The Old Timer - Posted - 10/12/2014:  16:04:18

After 30 years with the Cox conversion flat head in it, I decided to put my old 26 Granada back to ball bearing.  I'm blessed now with two new-ish Gibson flat heads that take care of anything I need to do in a stage situation.   I played a 25 Granada ball bearing in a jam session a few weeks ago and that old sound got me all jazzed up to put mine back.

I forgot you had to take the neck off to change tone rings (dang!) so it was more work than just changing the head.   But I got everything apart with ease, and back together OK after two tries (I didn't have the old "skirt" piece tunked down even all the way around the first time).   THANKFULLY all 96 washers, springs and ball bearings were present and accounted for.

Got her back together and noticed the medium crown Remo head I was using wanted to pull down too much, it bottomed out in the neck cut-out.   But I kept the tension hoop even and didn't break any of the old hooks.   I guess the head tap is G or a bit more.

Anyway, lost the flat head volume of course, but VERY pleased with the full tone the banjo still has if you don't mash on it too hard.

I guess I'll order a low crown head so I can crank that baby up and make it snap more.

It was my only banjo back in 83 and I was playing on stage a fair amount, is why I had Jimmy Cox do the flat head conversion in the first place.   It served me mightily that way for 30+ years!  Now I have a ball bearing in my arsenal again.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 10/12/2014:  16:46:29

Dick,

It sounds like you have some beautiful banjo sounds. I like seeing the original back intact.  Enjoy.

Ken

revellfa - Posted - 10/12/2014:  16:54:32

That's what I'm talkin' about! Those old Ball Bearings can't be beaten and should be kept as is! Good choice.

Dave1climber - Posted - 10/12/2014:  18:08:43

A few years ago I had the good fortune to acquire all of the washers, springs, balls, skirt, and tone ring.  Bill Rickard built, turned, and drilled a rim for all of the parts.  I built a neck, put it all together.  So far every one that hears it likes the tone and playability.  I only wish that I had the original rim.

etparadox - Posted - 10/12/2014:  22:27:09

Gotta love the ball bearing sound. Good to hear one is back in original condition. With so many good new banjos, it's a shame to change the old ones. 

McUtsi - Posted - 10/13/2014:  00:57:33

I´m glad to hear this,Old Timer ; reversal to orig specs,great...and,nothing´s

better than a BB...that system really worked...McUtsi

Culloden - Posted - 10/13/2014:  03:33:53

I had a 1925 TB3 converted to five string by Olen Gardner. It had a beautiful tone and sounded great in a jam session but it did not mike well. I traded it for a flat head Mastertone. If I knew then what I know now I would have never gotten rid of it. In a recording studio the ball bearing holds its own with any banjo.

5StringNewbie - Posted - 10/13/2014:  09:09:45

I was following your post earlier when you first considered this. Glad you got the parts you needed. Any chance of a clip so we can hear what the old girl sounds like?

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/13/2014:  11:08:59

I don't know how to, or have equipment to make sound clips, elsewise I should have made a pre and post recording! Duh... too late.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 10/13/2014:  19:17:44

Dick,
That would have been interesting.
ken

bobdenver1961 - Posted - 10/14/2014:  08:06:10

That ball bearing sound is very nice and pleasant. Great banjo for around the house picking. I have a 25 Granada and just really like it. 

Good thing you had all the old parts still around to convert yours back to original!

Bob

Edited by - bobdenver1961 on 10/14/2014 08:06:36

Siminoff - Posted - 10/14/2014:  08:42:39

I have a few ball-bearing banjos and love them for their tone color, sustain, and power. And, I really enjoy bringing them to festivals because the reduced weight makes they a bit easier to lug around. I did want to add a comment about the original ball bearing set ups. If you have been fortunate enough to be the first one to take apart an original Gibson ball bearing banjo, you may have noticed the paper discs (from a paper hole punch) underneath the bottom-most washer. Gibson used these during initial set up to get all the balls to the same height before putting on the tone tube. Most folks wonder where they came from and just toss them. I'm not so convinced that they were needed, but that's a different story. I experienced this a few times years back, and kind of forgot about it until I recently took apart a nice ball bearing tenor with a fully ruptured JJR skin head and found more of the discs on my work bench. I have some where the hole punch caught some of the letters from an early typewriter. ..R

DASJO - Posted - 10/14/2014:  09:49:09

DASJO - Posted - 10/14/2014:  09:52:32

That's good to hear! I knew there was a reason that some of us didn't cut the rim and kept that old tone ring and all its pieces around. I'll have to buy a head to change mine back. DS

lightgauge - Posted - 10/14/2014:  10:25:41

If anyone had a set laying back somewhere, I would love to have it and try it on my '26.

Leslie R - Posted - 10/14/2014:  13:57:59

I had my 25 listed for sale, at a good price, but no takers. Now I'm glad for it. I'm gonna set it up with all the ball bearings and such. I'm thinking of using a goat skin head. Another thing I've never done, but I can learn. I'm learning clawhammer and I may set it up as an open back. We'll see how it goes.

revellfa - Posted - 10/15/2014:  13:54:31

Leslie. Here is my 26 BB played in the clawhammer style. It had a plastic head in this video

VIDEO: 1926 Gibson Ball Bearing Banjo "Shout Little Lulu" Clawhammer Banjo (click to view)

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/15/2014:  15:20:48

It's interesting, I had a fairly new American Banjo extra-frosting head on this Granada with the Cox ring in it. I had put the AMB head to try to kill a bit of "hollowness" in the tone. It was really too loud to play in a house jam, and I wanted to see if I could take the hollowness out somehow. A Balch calfskin head (done last year) took care of that, and when the weather/humidity was PERFECT it had an unbeatable tone and you could REALLY bear down on, a la Jimmy Mills. But I got tired of waiting for perfect humidity, so I put the AMB extra frosting Remo on it. Sounded GREAT.



