raykor - Posted - 08/15/2014:  23:05:35

Anyone trying to get that Stanley sound with their archtop? What bridges do you like for that?  I've got an FB 58 converted with a Gold Tone archtop  ring and a block mahogany rim.Original four hump tailpiece down close to the 5 Star smooth head.Right now,I have an old Snuffy bridge on it that sounds okay.Wondering if I can do better. I prefer traditional non-compensated bridges,cause they are old fashioned.Thanks folks!

Luvmoochine - Posted - 08/15/2014:  23:53:33

Tim Purcell makes a maple bridge that should fit your needs. I'd lend/sell you the one I'm not using right now, but it's got a notched 3rd. New ones are not relatively expensive any way. 

Take care. 

Emiel - Posted - 08/16/2014:  00:53:48

The Stanley sound comes from the extremely tight head and picking close to the bridge; less from which bridge used...

dilrods - Posted - 08/16/2014:  03:03:35

Good discussion here:

banjohangout.org/archive/124691


In general, Ralph used a standard 5/8" bridge that was "thinner" than average. You could go whole hog and get Bart Veerman's "Archie" bridge for about as bright a sound as a bridge can give you. Emiel is right, it's the player's technique (especially picking very close to the bridge), not the banjo, but these set-up points have a huge impact on sound too.

the-fish - Posted - 08/16/2014:  05:43:26

Bridge has a lot to do with it! Mine on my original stanleytone is very very thin!

Emiel - Posted - 08/16/2014:  08:59:19

Alright: for the Stanley tone you use a thin bridge, an extreme tight smooth white Five-Star (Ludwig) head, and you play close to the bridge  ...and preferably an archtop banjo.

Edited by - Emiel on 08/16/2014 09:00:42

The Old Timer - Posted - 08/16/2014:  09:01:23

I agree that type of banjo, head tightness and right hand position is more important than the bridge. I use an 11/16" regulation Snuffy Smith on my 1927 Style 5 Deluxe with a tight 5 star head, and put my pinkie finger behind the bridge and ring finger at the treble tip of the bridge. The Stanley Sound just explodes out of it, and I've been developing the ability to turn the Stanley Sound on and off at will since 1970.

Not disputing that a thinner bridge might make it even moreso. But I'm not into fussing with bridges. I like Snuffys because they are TALL so I can get a good purchase on the strings, and they are stout so they don't sag much, nor break easily when I need to move the bridge a little. Also I like that backwards cant toward the tailpiece.

Bart Veerman - Posted - 08/16/2014:  09:11:31

quote:

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Originally posted by Emiel

and preferably an archtop banjo.

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Emiel - Posted - 08/16/2014:  09:42:12

quote:

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Originally posted by Bart Veerman

quote:

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Originally posted by Emiel

and preferably an archtop banjo.

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Yes, it's been reported here before: that there are recordings from a Stanley concert in Japan, where he played a flathead. Nobody noticed it; he sounded the same...

The Old Timer - Posted - 08/16/2014:  10:37:16

Emiel, I beg to differ about Ralph's banjo in Japan. "Some" noticed the difference. 99% of it is Ralph himself of course, but that banjo did sound a little different.

Emiel - Posted - 08/16/2014:  11:30:11

quote:

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

Emiel, I beg to differ about Ralph's banjo in Japan. "Some" noticed the difference. 99% of it is Ralph himself of course, but that banjo did sound a little different.

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Alright, I just quoted what others said. I shouldn't have said "nobody"..., of course.  I would say though that those  99% is Ralph (picking technique) and set-up as well... Setup and picking technique seem to be more important than tonering type... 

Edited by - Emiel on 08/16/2014 11:30:33

Dan Drabek - Posted - 08/16/2014:  13:11:57

There was also apparently a Ludwig conversion banjo that Ralph played. (I don't know if it was ever played in concert)  Ludwig pots are flatheads, but have quite a bright sound. The heads are 10 3/4" in diameter.

DD

Buzzbomb - Posted - 08/16/2014:  14:28:06

Many thanks for the thread & highlighting the earlier one too!

PS: Ralph also can be seen playing a Goldstar flathead towards the end of his Homespun DVD (on "Worried Man Blues"). Also check the "Stanley style" BHO Group for more info on the banjo used on the Jap '71 tour.

silvioferretti - Posted - 08/17/2014:  02:10:44

quote:

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Originally posted by Emiel

quote:

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Originally posted by Bart Veerman

quote:

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Originally posted by Emiel

and preferably an archtop banjo.

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---

Yes, it's been reported here before: that there are recordings from a Stanley concert in Japan, where he played a flathead. Nobody noticed it; he sounded the same...

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Absolutely, I have that record somewhere and you could never tell he played a flathead.

