Stikman - Posted - 09/08/2015:  06:54:44

Im currently playing around with my Orpheum banjo. Trying to tone down the brightness and sustain  a bit by switching out the remo frosted weatherking head with a new Fiberskyn head. Im not sure about the amount of tightness when installing this head.The nuts were slightly more than finger tight and could be loosened by hand but with some effort.Is that considered loose?? I read somewhere that Orpheums sound best with a real tight head (92-94) on a drum dial.I dont have one so im gunna have to wing it. Any advice??  Also,my tone ring is made up of a solid steel nickel plated tone ring that sits on copper brads.Did Orpheum also use brass rings in some of their banjos or are they all like mine??

grm405 - Posted - 09/08/2015:  07:25:37

Yes, very loose.  Look for Steve's coin and stick method as a simple start.  Think you will find it needs to be much tighter.

Gerry

Parker135 - Posted - 09/08/2015:  10:35:34

I'm really interested in this topic.  My Goodtime has become my "second" banjo for camping and such, and I've been experimenting with it to try to find some elusive woody/plunky sound.  Presently it has a Fiberskyn on it with a Rickard no-knot tailpiece.  Like you, one of my goals was also to get rid of some of the ringing (with minimal or no stuffing), and I found that the tighter the better with the Fiberskyn.  I stopped at about 92 on the drum dial, which is a little tighter than using the 10" ruler and quarter method.  It seems like the tighter head dampens out the sustain sooner, which is what I was after.  However, the bridge is now sitting higher with the tighter head, and the with lack of downward pressure from the original tailpiece, my action is higher than I'd like.  So now I'm thinking about a shorter bridge.  It's hard to know when to stop!  I've also had it set up with Sands nylon strings and a Bart Veerman bridge, which was fun, but it got a little harsh sounding for me.  Periodically I switch back to the stock setup and discover that it really wasn't that bad to start with if I just stuff a rag in it.

R.D. Eno - Posted - 09/08/2015:  14:38:19

Try a skin head. Goatskin works for me, though it's more absorbent than calfskin. Squirrel's probably better, but I can't find one big enough.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 09/08/2015:  14:49:40

I am not that familiar with Orpheum construction, although you banjo is extremely interesting. I have more association with closely related Paramounts.

I would be very surprised if that Orpheum was "too bright" . Maybe the fact that it is an archtop, which reduces the effective vibrating head diameter, might make it seem bright, but my rembrance of those was not that they were "bright" but that they had a distinctive sound, which was complex and not as overtly snappy as the archtop Gibson sound. The person who taught me a lot about how to play the banjo in the 60s had a Paramount converted by John D'Angelico, so the sound is in my head, and I can hear it to this day.

I would NOT TIGHTEN IT TO 93 or 94, and I would question the sanity of anyone who recommended that with a 100 year old banjo using a plastic head.

My tendency (if it was my banjo), would be to go with an amber head, and tighten it up to 88 and see what it sounded like. Then I might go up a little higher.

I would use a pretty light bridge, and since the Orpheum construction produces a complex and expressive sound, I might go with a bridge wood like walnut or mahogany (just a suggestion).

I don't know what sound you are after, so all my advice might be totally worthless cést la vie.  You will not be able to get this to sound like a flathead Mastertone, but it is a great banjo that can live a life of its own on it's own terms.

As an epilogue, I was at a "country festival", a year ago, and I heard a banjo sound. I recognized it immediately as a Paramount- after all those years. I walked around found the player, who was strolling around playing the banjo, and sure enough it was a Paramount. The last time I had seen that guy was at another festival, and he had an extremely loud Stelling.  Two different instruments.  I recognized the Paramount because of the distinctive timbre of the sound.

Enough said.

Paul R - Posted - 09/08/2015:  15:08:34

I've tinkered with the sound of my Orpheum for years. I have loosened the head and it sounds better to me, now. (I'd lossened it, tightened it, and then lossened it again.) It had a skin head, but that split, and all I could get at the time was plastic. I'd follow Kevin's advice, at least to start. The archtop diameter is problematic, certainly for a clawhammer sound that appeals to me, and the banjo takes quite a bit of tinkering to get right. The rim diameter also makes it difficult to find an off-the-shelf head, at least around here. One benefit for me is the shorter neck (with the fretboard extending over the head), which makes for more comfortable playing  Of course, that shorter neck moves the bridge closer to the tailpiece, which also affects the tone. I've found mine sounds fine playing two-finger thumb lead, no capo.

