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emmabeth - Posted - 05/26/2015: 13:51:49
So...I've only been playing clawhammer/old time banjo for a few months, but I come from guitar and mandolin, so I have both a head start and a taste for nicer instruments. I currently play a Gold Tone CC-OT, which is highly decent in its own little way. It will likely stick around indefinitely as my keep-at-work/beater banjo.
However, I'm selling another instrument to a family member (should have payment in a week or two), so I'll have a little cash available (say $1K-sub 1.5K), and I'd like to upgrade to a nicer banjo soon: something that will play easily, sound good, and hold its value in case I ever decide to resell. (Hopefully it will be a banjo I keep and play for many years, but I'm aware there's always the chance my preferences will change/become more defined as I progress, or I could suddenly stumble on The One and want to raise funds...)
I've had my eye on Bart Reiter banjos pretty much since day one. They have a reputation for being rugged, consistent, comfortable, and easy to adjust. I also note they vanish from the classifieds pretty fast, if it ever came to that.
The Buckbee seems like a solid value, and is probably what I *should* go with, considering how new I am.
However, I'm particularly enamored of the Galax. I like its classic appearance, and it has great crisp, punchy tone from what I can hear in the YouTube videos and such I've been able to find. I'm assuming it has the potential to give me more volume and clarity than the Buckbee. I tend to play with a pretty light touch, and do play with other instruments at times, so the added cut might be a good fit.
It's three hundred dollars more than a Buckbee, however, and I wonder if it might feel too loud and bright when playing alone, especially since I don't feel up to changing out the head to skin anytime soon, the Western Washington climate being what it is.
Any thoughts from those who own or have owned Reiters, Buckbee or Galax or otherwise? Alternatively, what other banjos in about the same price range should I also be considering?
FWIW, I'll likely end up doing mail order this time around unless something falls into my lap. I'm OK with that.
Texaspaul - Posted - 05/26/2015: 14:18:22
From experience buy the best for you. What you desire, both are fine instruments with a good rep. If the Bart Reeiter is what you have longed for don't buy something else. If you don't have the funds just now save awhile longer. Keep an eye here on the classified with cash on hand you can move quickly when something comes up and it will be patient.
I have bought several instrument not quite what I really wanted because I used money I had instead of waiting. It wasn't long before I wished I had saved a while longer for what I wanted first.
Ron Ortegel - Posted - 05/26/2015: 14:55:45
Well, Reiters are great banjos. You will like either one. The Galax, though, is a step above the Buckbee, having the Electric tone ring-
the one used in Whyte Laydie (Reiter) models. It is an exceptional banjo. Not too bright, depending on set up. Can you try Both or either?
emmabeth - Posted - 05/26/2015: 15:07:58
I could pretty much afford either/or--it's just that the Buckbee would save me some cash. On the other hand, the Galax just has a crunch (for last of a better word) I don't hear in the Buckbee. I do love that crunch.
BTW, what I meant by "any thoughts" is...for those of you who have or have had 'em, I'd love to hear about your Reiters! Tell me what you have, what you like, what you don't, what you'd do differently.
RWJonesy - Posted - 05/26/2015: 15:13:51
I am a happy owner of a Bart Reiter A flat scale Standard and once owned a Galax too. Everything you say is true about Reiter Banjos. They are well built professional grade instruments at an outstanding price...one of the reasons they don't last long in the classifieds. They also can be set up a myriad of ways so you can capture the sound you want. After "BAS" captured me through owning 30 or so varying beautiful banjos, I only own this one now. I am guessing you will happy with either one you choose. I added a few videos to show you the difference in sound between a Galax (on left) and my Standard(right). The Standard would sound very close to a Buckabee. Remember again that setup of head, bridge, tailpiece, and strings can change the tone of either instrument to capture the sound your looking for. Have fun in this process most importantly.
emmabeth - Posted - 05/26/2015: 16:05:46
Fairbanks, you rock! This is as close to a direct comparison as it gets. In some ways it complicates things, though. ;-) You get great but very different tone from both of these banjos. I like the note separation of the Galax, but boy, that Standard is sweet and old timey. Really suits your playing.
