Hi everyone. I'm new to this forum. I've been lurking around for a long time, but now I have a question to ask you guys. I've seen this video of Pete Seeger playing "Lonesome Valley
My question is: during the first verse and chorus he's doing something that sounds like his classic Seeger Strum, but seems to me that there's something slightly different. Sounds like he's not brushing the strings at all. I've tried just skipping the "brush" part of the Seeger strum, but it doesn't sound quite like it. My question is simple: can anyone tell me what he's doing here exactly? From the close-up of his right hand I would say he's using three fingers, but I'm not sure. Can anyonehelp me?
(Sorry for my bad English, but I'm from Italy. I hope I made my question clear).
Yes, from the second verse on he's just whamming. But in the beginning, especially during the first G and D7 chords he's doing something different (or at least it's what seems to me).
I seldom disagree with Jan's sharp eye, but I think he's playing 2-finger INDEX lead at the beginning. In the closeup, his finger reaches all the way down for the 4th and 3rd string notes and his thumb stays on the 5th string. essentially the same as clawhammer, but picking up instead of down. Just basic I lead 2-finger without drop thumb. His right hand starts out braced on the head for the 2-finger, and you can easily see when hhe lifts his hand and begins his "Seeger strum".
That is probably it! I think i managed to figure it out (somehow). Thank you gouys for your precious help. I've been studying Pete Seeger style for a while and one of the things I love about is playing is that he always keeps it very simple but mixes a lot of different techniquest together and always matches the vocals perfectly. Since we're here, do you guys mind if I ask you about the opening lick in "Tzena tzena"?
To me it sounds like a 2-finger thumb lead (played very fast), hammering on with the left hand (some sort of foggy mountain roll ancestor). Am I right?
"Lonesome Valley" is a gem. I heard Pete do it in concert several times and it was always a show-stropper. One of Pete's great strengths was the way he played behind vocals. (The Tzena, Tzena, Tzena video is another perfect example). His back-up playing always complemented the vocals without intruding. Let's see exactly what he's doing on that "Lonesome Valley" tape:
1. He goes back and forth between three styles: two-finger picking, frailing and whamming.
2. The beginning lick is interesting. It does look like an index-finger lead, although you could do it just as easily with a thumb lead The key is this: the first beat is an open third string and the third beat is a hammer-on on the second fret of the fourth string. For what it's worth, I see him doing this: index finger on open third string for a whole beat; two eighth notes on open 1st string and then open 5th string; hammer-on on second fret fourth string, and then two eighth notes on open 1st string and then open fifth string.
3. He then moves to a D7 chord. While fingering the D7 chord , he does a pull off with his ring finger on the 2nd fret first string. It looks like he's frailing at this point.
4 He moves to a G chord and plays pull-offs on the 2nd fret first string. Still frailing.
5. He then plays some passing tones while frailing: G, F#, F, E, D C. The G is an open third string. The F#, F and E are fretted on the fourth string. He plays the D with his pinkie while fingering a C chord. The C note is the second string of the C chord.
6. When he goes back to the G chord, he throws in a few hammer-ons on the fourth string, second fret. Still frailing.
7. I can't hear what he does at the end of the first chorus because the band comes in, but it looks like he goes back to two-finger, index-lead picking.
"Lonesome Valley" is a gem. I heard Pete do it in concert several times and it was always a show-stropper. One of Pete's great strengths was the way he played behind vocals. (The Tzena, Tzena, Tzena video is another perfect example). His back-up playing always complemented the vocals without intruding. Let's see exactly what he's doing on that "Lonesome Valley" tape:
1. He goes back and forth between three styles: two-finger picking, frailing and whamming.
2. The beginning lick is interesting. It does look like an index-finger lead, although you could do it just as easily with a thumb lead The key is this: the first beat is an open third string and the third beat is a hammer-on on the second fret of the fourth string. For what it's worth, I see him doing this: index finger on open third string for a whole beat; two eighth notes on open 1st string and then open 5th string; hammer-on on second fret fourth string, and then two eighth notes on open 1st string and then open fifth string.