Dan Drabek - Posted - 09/08/2015:  15:08:44

I would agree with Ken that a renaissance head would probably be a perfect match for the old Orpheum. It would tone down any brashness , add a little richness and warmth compared to a standard frosted mylar head. (Think of smooth-riding touring tires on a vintage car as opposed to racing tires.) Then you can play with bridges in search of the tone quality you are looking for. But remember that the Orpheum was originally designed for jazz and orchestral use, so don't expect it to be a classic clawhammer banjo. It will have it's own unique sound.

DD

pollywaffle - Posted - 09/08/2015:  15:14:55

I prefer Ren Heads but a fibreskin might sound cool on your banjo. Is that the original design of the suspended tone ring or did someone tinker with it? Cool banjo man.

Ken LeVan - Posted - 09/08/2015:  15:28:37

For some reason many people call me Kevin. It has become annoying.

pollywaffle - Posted - 09/08/2015:  16:21:11

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken LeVan

 

For some reason many people call me Kevin. It has become annoying.

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Hmmm, Kevin Levan. Be a cool name for a fast food joint.... Maybe Kevin McLevan's tho.

Paul R - Posted - 09/08/2015:  16:36:26

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken LeVan

 

For some reason many people call me Kevin. It has become annoying.

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My apologies, Ken. Next time I'll be more careful.

Pollywaffle, the suspended tone ring is the original design. You'll find the patent number and year (1903) pressed into the inside of the rim.

mipake - Posted - 09/09/2015:  05:26:33

This is an interesting discussion for me. I am considering using an Orpheum plectrum as a sing along strummer played with guitars. my thoughts are to set it up as if I was playing clawhammer on it. Bronze string set tuning DGBD. No knot tailpiece and renn head. My idea is a nice complimentary sound with the guitars with out overpowering them or the singers. I have a Orpheum tenor setup for irish traditional and I like its sound.
comments?
thanks Mike

CEParagon124 - Posted - 09/09/2015:  06:43:08

My Clifford Essex Paragon is an Orpheum clone in regards to the arched top/tone ring design.

I have a Renaissance head on it, nylon strings and an Emerson Power bridge.

The Renaissance head is not quite right for this banjo, as the tension hoop cannot be pulled down far enough to keep the strings from bottoming out on it when fretting above the seventeenth fret, but I never play up there. Not yet, anyway.

I have no idea how tight the head might be, as I do not have a drum dial.

It has some high pitched overtones that I manage with a Havana Mute between the bridge and tailpiece and a rectangle of fairly rigid styrofoam between the dowel and the head at the neck side.

Still, it has some overtones.

I rebuilt and then sold an old openback  recently and put a medium thickness goatskin head on it. I liked that so much, I'm planning on putting one on the Paragon.

This photo predates the Emerson bridge and Havana Mute.

Charlie Noyes

Edited by - CEParagon124 on 09/09/2015 06:48:46

Ken LeVan - Posted - 09/09/2015:  15:35:48

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul R

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken LeVan

 

For some reason many people call me Kevin. It has become annoying.

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My apologies, Ken. Next time I'll be more careful.

Pollywaffle, the suspended tone ring is the original design. You'll find the patent number and year (1903) pressed into the inside of the rim.

 

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No need to apologize, it's not your fault. spell checkers often change "Ken" to Kevin" (why? I don't know). I have often become "Kevin Leven", which rhymes, and that makes more sense, although I don't think spell checkers are poetic - "My good buddy Kevin Leven makes good banjos that go to eleven".

It just gets under your skin after a point.  I shouldn't have said anything. My bad.

Paul R - Posted - 09/09/2015:  21:45:41

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken LeVan

 

quote:

No need to apologize, it's not your fault. spell checkers often change "Ken" to Kevin" (why? I don't know). I have often become "Kevin Leven", which rhymes, and that makes more sense, although I don't think spell checkers are poetic - "My good buddy Kevin Leven makes good banjos that go to eleven".

It just gets under your skin after a point.  I shouldn't have said anything. My bad.

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I completely understand and I feel there was a need to apologize - I really think it was carelessness on my part. I've had the same thing happen with my last name and it does, indeed, get under your skin. Not your bad. Perhaps it helps us to develop thicker skin.

Paul R - Posted - 09/09/2015:  21:55:46

What's your rim diameter? I can't find a head to fit mine. I'm still surprised that I found one after the original skin head split, and that was just dumb luck. I should have kept the hoop.