RV6 - Posted - 05/26/2015: 17:03:21
quote:
Originally posted by emmabeth
Fairbanks, you rock! This is as close to a direct comparison as it gets. In some ways it complicates things, though. ;-) You get great but very different tone from both of these banjos. I like the note separation of the Galax, but boy, that Standard is sweet and old timey. Really suits your playing.
I agree. Fairbank's videos are great! Based on the videos, I prefer the A Flat standard.
In fact, I have an Reiter A Flat with a Ren. head and a Reiter Buckbee with a goat skin head. Both are equipped with Chris Sands medium strings. The Buckbee has a Rickard T.P. and the A flat has a Fielding T.P. I liked my Buckbee so much that I bought the A Flat. (Everyone needs a spare, right?) My fiddle playing buddy likes the Buckbee with the hide head a bit more than my A flat. He's a real musician, I'm just a beginner (3 year) clawhammer player. I don't notice a lot of difference between the two but he says the Buckbee with the hide head has a bit more sustain. I really don't notice much difference though I do like the hide head.
I like the A flat due to it's shorter reach. It wouldn't seem that being one fret short would make much of a difference but, when you've got "bum shoulders" a little bit can make a difference. I've got a Pisgah walnut A scale walnut Dobson that's about to be delivered and, if it works out as well as I think it will, I'll be selling the Buckbee. (To keep the wife happy, we've agreed that two banjos is enough for anyone 
)
The Reiter's are really nice banjo's. Very playable necks and very well built. I think it's hard to go wrong with a Reiter.
RWJonesy - Posted - 05/26/2015: 17:22:12
Humble thanks to you both!
emmabeth - Posted - 05/26/2015: 17:46:54
I have another question, not tone related: how much of a difference in weight is there between the Buckbee/Standard and the Galax? I'd assume the Galax would be quite a bit heavier, but just how much?
And now you all have me wondering about the A Flat scale as well. Are they still pretty happy in G?
RWJonesy - Posted - 05/26/2015: 18:12:44
The Galax is a bit heavier but not a ton and yes the A flat plays well in G with no problems. They don't come up very often but I found one should you want to jump on it here:
sprucetreemusic.com/reiter.html
This A flat scale has a thinner 1/2 pot, making it lighter than mine with a 5/8 rim.....quite desirable!
Edited by - RWJonesy on 05/26/2015 18:18:13
jbalch - Posted - 05/26/2015: 18:18:19
Elizabeth:
The Galax will be noticeably heavier than a Buckbee because of a couple of differences:
1. the Galax rim is 3-ply maple 5/8" thick - The Buckbee rim is 2-ply maple 1/2" thick
2. The Galax has a Whyte Laydie tone ring - the Buckbee is s simple rolled brass hoop (1/4" round section).
Other differences: The Buckbee is sometimes available with Cherry or Walnut neck wood (or mahogany). The Galax is standard with a mahogany neck.
The Galax is a great banjo for playing in a sting band or ensemble. The WL: ring adds brightness and punch to really cut through in a mix with other instruments. With a mahogany neck, WL ring & bracket-shoe rim, it is a modern take on the original Fairbanks electric - the classic old-time string band banjo. I personally think the WL tone ring is the definitive, old time banjo. If I could have only one banjo - it would surely have a WL ring.
The Buckbee is a great sounding banjo too. It will hold up very well in any setting. It will respond well to your set-up choices (head type, bridge, etc.) The simple rim and tone ring will give it a little less brilliance and cutting-power (than a WL). But the tone will be fat and a little more woody. I think a banjo like this is an excellent choice for playing solo,in a duet (with a fiddle or other), or in a string band setting calling for a percussive, plunky rhythm.
I think you know ... can't beat Reiter banjos for value and performance. I have several that are my everyday players for stage & studio (and most importantly - they are the ones I pick up and enjoy here at home).
best wishes!
RV6 - Posted - 05/27/2015: 06:20:37
My Buckbee weighs 5.8 lbs., the A Flat 5.9 lbs. Both are mahogany and both have 1/2 rims.
