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mike gregory - Posted - 07/30/2016: 08:11:49
Stopped in Blue Flame Music, down near the intersection of S. 27th & Edgerton, in Milwaukee.
Guy who runs it is a friend of mine.
Had a box of 10-inch drum heads sitting on the Bargain table.
So I said "Give me $20 worth of those."
I now have 24 heads, for which I must now think up a quick, cheap way to make 2 dozen bodies.
I'm thinking of slicing sections from PVC sewer pipe, but first I've got to see how close the pipe is to 10 inches, OUTSIDE diameter.
Suppose I could get 10 inch pipe, slice a bit out, and rejoin the ends, with a bit of material overlapping the ends on the inside.
OR glue up laminates of scrap Formica which I have, using a 10-inch brake drum as a mold.
Edited by - mike gregory on 12/19/2016 15:03:14
Fathand - Posted - 07/30/2016: 09:21:24
I like the idea of plastic pipe but pipe is usually sold by inner diameter.Tubing is sold by outer diameter. Have you been watching this thread?
banjohangout.org/topic/320689/2/#4069300
Do you have a ring roller? Roll aluminum or steel bar stock into rims?
TLG - Posted - 07/30/2016: 09:21:27
You are Mr. Innovation !
PVC pipe has been done before. I don't know why all the pipe companies can't get their act together & make pipe sizes of banjos , a full 8", 10", 11", 12",,,, what are they thinking !
On eBay, some China outfit is selling quantities of ukulele necks & fingerboards, you could corner the market on banjo ukes.
Have fun Mike,
Tommy
Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 07/30/2016: 11:37:42
How about taking a plastic (or even metal) 5 gallon bucket and cutting it into rings? They're a bit over 10" and of course they're usually tapered slightly but you could overlap the ends like you were talking about with the PVC pipe. I don't know how they would sound but it's often easy to find empty ones if you don't already have some.
Zach
mike gregory - Posted - 07/30/2016: 12:17:22
I know a guy owns a restaurant, has 5-gallon empties every week.
May as well try one, although they may be TOO flexible.
Meanwhile, back at the Secret Underground Lab, here's what ten-inch PVC looks like, after it's been sawed (sawn?) so that it will fit INSIDE the 10 -inch head.
rmcdow - Posted - 07/30/2016: 12:45:02
If you are careful with the joint, and overlay the joint with thin pvc sheet, you can use PVC glue to but joint that sawn part together, or take a section of pipe that you sawed out and put it on the inside, get ready with clamps, apply the primer then the glue, and clamp it together. I'd leave it clamped for 8 - 12 hours. If you have the neck coming in at that point, it will add extra reinforcement to the neck-pot joint. Good luck with this.
TW Metals, 800-545-5000, will cut aluminum tubing to short (banjo height) lengths for you. They have a selection of wall thicknesses.
Edited by - rmcdow on 07/30/2016 12:45:39
mikehalloran - Posted - 07/30/2016: 15:47:10
I have a few ideas but, knowing that you are the King of Inventive Cool, I imagine that you already have a goof idea how you will proceed on necks and hardware etc.
Personally, I would be looking at a 19" scale that could be tuned as a tenor or baritone uke depending on the strings.
I can hardly wait to see what You will do with these. It's bound to be fun!
rudy - Posted - 07/30/2016: 16:01:25
quote:
Originally posted by mike gregory
I know a guy owns a restaurant, has 5-gallon empties every week.
May as well try one, although they may be TOO flexible.
Meanwhile, back at the Secret Underground Lab, here's what ten-inch PVC looks like, after it's been sawed (sawn?) so that it will fit INSIDE the 10 -inch head.
If you find a compatible glue then it would be a simple matter to cut a second entire layer to fit INSIDE the outer layer and position the joint 180 degees from the outer joint. This would make a nice solid and reasonably thick rim to support your tightening hardware.
mikehalloran - Posted - 07/30/2016: 16:55:10
A compatible glue is easy. Look in the plumbing supply dept of any hardware store.
mike gregory - Posted - 07/30/2016: 19:49:14
Mr. O'H, I do believe Mr. Rudy is talking about compatible glue for the BUCKETS, since I was suspecting that the BUCKETS might be too flexible.
