prewar Mastertone tonering as a model. They are cast using the same methods used in prewar casting, which NO American tonering maker can use

Scott

Goldstarman - Posted - 04/14/2014:  06:57:05

I agree, one of the best rings made......people dont give the credit due to them because of costs and where they are made, but there good

Tomcat - Posted - 04/14/2014:  07:26:07

It's funny but Recording King as far as I know have never made any claims to have cornered the prewar sound like some . But when I play an RK (and I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination) it has more of those characteristics  describe as prewar sound than any other I've played. Like i said im no expert but have played two or three prewar flat heads over the years. The people behind these banjos  and the parts know what they are doing! Here is a good example of the tone they produce.   youtu.be/TKU-Ulj0z0Q

kjcole - Posted - 04/14/2014:  07:43:59

Tomcat, those two RK's in the video sound darn good (I can't say 'pre-war' because I'm not sure exactly what that sound is), at least in Jim Pankey's hands, especially the 75.  Another example demonstrating that in a modern masterclone, a good setup and the hands of someone who can pull tone are probably two of the most important ingredients of "that sound" we all like.   Even a pre-war flathead pot can sound awful when set up wrong and/or in the hands of someone who hasn't figured out how important the right hand is to tone.  But those two RK's wouldn't be out of place on stage with a top pro player.

Edited by - kjcole on 04/14/2014 07:52:36

Banjophobic - Posted - 04/14/2014:  07:44:52

They a great rings and I find them about as good as any you can get. I won't open any canned worms with the whole prewar thing, but just speaking of great tone, I will say it's on par with all the modern rings available. 

You do not have to spend  a ton of money to get a great ring these days. I have been  recommending the ring since these banjos hit the market and have used them in lots of build projects for customers and tried them myself in various assemblies ( and I play an RK 36). 

Edited by - Banjophobic on 04/14/2014 07:47:45

Smurf2dope - Posted - 04/14/2014:  07:51:31

Nobody has the RK pot assembly in stock. Also, nobody knows when they will be in stock again.  

At least I haven't found one. Good luck with your search. 

revellfa - Posted - 04/14/2014:  09:15:06

I recently emailed Larry Perkins about the RK tone rings and in his opinion they are second to none. He shared two things that shocked me...

#1. The RK rings are made in China which means that they don't have to abide by EPA regulations like American tone ring manufacturers do. This means they can use the exact formula/method that was used in the pre-war days.

#2. Larry had a pre-war conversion that he stuck 6 different high dollar rings in and the no-hole RK ring was by far and away the best according to many people.

So, given this testimony by a well-known expert like Larry Perkins should tell us that they are good...very good.

willowridge - Posted - 04/14/2014:  09:33:27

As usual the info on this site is the best to be had. There is not much else I would do to this banjo. Will my stock flanges meet up with the new ring/rim combo?

lazyarcher - Posted - 04/14/2014:  10:19:02

Perhaps the best value in a tone ring today. They are killer. If I was to replace an existing ring, or build a new banjo, I'd put an RK in it.

roydsjr - Posted - 04/14/2014:  10:44:52

Your flange may not fit the RK Pot. I think the rim will fit a tad loose. I could be wrong though. I've tried a Saga flange and it fits a tad loose. I believe the Saga is very close to the fit of Gibson. (I could be wrong there too!). The RK Flange should fit your resonator fine,though! It runs very close to standard far as fitting in the resonators!

gmo - Posted - 04/14/2014:  11:55:40

Also, your "vintage" Saga likely has a 2 piece flange (tube and plate) type pot which is vastly different from a 1 piece set up like the RK. If this is the case, your best bet would be to get a RK pot assembly ( if you can find one), and have some one fit your neck to it . You can probably use your tension hoop and hooks and nuts and tailpiece .I did one similar to this only used a 3 ply rim I had on hand and a Goldstar tone ring. Made a really good banjo, and I know the setup with a RK pot would be just as good if not better. Good luck with whatever you decide to do !!
George

steve davis - Posted - 04/14/2014:  12:15:13

I have a couple of those rings and tried them out on my 29 2 conversion and Cox K5 with fine results.

 

Edited by - steve davis on 04/14/2014 12:18:12

willowridge - Posted - 04/14/2014:  14:38:22

Really great stuff guys! I see that Stew Mac sells a three ply maple rim. Has anybody tried one of these? At least they can be purchased. Might take some tweeking though for the RK tone ring...

As mentioned before, this would be about the only thing I would need to do to this banjo to bring it up a notch. It sounds great now. I can only imagine what it might sound like with the upgrade. That is assuming it does have a zinc alloy tone ring. It is a pretty good bet that it does. But I don't want to take the banjo apart yet to find out. But I would need to do some homework to be sure this modification could be done with as little pain as possible...:-)

gmo - Posted - 04/14/2014:  22:09:26

The Stewmac rims are not turned for a ring or flange. You would have to get someone to do that work, but since you will need to have your neck hell to pot fit adjusted ( if you go to a 1 piece flange assuming your Saga is a 2 piece flange) , then you can get all the work done at once. Here's a thought, if the Saga is a 2 piece flange banjo and if you go with a rim blank such as the Stewmac, you could get the rim turned for a 2 piece flange and reuse your Saga hardware . You would need to send your banjo to the luthier of your choice and have him replicate the fit. As a plus, you would then be able to keep your old pot (rim and ring) and, should you decide to sell your banjo in the future, reinstall the stock parts . You might be able to get a better price that way since some buyers are looking for the older banjos as they were made. I ran into that problem when I tried to sell the old Saga I converted to 3 ply and 1piece flange even though it was ,by far, a better banjo than the stock version.!! Anyway hope some of this helps.
George
P.S. If you still want to go 1 piece flange, using the RK pot is still the better (and cheaper) way to go.

Old Hickory - Posted - 04/15/2014:  07:49:05

I think the best deal on a 3-ply rim these days is a Cooperman rim sold and turned by Northern Forest Music:

Price list on Cooperman rims

$60 for the rim plus $40 to turn it to fit your tone ring (and flange, too, I would imagine) and $10 to drill for lag bolts.

So once you have your ring and flange, send them to Norther Forest to be worked on.

The next best deal is the complete RK pot -- ring, rim, flange -- for $230 - $260.  But as said above, no one seems to have it in stock right now.

I was recently in the market for just the 10-13/16 inner diameter RK flange and no one had that, either.  The 10-11/16 was widely available.  Found one used here on the Hangout.  And that's where I found my RK ring last year.

J.Albert - Posted - 04/16/2014:  15:40:28

If it looks like you're going to end up spending around $200-250 for an RK ring/rim by the time all is said and done...

... why not bite the bullet and look for a used RK-35 or -36 ??