My A flat plays well in G. I capo up for A and double D. I've never tuned the A flat up to A or D.
dpgetman - Posted - 05/27/2015: 06:56:31
I've noticed lately that there have been a good number of very nice banjos coming through the classifieds. Along with your Reiter choices (I own a Bacophone and its one of my favorite instruments), I would also suggest considering a few others of comparable quality made by members on this forum. Enoch, Ramsey, and Ron Grimsley (White Mountain) to name a few. Ron has a Whyte Laydie with internal resonator up right now that is particularly nice, banjohangout.org/classified/50418. If you've never considered a Bacon style tone ring, you might ought to, and there is a Ramsey up right now at a fair price with one that I keep looking at, banjohangout.org/classified/50688. But then you could also pick up that Galax and add a Bacon ring to it and get the best of both!
I've had only excellent experiences on the classified myself, picked up three banjos there and been very happy with the result. Good luck!
emmabeth - Posted - 05/27/2015: 12:00:17
Thanks for all the input and assistance! Much appreciated. I still have thinking to do, and a lot will depend on a) what turns up (if anything) in the classifieds, b) just when I get the cash in my grubby little paws, and c) how patient I manage to be once I have it. Elderly has a pretty good stock of new Reiters at the moment, too--we'll see how long that lasts.
I'll try to get back here to let people know what happens. And any additional opinions would be valued!
Edited to add that dpgetman is right that I shouldn't have blinders on with regards to other brands/makers. There are many find banjos in this world. I'll keep an open mind.
Edited by - emmabeth on 05/27/2015 12:12:23
RWJonesy - Posted - 05/28/2015: 06:51:39
RV, your A-flat has a half inch rim? Would you be interested in recording something so I could hear the difference between yours and my 5/8 inch rim? I see Bart builds them that way and didn't know he did so until I saw one such model at Spruce Tree Music.
emmabeth - Posted - 05/28/2015: 10:24:52
There's an A Flat at Elderly, too. I'm not sure, but it looks like it may have a thinner rim.
elderly.com/new_instruments/na...TANDA.htm
I'm curious: what tonal differences would one expect to hear from a 1/2" rim vs 5/8", at least on paper? Assuming all other setup details are the same.
RWJonesy - Posted - 05/28/2015: 14:44:16
Emmabeth, I too am curious about the tonal differences between the two rim thicknesses. Those pictures of the A-flat scale at Elderly are over 5 years old. Bart used to paint the back of his Standard rims black. Currently, he adds a nice walnut rim cap like the one at Spruce Tree Music.
Edited by - RWJonesy on 05/28/2015 14:45:26
emmabeth - Posted - 05/28/2015: 18:30:47
quote:
Originally posted by Fairbanks
Those pictures of the A-flat scale at Elderly are over 5 years old. Bart used to paint the back of his Standard rims black. Currently, he adds a nice walnut rim cap like the one at Spruce Tree Music.
Ah, I should have noted the "exact appearance may vary" disclaimer on the Elderly photos. Among other things. Duh...
Well, the Galax at Elderly sold, and I'm not seeing any others out there, new OR used, so depending on how long I'm willing to wait for one to appear, that may be off the table for now. I'm still not totally sure which tone ring I prefer anyway! I like them both. I suppose this is how people end up with more than one banjo...
In other news, this thread now has me really wondering about the short scale Standard. I spent some time today doing capo experiments with my current banjo to see if it would feel cramped if I tuned the A Flat to G and then capoed up, just in case I wanted to do that, but I think it'd be no problem. I wonder a little bit about having a short scale as a primary banjo, but then again...if it can be tuned to G, does it even matter? So hm.
I corresponded a bit with Spruce Tree this afternoon. They were very responsive and friendly.
RV6 - Posted - 05/28/2015: 18:45:24
quote:
Originally posted by Fairbanks
RV, your A-flat has a half inch rim? Would you be interested in recording something so I could hear the difference between yours and my 5/8 inch rim? I see Bart builds them that way and didn't know he did so until I saw one such model at Spruce Tree Music.