TJAndrews - Posted - 08/17/2014:  03:13:50

I spoke with Ralph one time about his set up. He talked about good thicker gauge picks, light strings, picking near the bridge, and a tight head. In my experience the bridge doesnt matter so much if you have all of the above going on. And also, leading with the index instead of the thumb. Its all about that "Stanley roll".

raykor - Posted - 08/17/2014:  10:39:59

Thanks all for your input.I too believe it is in the hands and setup.There is no softer,easier way to do Dr. Stanley! I don't have the nerve to buy a good bridge and then mess it up by thinning it.But for us mortals,an archtop with the tight setup might get us a lttle closer,I hope.Oh well,back to the slow downer program.That index lead is hard.Be well y'all!

Ken LeVan - Posted - 08/17/2014:  14:00:28

I think a lot of the "Stanley" sound comes from his picking position close to the bridge.

However, I played a 1927 archtop Granada for a good 30 years, liked the snappy sound, and have found that lighter bridges are better at that.

Back in the 60s whan I was learning about that banjo, I kept making the bridge lighter and lighter, carving away material with an X-acto knife until there was nothing there. Here's a pic of a bridge I used for probably 20 years - you can see it's been played and played. It got the "Stanley sound" with the '27 archtop

Years later, I am more interested in tone color than just "snap", and I have tried a lot of different things and have made a lot of bridges. Currently, I am using a spalted maple moon bridge on the Granada. The spalted maple is lighter because of the fungus attack, and has found to be of great value in the violin world.

Here's a pic of it on the old Granada:

I think it's the best of both worlds - can peel paint, but has complexity in the tone.

You can see from the picture that I am using an amber head. If I wanted more harshness, I would use a frosted one, but as I say, I have been doing this for nearly 50 years, and am going in the direction of tone color while trying to preserve the snap.

It's a complex system and every part contributes something.

If you want the "old recording Stanley sound", I would say very light bridge,  frosted head tuned very tight, light strings, and pick close to the bridge.

steve davis - Posted - 08/17/2014:  14:03:27

A tight head with a normal bridge will take you as "Ralph" as you want to go.

5 Star head isn't a must,but it makes things easier,imo.

stanleytone - Posted - 08/23/2014:  03:34:57

you can always order one from Frank Neat, the guy who builds the Stanleytones.

Kevin B - Posted - 08/23/2014:  05:55:31

A friend of mine gets great Stanley sound out of a 1978 Goldtone archtop with one of Bart Veerman "Archy" bridges.

Ralph Stanley legend - Posted - 11/25/2014:  10:00:54

I just replaced an Elite amber head ( very good bass ) with a smooth head, bottom frosted. I am really happy with the change in tone. Very clear and a lot of what I term " FIZZ " just that old tonering singing away. I must post a video !

Cheers

David 

David Cunningham - Posted - 11/25/2014:  11:45:14

There are a lot of other bridges yet to try.  Archtop sound needs note separation.  Look for that.  Maple is not always the best for that, though some maple bridges can do it.  In my experience, there are a few other wood combinations that deliver that sound better for the average (not Ralph Stanley) player.  I'd bet a Hotspot or similar would work well.

Edited by - David Cunningham on 11/25/2014 11:50:09

RioStat - Posted - 11/25/2014:  13:19:10

I've found that David Cunningham's (see the post before this one) zebrawood / katalox bridgs really bring my archtops to life!

Excellent note separation, clarity up and down the neck, and an increase in volume.

Plus, the zebrawood looks good !

earlsway - Posted - 11/25/2014:  13:49:41

It's not the bridge........

steve davis - Posted - 11/25/2014:  13:50:24

Smoked maple is very crisp at certain weights.

David Cunningham - Posted - 11/25/2014:  14:03:36

Smoked crawdads are good too!  Just don't smoke them.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 11/25/2014:  15:38:51

When I was  kid, 50 years ago, I got a 1927 Granada archtop -lucky me! I was in Brooklyn at the time and had a lot of good advice and help.

My thesis was to make the lightest bridge possible so that you got the maximum "plink" I have a picture of the bridge that I used for probably 30 years, which was shaved with an X-acto knife and the feet were hollowed out.

To quote the famous VW ad of the era, it's ugly, but it gets you there - I only show this because I used it for 30 years, and it produced the "Stanley sound": It weighed nothing:

Now, with better heads and more knowledge of setups, I prefer a  heavier bridge with more expressiveness ( the Stanley sound is not expressive). I have posted this before, but my paradigm for a great archtop sound is a tight (A) amber head and an expressive bridge , either red maple or spalted maple in the 2.5 gram range.

steve davis - Posted - 11/25/2014:  16:16:06

I've found the Sullivan maple to have more treble at the same weight as air dried rock maple.

oliver james - Posted - 11/25/2014:  16:33:19

I love that bridge ken! Its amazing youve
Had it that long! Love the rough look
of it too