But after playing a super bright/snappy 25 Granada at a jam a few weeks ago, I got all itchy to switch mine back to ball bearing. I put the same AMB head back on. The odd part is, I don't have that super bright SNAP! and PING! in this banjo, like the 25 I played recently with a 5 Star opaque white, no frosting head that was TIGHT!!!!! As I said above, I could only pull this AMB to about a G note before the tension hoop bottomed out in the notch of my particular 5 string conversion neck (it's not the head's fault, is what I mean).



So I realize when my low crown head comes and I crank 'er up, it will brighten and ping considerably.   I'm using a Snuffy Smith bridge with light/medium strings and 3/16" action.  Same as when it was the flat head.



HOWEVER, after all that, if anyone listened to me play this banjo right now without seeing the face of it, they would say it sounds like a flat head!!! The tone is deep, woody, "thick" and sonorous. The AMB head really gives it a complex full tone. Not zingy/pingy at all. Of course, not as loud as a flat head. But remarkably similar in TONE.



If you want to explore the tonal differences you can get out of your ball bearing, try an AMB extra frosting head, tuned to about G or so. You may really like it!

 

Edited by - The Old Timer on 10/15/2014 15:22:06

Leslie R - Posted - 10/15/2014:  21:06:49

In the past I had a GT premounted skin head on it.  There was the humidity issue you mentioned.  I read on the BHO at that time you could spray some ScotchGuard on it, and it would give some protection against the humidity. So I tried it.  I can't back this up with any scientifically measured data, but it did work, and didn't affect the tone.  That was years ago.  I do remember, the tone was very sensitive to the head being touched, even just a little, with skin or plastic.  Since then, I removed the ball bearings and put a plastic head on it. Still sounds good, but not as good as the skin head.  I'm trying to learn clawhammer, so I think I'm gonna put the ball bearings back in, and maybe go with a GT premounted skin head.  I do recall the head was pretty thick.  I think a thinner head would sound better.  However, it's tedious enough getting those ball bearings, washers, springs in all the holes, without somehow ending up with all of that on the floor.  I can't imagine trying that with mounting a goat skin head.  I've never mounted a skin head the old fashioned way.  Probably first grade stuff to some, but it scares me to even think about it.

Emiel - Posted - 10/16/2014:  01:38:41

I haven't tried one of the AMB heads (there are two) on my ball-bearing (1926 TB-3 with a maple five-string reproduction neck).

I have said this before. I do think that the regular Remo top-frosted is a fine head for most any banjo, according to taste. I prefer it on my openback Tubaphone, for instance. On the bb however, I do think it sound just a bit thin. The Renaissance head or the Five-Star top-frosted (my personal preference for the bb) do a much better job here.

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/17/2014:  15:19:38

Oh baby! Got a low crown Remo Elite head today from Elderly and put that baby on, and before I knew it is was cranked up to a B note. Whooooeeeee! She's crackling crispy fried now all right!! This is the old ball bearing sound I was trying to get back to.

I'll be picking it at a local club show Sunday evening. Probably the first thing I'll notice is it isn't loud enough to play in a band situation! I'm sure I'll find myself trying to overdrive it. But I'm gonna have some fun with it. I'll stick close to a mike. Takes me back over 30 years!

Odd that the only low crown head I could find to buy was the Remo Elite (the semi-translucent one).

Emiel - Posted - 10/18/2014:  01:34:32

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Old Timer

Odd that the only low crown head I could find to buy was the Remo Elite (the semi-translucent one).

---

I guess you mean the Remo Renaissance head, which is the same as the Elite Amber head. (The Elite head is the same as the Remo Fiberskyn.) The Renaissance head is a very good choice for the ball-bearing banjo.

Edit: Please tell us how it was in the "band situation"...

Edited by - Emiel on 10/18/2014 01:36:30

Leslie R - Posted - 10/18/2014:  04:26:03

Inquiring minds want to know.  How'd it go ?

The Old Timer - Posted - 10/18/2014:  06:24:30

Will report on band situation Sunday night. And yes, it's that amber Elite head, semi-transulecent. I've never used one and it looks a bit weird, seeing the ball bearing guts faintly through the head!

McUtsi - Posted - 10/18/2014:  10:00:39

Yeah,but it´s innards are cool looking...I normally prefer clear heads,but on my ´26/´28

RB-3 BB I have a top frosted REMO...I get better finger anchor grip w/ clear(and,

on a micro level,clear means more contact ´tween fingers & head),but this head has

been through a process that combines the best of two worlds:it´s been played-in by a

tenor player(ON a tenor as well,of course)that left a rather smooth surface over most

of the X-Y stretch...McUtsi

revellfa - Posted - 10/20/2014:  07:44:54

Don't mean to steal your post but I tried a Ren head on my BB a while ago and I liked it!

VIDEO: 1926 BB Renassisance Head (click to view)

Brett - Posted - 10/20/2014:  12:51:43

I'm shocked you got it that tight and didn't break some flat hooks.