Yep, both my A Flat and Buckbee have 1/2" thick rims.
There's a few MP3's played with the A flat on music page (and one tune with the Reiter Buckbee).
darylcrisp - Posted - 05/29/2015: 02:18:37
Hi Emma
I recently picked up a very nice used Galax from Gregboyds. It weighs 6.5 lbs. It definitely has a heft to the pot, moreso than I'm used to with my Pisgah A scale(23" scale). The Pisgah is extremely comfortable, has a Dobson tonering, and larger fretwire than the Reiter. It weighs 5.2 lbs and feels weightless in the lap, balances really well.
I have had only A scales for the past 3 years, but I'm enjoying the Galax. This came with a fiberskin head, which I really like. I think that head really enhances the tone-having played a few Reiters with the Remo heads. I don't find it harsh or crashy, I roll a plain washcloth in a roll and stick it up front under the dowel rod and that's all I need for myself. It has a real nice rounded clear note quality-plays very easy and sounds really good even when played quietly.
The neck profile is very comfortable. This Galax is a little less wide than I'm used to(usually have had 1 3/8" nut widths and 2" where the neck meets the pot). My Galax has a 1 1/4" nut width and is 1 7/8" where the neck meets the pot. Its not been a problem adjusting.
I too listened to the Galax videos on youtube and always liked that extra ring they seemed to have. I'm well pleased with the purchase and the sound-I say if that's whats in your head stick it out and go for the Galax. You might email Bart himself and ask when/where he may be delivering another Galax-he tends to reply quickly on that type email question.
The Pisgahs are very nice as well, and along the same price range-just to throw more logs on the fire....................
keep us posted on what you end up with
d
RV6 - Posted - 05/29/2015: 07:28:49
quote:
Originally posted by darylcrisp
Hi Emma
I recently picked up a very nice used Galax from Gregboyds. It weighs 6.5 lbs. It definitely has a heft to the pot, moreso than I'm used to with my Pisgah A scale(23" scale). The Pisgah is extremely comfortable, has a Dobson tonering, and larger fretwire than the Reiter. It weighs 5.2 lbs and feels weightless in the lap, balances really well.
My Pisgah walnut Dobson A scale should be here next Tuesday Hot dog!
Emma, The Reiter A flat is one fret shorter than standard. It works very well tuned to G or Double C capoed up to A and double D. If I had to have one banjo, I would be very happy with the A flat. Left hand fingering is a bit better which should work out well for those with small or arthritic hands and/or bum shoulders. I'm betting the Pisgah A scale will be even better for me because I have both hand and shoulder problems that won't get any better, I imagine.
emmabeth - Posted - 05/29/2015: 11:49:00
Daryl, I dithered over that very Galax for quite awhile! Looked like a great deal, but the lack of a scoop gave me just enough pause that I held off. Glad to hear you're enjoying it. Thank you for the detailed weights--I like to know these things. And I did end up e-mailing Bart to ask what Galax banjos might be in the pipeline. We'll see what I hear back. They move so quickly!
Interested in hearing about the Pisgahs. They are way different, but I do like what they're doing, and they're playing in about the same kinda sorta intermediate price range. What are the necks like?
darylcrisp - Posted - 05/29/2015: 15:33:29
quote:
Originally posted by emmabeth
Daryl, I dithered over that very Galax for quite awhile! Looked like a great deal, but the lack of a scoop gave me just enough pause that I held off. Glad to hear you're enjoying it. Thank you for the detailed weights--I like to know these things. And I did end up e-mailing Bart to ask what Galax banjos might be in the pipeline. We'll see what I hear back. They move so quickly!
Interested in hearing about the Pisgahs. They are way different, but I do like what they're doing, and they're playing in about the same kinda sorta intermediate price range. What are the necks like?
