timacn - Posted - 06/07/2016:  13:18:42

Has anyone ever heard of anybody removing the ball bearings and springs from a Gibson Mastertone ball bearing arch top and using the banjo with just the original rim and arch top?  Any downside to doing this?  Was it ever a common modification?

As always, thanks.

Bronx banjo - Posted - 06/07/2016:  13:34:51

Yes, I played a banjo like that once. Wasn't too impressed with the tone, but I don't like ball bearings, at least not for bluegrass. I also remember hearing someone talking about installing the tone ring upside down for a more flathead type of sound. That was along time ago. Has anyone else heard of that?

timacn - Posted - 06/07/2016:  13:50:54

The best banjo I ever heard was John Farmer's (Red Lion, PA) prewar Mastertone banjo.  Somebody once told me it was a ball bearing arch top with the tone ring flipped upside down.  (I don't know if that story was apocryphal.)

Lou Bourbon - Posted - 06/07/2016:  15:11:23

I believe Sullivan sells a flathead tonering specifically cut to convert the Ball Bearing tonering.

dhergert - Posted - 06/07/2016:  16:27:32

Yes, in fact a number of sources sell pre-fit conversion rings for the later '25 and '26 rims, flathead rings that don't require mods to the rims.  The early '25 Ballbearing rims have a slightly different dimension that doesn't fit most conversion rings.

And yes, people do turn the ballbearing tone ring upside down sometimes.  I haven't done that with mine so I can't address the difference in tone.

Using the Ballbearing tone ring without the springs and ballbearings means that the tension hoop will go down another 1/8th of an inch or so as you tighten the head.  So the tension hoop might be too low even with a high crown head.  In my opinion, if you're going to use the ballbearing tone ring, using it with the springs, washers and ballbearings as it was designed will produce the best tone.  The springs under tension add a remarkable, almost hypnotic vibrance to the tone that no other Mastertone design produces.

Also, with a good setup, Ballbearing Mastertones do just fine with bluegrass.  They are only slightly less loud than a cast tone ring Mastertone, their high range is just as striking as a flathead, their bass projection is great, and they do have that pre-war Gibson Mastertone tone.

And if you're looking for a lighter Mastertone than the later years' cast tone ring Mastertones, Ballbearing Mastertones weigh about 3 pounds less.

-- Don

Oldtwanger - Posted - 06/07/2016:  17:53:37

quote:

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Originally posted by timacn

 

The best banjo I ever heard was John Farmer's (Red Lion, PA) prewar Mastertone banjo.  Somebody once told me it was a ball bearing arch top with the tone ring flipped upside down.  (I don't know if that story was apocryphal.)

 

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That's exactly what it was - FON 8444-1 with a five-string conversion neck by Eric Schulte, Malvern PA.

revellfa - Posted - 06/07/2016:  19:52:30

Played a Granada BB without the balls and springs. Sounded awful.

Ball Bearing Gibsons are some of my favorite banjos when set up properly. They do sound quite a bit like a flathead in the higher ranges and can be fairly loud.

Here's a video of my Style 4 conversion. It was very loud but tapped out in the volume department at a certain point. But the tone. Wow! Nothing is more tone-ful than a Ball Bearing.

VIDEO: Ball Bearing Gibson Style 4 (click to view)

lightgauge - Posted - 06/08/2016:  04:10:55

I bought a bb conversion a few years ago with a Sullivan ring in it. It has a very dry and old sound. I played it for a few months after getting it and switched to a converted 11 pot I finished. I still hope to find a bb ring setup at a reasonable price someday and give it a try. The last couple I have seen were 400 or so and just not that curious. It is too good a banjo to just keep sitting in the case. I played a bb at Lowe's last year and it was one of my favorites there.

Fathand - Posted - 06/08/2016:  05:04:53

I have a 1925 converted TB3 BB, I have played it with the tone ring upright and flipped and it sounds great either way all balls and springs intact. A friend has a 1925 RB3 that some well meaning person removed the balls from. I tried it once and was not impressed although there may have been other issues. You do not have to remove the balls to flip the ring, it sits on the balls either way.

Also, a Ball Bearing Gibson does not use an "Archtop" tone in ring in the sense of a 40 hole archtop as came out in 1927 thought they may look like it from the outside.