3. He then moves to a D7 chord. While fingering the D7 chord , he does a pull off with his ring finger on the 2nd fret first string. It looks like he's frailing at this point.
4 He moves to a G chord and plays pull-offs on the 2nd fret first string. Still frailing.
5. He then plays some passing tones while frailing: G, F#, F, E, D C. The G is an open third string. The F#, F and E are fretted on the fourth string. He plays the D with his pinkie while fingering a C chord. The C note is the second string of the C chord.
6. When he goes back to the G chord, he throws in a few hammer-ons on the fourth string, second fret. Still frailing.
7. I can't hear what he does at the end of the first chorus because the band comes in, but it looks like he goes back to two-finger, index-lead picking.
8. After that first chorus, he does whamming.
That's some extremely good explanation. Thank you very much! I totally agree with you. Unfortunately I discovered Pete just a couple of years ago (he's not very famous here in Italy) when I started to play the banjo. And, when I'm playing without my band, I always look up at his style for backing my (terrible) vocals. And today I learned a lot of new things to work on.
Love it: Pete in his prime! If you ever wondered about what fueled the banjo renaissance, there you go. He was also a fine man of principle. If the Lord seems too great a role to emulate, you could do worse than ask, "What would Pete do?"
"Lonesome Valley" is a gem. I heard Pete do it in concert several times and it was always a show-stropper. One of Pete's great strengths was the way he played behind vocals. (The Tzena, Tzena, Tzena video is another perfect example). His back-up playing always complemented the vocals without intruding. Let's see exactly what he's doing on that "Lonesome Valley" tape:
1. He goes back and forth between three styles: two-finger picking, frailing and whamming.
2. The beginning lick is interesting. It does look like an index-finger lead, although you could do it just as easily with a thumb lead The key is this: the first beat is an open third string and the third beat is a hammer-on on the second fret of the fourth string. For what it's worth, I see him doing this: index finger on open third string for a whole beat; two eighth notes on open 1st string and then open 5th string; hammer-on on second fret fourth string, and then two eighth notes on open 1st string and then open fifth string.
3. He then moves to a D7 chord. While fingering the D7 chord , he does a pull off with his ring finger on the 2nd fret first string. It looks like he's frailing at this point.
4 He moves to a G chord and plays pull-offs on the 2nd fret first string. Still frailing.
5. He then plays some passing tones while frailing: G, F#, F, E, D C. The G is an open third string. The F#, F and E are fretted on the fourth string. He plays the D with his pinkie while fingering a C chord. The C note is the second string of the C chord.
6. When he goes back to the G chord, he throws in a few hammer-ons on the fourth string, second fret. Still frailing.
7. I can't hear what he does at the end of the first chorus because the band comes in, but it looks like he goes back to two-finger, index-lead picking.
8. After that first chorus, he does whamming.
My only thought about Joe's assessment is the reference to frailing (aka clawhammer). In Joe's line #3, where he mentions frailing, I am fairly certain that what we see is Pete's very fast signature basic strum (known in parts of North Carolina, where he first saw the banjo played, as up-picking). He is picking up with his index finger on one string, then brushing down across several strings with middle or ring finger and then ringing the fifth string with the thumb. Frailing or claw hammer hits the first beat of bump-dit-ty with a downward stroke of the back of the index or middle finger nail. I don't think that is what he is doing anywhere in the song. I see very fast up-picking (aka Seeger's "Basic Strum" showing up throughout the entire song.
Yes, Pete was a master of many styles, which he would switch around at will as the song required.
I totally agree with you. Unfortunately I discovered Pete just a couple of years ago (he's not very famous here in Italy) when I started to play the banjo. And, when I'm playing without my band, I always look up at his style for backing my (terrible) vocals. And today I learned a lot of new things to work on.