Mr. McDow, if one uses the glue you recommend AND the screws on the PVC, I see no need for clamps.
Wouldn't the SCREWS hold it together tightly enough, while the glue sets?
But, even though I am frequently lucky, or even FREAKISHLY lucky to end up rather often with a playable instrument, I appreciate suggestions from anyone who has ever built or repaired ANYTHING even remotely resembling the parts for this Noble Experiment.
Dave1climber - Posted - 07/30/2016: 20:10:43
Mike
If you use PVC primer and PVC glue, with band clamps you might be able to make a nice neat but joint after cutting the pipe. If you can make it work, you may not need the inner lap.
rmcdow - Posted - 07/30/2016: 21:21:33
Dave has a good idea with the band clamps. I've worked with 8" clear PVC pipe before (now that would be a cool banjo, with a clear or renaissance head), and I'm not sure just a but joint would hold up to the stress of the pull after cutting out the piece to make the outside exactly 10", as it appears you have done.
If you want to get really inventive, you could get a coupling joint, turn a short piece off the end, and glue it in the right place on the rim. Then you could use a flange instead of shoes. Watch out Gibson, here comes the Gregory.
I think this is going to be a pretty interesting banjo.
Edited by - rmcdow on 07/30/2016 21:35:42
Dave1climber - Posted - 07/30/2016: 21:32:52
At one time clear PVC primer and PVC glue could be found. A slice of that pipe could be glued to the out side of the rim to provide a shoulder for a flange if wanted. Arrange the gap for the neck 180 degrees from the but joint, no inside lap necessary.
Just random thoughts.
rmcdow - Posted - 07/30/2016: 21:37:16
I think you can still get the clear PVC primer; been a while since I have seen it though. Everybody carries the purple stuff now.
rudy - Posted - 07/31/2016: 05:32:05
You could also forget the glue altogether and simply hold the ends of the cut together by spanning it with a block that would also serve as a tailpiece mount, adding a screw to each side of the joint. You'll need to have something at the end to hold the strings, so you might as well make it do double duty.
mike gregory - Posted - 07/31/2016: 05:51:28
Since I am going to work up a prototype, and then make ten or 20 more, I welcome ALL these suggestions.
The double duty block sounds like a good idea, since the fewer pieces, the lower the cost AND the less labor.
Meanwhile:
An embroidery hoop may serve as a tension hoop.
And BHO member Lorna "Vintagewells" ( a genius at improv banjo making) clued me in on how BICYCLE SPOKES make darn good J hooks.
As to calling it "The Gregory"- - -
Maybe not.
Since it's made in GRAFTON, Wisconsin, how about calling it the GRAF-TUNE ?
rudy - Posted - 07/31/2016: 05:59:34
Just add an "E" to the end and it'll be a "GRAF-TONE".
wizofos - Posted - 07/31/2016: 07:07:36
Spray paint the rims or put on some wood tone self stick contact paper. If you use Rudy's through neck you get a simple 2 piece assembly.
mike gregory - Posted - 07/31/2016: 09:00:05
Graf-Tone sounds like a better name.
And it might be the perfect Entry Level banjo for Blue Graff music!
Since self-stick contact paper is CHEAPER THAN spray paint, and less work, that's good advice.
rmcdow - Posted - 07/31/2016: 09:14:42
If anyone has dropped a manufactured home trailer in a lot near you, and it is thoroughly abandoned, get a 10" brake drum from it, then using PVC cement, you can put some thin veneer on the outside of the 10" pipe, and have something historical.
wizofos - Posted - 07/31/2016: 10:29:21
Zither pins ($.37 each plus $5 wrench for each instrument) for tuning and fishing line strings. I will trade you enough fishing line for strings for a drum head.
If you use contact paper, get some with flowers and butterflies.
FXHERE - Posted - 07/31/2016: 12:39:55
Mike, you have to make sure the PVC is quatersawn as it produces the best tone.
mike gregory - Posted - 07/31/2016: 13:21:13
Progress, of a sort.