E
i tend to play over the head, but lately(oddly enough after i've received the Galax), i've been playing over the neck. The action spec at the 22nd fret on this Galax is 1/8", its perfect for my playing style. at first i figured i would scoop the neck on this(its not that big a job), then after i played it a bit i figured i would do the top edge scoop only(look at a Nechville or Chris Cooles Vega), where you scoop the edge of the fretboard at a slant, kinda taking out the 4th string fret edge. but after a short bit of playing, this Galax sounds so nice, its pretty easy to have clean notes with a touch in that area-i don't think i will bother it. plus, i like having the extra frets as i intend to do some fingerstyle play later on. and i've watched Zepp in many of his video play a nonscoop neck and it sounds and looks fine.
i rechecked with a digital scale and the Galax is actually 6.8lbs. The Pisgah A(which ROCKS),in all cherry, is 5.2 lbs. Combined with the shortscale, the Pisgah seems very light and easy to balance. The Galax definitely has more heft, and that added neck length, while doesn't make it headstock heavy, you can tell the neck is "out there". but, another thing i've lately adapted to is playing with the pot more on my far right side thigh(Clawhammer Banjo from scratch, Dan Levenson), that puts the Galax more mid balanced for me and the additional neck length is no bother-in fact the added space between frets makes slides really nice.
i was looking hard at the Reiter A that Sprucetree has when i purchased the Galax-but i've always been drawn to the WL tonering when i hear it played, so i took the plunge and couldn't be happier-but i do want a Reiter A when i can afford it-looking to put up a Weber mandolin soon to sell to fund that purchase.
the other thing with the Pisgah A, there are only 15 frets if you get a scoop-you can order from them with a full fret model-Patrick Heavner is real easy to talk/work with. the necks on the Pisgah are more thick, but i find them extremely comfortable-the Galax and Pisgah differ in neck profile and width a lot, but both are very comfortable to my hands-i don't consider myself to have huge hands and i do play mandolin. i've always liked the tone of the Pisgahs, the Galax has a growl to it with the ring.
okay, so you really need one of each, thats all there is to it.
i live in Norton Va, if you are close enough you are welcome to meet up and play these guys.
d
darylcrisp - Posted - 05/29/2015: 16:35:33
My Pisgah walnut Dobson A scale should be here next Tuesday Hot dog!
Emma, The Reiter A flat is one fret shorter than standard. It works very well tuned to G or Double C capoed up to A and double D. If I had to have one banjo, I would be very happy with the A flat. Left hand fingering is a bit better which should work out well for those with small or arthritic hands and/or bum shoulders. I'm betting the Pisgah A scale will be even better for me because I have both hand and shoulder problems that won't get any better, I imagine.
i think you will love that Walnut Dobson A.
Pisgah makes a dandy A scale that is easy to play and rings true up and down-that Dobson neck and tone-ring just enhance the fun.
exceptional quality of build, and all of it made in the USA.
d
darylcrisp - Posted - 05/29/2015: 16:42:09
oh yea, to make matters more intense, here's a nice price on a new Pisgah A:
guitarrodeo.com/banjos/pisgah-...anjo.html
i know this shop well, having purchased a dozen guitars over the years from Jim Tordorf(owner). if you call'm up be sure to ask for Jim and tell him you read about me(lol).
that Pisgah has the custom headstock shape also.
Emma, in case you missed this when i posted it a while back, Rising Appalachia now has a Pisgah in the mix, will give you an idea of the tone:
youtube.com/watch?v=LQDwD_Opj9M
emmabeth - Posted - 05/29/2015: 16:59:49
I don't really have my heart set on A scale--just kind of like the idea of having a short scale eventually. The appealing thing about the Reiter Ab is that it's short enough to tune to A (which is where I spend most of my time anyway), but not so short it'd be floppy in G.
Incidentally, the same store you mentioned above also has a full scale Pisgah Maple Dobson at a bargain price. Great deal for someone!
