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TLG - Posted - 10/11/2014: 17:40:12
Interesting.
I have never seen a resonator model Blue Ribbon. (but I haven't seen everything) Looks like the Senorita style resonator & flange but with a tonering.
Maby special order ??
I ask the seller for a sn #
Maby Polle will know
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/12/2014: 09:43:33
Since the flange is part of the resonator, it's easily added. Probably ordered that way.
I like it!
Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/12/2014: 14:02:18
It's a later one, which might account for the resonator. The early ones had the fully perforated tone ring.
TLG - Posted - 10/12/2014: 18:41:52
I noticed the no holes in the tonering also.
The seller responded to my question about the sn # but didn't tell the number, in fact didn't say much of anything, I ask again about the #'s on the rim & dowel stick, if they matched.
Someone's already bid.
CEParagon124 - Posted - 10/12/2014: 20:37:24
I assume that simply removing the resonator would turn this into a super open back banjo.
Are you looking at the tone ring through the head?
Charlie Noyes
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 10/12/2014: 23:28:17
The standard production of the Blue Ribbon model stopped early/mid 1924 - all examples till then in my databases have in-/out-side perforated tone rings.
However Ed Britt has documented one example built early 1927 - and with a non-perforated tone ring - as the example in question maybe has.
The laminated resonator with a tulip hole flange was introduced as a standard feature on the Peerless X Special model late 1926 - I do however in my extended database have a few examples of the Super model with this resonator/flange - also starting late 1926 - but not as a standard feature.
Conclusion for now - either the banjo in question is a later hybrid - or it´s a most likely custom built example from 1927 or later.
A serial number would be of great help.
Polle
Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/13/2014: 03:03:42
I've seen pictures of two or three of the later Blue Ribbons--both 4- and 5-stringed. Polle's right though that they were few and far between.
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 10/13/2014: 05:11:09
PS!
The term "custom built" does often indicate an example somewhat more costly than a standard example.
But - maybe the "custom built" example in question was in fact a somewhat cheap version of an early 1927 B&D Super A - with the non-perforated tone ring and the tulip hole flange/resonator - due to the use of old-stock overlay(s)?
Who knows?
Again - the actual serial number could tell us more!
TLG - Posted - 10/13/2014: 07:49:57
I haven't heard back from the seller, a pawn shop I think, so we may never know the sn #
Maybe everyone should ask the seller for the sn #
being someone has already bid, the seller thinks it's not an issue about the #'s
I already have a Blue Ribbon & won't bid anyway.
Tom
rbell - Posted - 10/16/2014: 21:56:19
The seller sent me pics of the interior of the banjo after removing the resonator. As you can see the serial number on the rim is 27715 - quite a bit later than the BR production range, I believe - and seems to bear no resemblance to any BR tone ring i have seen, though the silver paint might indicate a Bacon rim, but one made considerably later and of simpler construction. There's only one shot of the dowel stick and the upturned aspect seems devoid of any legend that would identify the model and grade - this legend on most B&D products is deeply and boldly stamped. The lateral side is in shadow and I cannot detect any evidence of the usual Bacon Banjo Company, Groton, Ct., U.S.A. stamp. Whether or not the resonator is of Bacon manufacture I don't know but it would appear to be after market - I hasten to add that I am no expert on B&D banjo so I yield to Mssrs. Britt and Flaunoe on this score and everything else in this commentary. The neck (if not the dowel stick) seems to be the only portion of the banjo that is a BR and a fairly high grade one at that, given the heel carving and bound peg head. My guess is that this banjo at best might be a repair job done at the factory - the skin head does bear a Bacon logo.
As an aside I am the current caretaker of the infamous (on these pages) B&D "Silver Bell" #8750, I can attest to what appear to be interesting factory restorations: #8750 has a face-plate turned snap-in resonator, a late BR/Super Banjo tone ring, silver-plated hardware on the rim and resonator but a neck (5-string) with a carved heel, bound peghead, and the customary "B&D Silver Bell" inlaid on the p.h. veneer. One could call it a No. 2 Silver Bell. However there is no bold legend declaring what model and grade it is on the dowel stick but there is the company brand on the lateral aspect of the dowel. The badges customarily seen on snap-in resonators are missing. Best guess is that #8750 was a late BR that suffered a fall sustaining a neck fracture and then sent to Bacon where it was repaired with an updated neck. Who knows? - the neck on 27715 might be that missing neck....silly speculation.
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 10/17/2014: 00:23:26
Well - this banjo seems to have many or at least some fathers - LOL!
The resonator assembly is identical with that found on a B&D Special No. 3 - however combined with the rim and the "odd" and characteristic tone ring - the whole pot assembly seems to come from a private-labeled Rhythm King No. 3 Special 4-string banjo (do notice the 4-string notch in the hoop).
SN 27714 - its "neighbor" and very likely its twin - is a 1929 Rhythm King No. 3 Special tenor.
As for the neck - some of you guys may know more about this - I´ve never had a BR in my hands.
As for the dowel - my guess is, that this was made by the guy (3rd father?) putting this hybrid together.
Polle
Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 10/17/2014 00:39:01
dspainters - Posted - 10/17/2014: 05:17:53
compare it to my blue ribbon inside pot
TLG - Posted - 10/17/2014: 05:38:03
I have several Bacon pots with the tonering as pictured in Robert Bell's post or from the ebay seller's photos. A "Little Wonder" type but 5/16" rod with a skirt, apparently not a Blue Ribbon tonering.
A nice neck & I wish I had it for a conversion.
black flag - Posted - 10/17/2014: 13:09:04
It's not one of the great old Bacons, but a nice instrument nonetheless.
Chris
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 10/18/2014: 08:48:22
The tone ring used for the Rhythm King No. 3 Special model is unique - I´ve never seen it used on any other Bacon/B&D model. Do have a closer look at the pics.
BTW - the dowel may very well be original to the pot - the Rhythm King is one of the few private labeled series, that didn´t get the "Made by Bacon ----" stamp at the dowel - neither was it branded with BACON or B&D at the peghead.
Polle