All that said, after all is said and done and despite all the other suggestions and assistance everyone has provided (and I thank you!), the more I listen and think about it, the more I want a Galax. I'm going to see about getting put on the waiting list for one. So there you have it.
emmabeth - Posted - 05/29/2015: 17:02:43
But I wouldn't rule out having a Pisgah someday! Different flavors. Like chocolate and caramel. Or something.
darylcrisp - Posted - 05/29/2015: 17:06:52
E
that sounds like the solid plan-so many nice banjos these days to choose from, but i think it best to go with a strong gut check for that Galax.
you probably already know this, but Elderlys seem to be real tight with Reiter and have a long history of stocking them, so you could deposit for the next one-or check SpruceTree-i think they have a long history with Bart as well(and they appear to have one on order).
check MassStreetMusic and MusicEmporium, both stock Reiter and may have one coming soon.
Good luck, and excellent choice
d
emmabeth - Posted - 05/29/2015: 17:41:49
Got an e-mail back from Bart saying Elderly is next in the queue to get one. I'm going to call first thing tomorrow and see if they can put my name on it! Fingers crossed, and feeling purty excited.
emmabeth - Posted - 05/31/2015: 11:57:31
One final update, just in case anyone still cares. ;-) I have a deposit down on the next Galax to come in at Elderly. Hopefully it'll get to them in a few weeks, and to me a week or so after that.
Now I just need to spend the next three or four weeks becoming an exceptional banjo player so I can live up to it...
RWJonesy - Posted - 05/31/2015: 12:32:24
Your inevitably going to get better anyhow because you are going to want to hold and play your new Reiter Galax all the time! Get ready for endless hours of fun!
darylcrisp - Posted - 06/09/2015: 01:51:44
quote:
Originally posted by emmabeth
Oops. Took a bit of a left turn. But I think it'll be a fun trip!
banjohangout.org/group/bartrei...blog/8783
Hey Emma
I had picked up the used Galax at Gregboyds, if you remember. Excellent banjo and more than i expected it would be. I've been playing A scales for the past 2 years and with all this talk in your thread, i worked myself up to the idea to buy the A flat at elderlys since it was available. So, mine should be on the road soon as well.
Best of luck with yours(i had almost purchased it from Sprucetree before i picked up the Galax-lol).
d
emmabeth - Posted - 06/10/2015: 08:51:24
I'm still a little nervous just because I *haven't* spent a lot of time with shorter scale instruments, and it might have been a dumb move to go for one straight off. On the other hand, it's not like I need a lot of power and snap at the moment (mostly play by myself or with a small group of friends, none of whom plays anything particularly loud). And if the added comfort makes me more likely to pick it up and practice, well.
banjo bill-e - Posted - 06/10/2015: 09:43:41
It's not that much shorter and most like the difference. I'm betting that you love it. Congrats!
darylcrisp - Posted - 06/10/2015: 14:37:34
quote:
Originally posted by emmabeth
I'm still a little nervous just because I *haven't* spent a lot of time with shorter scale instruments, and it might have been a dumb move to go for one straight off. On the other hand, it's not like I need a lot of power and snap at the moment (mostly play by myself or with a small group of friends, none of whom plays anything particularly loud). And if the added comfort makes me more likely to pick it up and practice, well.
you will love it!
guarantee it. that A flat is only the "first fret space" chopped off, makes it a lot easier on the left arm in terms of reach, and honestly, i don't notice a difference in tone or anything else versus a 26"+ scale.
since i've been playing A scale builds, all things being near equal, i personally will take the shorter length every time.
my plans are to have the Galax and A flat for a while, see which works for me best, then sale the other. both being Reiters, i can easily swap the pot assembly out if i want the Galax pot on the shorter neck.
emmabeth - Posted - 06/18/2015: 11:00:02
Final chapter: I received my new Bart Reiter on Monday. After some minimal dialing in (both for it and for me), I really like it a lot. It's going to take me awhile (years! the rest of my life!) to really bring out its best, but it's so very nice to play--when I can bring myself to stop looking at it. I added some quick photos to my profile page. I think it has plenty of punch and volume, and will serve me well. Also really love the neck--both the shape and the comfort of the shorter reach. Now if only work didn't keep getting in the way of my getting in my 10,000 hours to master banjoing...
RWJonesy - Posted - 06/18/2015: 11:18:39
Yay.....glad your happy! When your up for it, post a video sometime? Final chapter? The story is just beginning! ;)