Made some J hooks out of bicycle spokes, used screw eyes for brackets.
Will need little pre-drilled blocks on the INSIDE, to cover the pointy ends of the screws!
mike gregory - Posted - 07/31/2016: 14:01:59
quote:
Originally posted by wizofos
Zither pins ($.37 each plus $5 wrench for each instrument) for tuning and fishing line strings. I will trade you enough fishing line for strings for a drum head.
If you use contact paper, get some with flowers and butterflies.
Since some of these are going to be rented out to beginners, I wonder if zither pins will work, for THEM.
They're not used to tuning ANYTHING.
I have plenty of fishing line.
You going to be in Grafton any time soon?
I can GIVE you a drum head.
mike gregory - Posted - 07/31/2016: 15:48:30
And the neck begins!
mike gregory - Posted - 08/01/2016: 11:08:26
And now the neck has the cheapest possible geared tuners (PING 2640, about $19 a set retail).
Plus frets cut from the stainless steel reinforcing strips in discarded windshield wipers.
This is not the FINAL design, but it's teaching me as I go!
Since it represents about ten hours of work, and since people are marching around saying that $15 and hour SHOULD BE considered the lowest possible wage, this banjo -IF priced at that level- is going to have to be priced at almost twice the price of the Piece Of Crud banjos being sold at places like Sprawl-Mart.
However, I shall price it at what I think it should sell at.
In a day or 2, I should have a sound file, for the delight of all the DIY banjo fans on the hangout.
Well, if not ALL, at least SEVERAL.
Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 08/01/2016: 13:37:25
Very nice work. You can get geared guitar style tuners for about $7.50 for a set of 6 with free shipping last I knew on eBay. I use them exclusively for mountain dulcimers, since they won't get used much anyway.
Zach
mike gregory - Posted - 08/01/2016: 16:03:49
Yeah, I suppose I should get my head out of the 1950's and get an e-bay account.
mikehalloran - Posted - 08/01/2016: 20:11:01
These tuners list for $9.95 a set. Two sets fit three 4-string banjos. I'm not sure if PING still makes them but the quality is decent. I've used them on many low end guitars where the original units disintegrated. Quantity pricing is probably negated by postage but it's available. Any Saga dealer can get them for you—if you have none local, I can hook you up.
sagamusic.com/products/product...em=F-2219
Zachary Hoyt - Posted - 08/02/2016: 05:54:13
Here is an even cheaper set than what was available last time I was buying. There are also slot head tuners for as low as $3.82 a set with free shipping.
ebay.com/itm/Neewer-6pcs-Guita...wSv1XkKGl
I think I can order tuners and have them sent to you if you'd rather not open an ebay account.
Zach
mike gregory - Posted - 08/02/2016: 07:11:45
MINER SETBACK
Umm, I mean MINOR setback!
Thought I'd save time by using a pre-printed paper fingerboard scale. poke an awl through at each fret mark, and draw the frets from that.
But it was the scale for my short-necked COOKIE TIN banjos, so I had to pull off all the frets, re-sand the fingerboard, and will now use the metric ruler and the StewMac calculator, to get 'em right.
If we learn by our mistakes, I otter be a [expletive deleted] GENIUS by now!
mike gregory - Posted - 08/02/2016: 12:08:33
OK, re-set all the frets.
Since they were glued on, not sawed in, no major damage.
Head, with bridge ON, pushes down WAAAYYY too much.
Planning to add more J hooks.
But it DOES play.
Will post sound file, when the added hooks have tightened the head.
mike gregory - Posted - 08/02/2016: 19:05:53
Added six more bicycle spokes, head is a bit tighter, sound is a bit better.
Maybe I can post a sound file tomorrow.
wizofos - Posted - 08/02/2016: 19:59:18
Instead of using the wooden hoops why not get some 1/4" or 1/8" by 1/2" aluminum bar, should be able to get it at the hardware store, bent in a circle using a band clamp and use a splice plate with rivets like like Rudy shows on his web site. Drill the holes for the rivets then re-drill with a larger bit to countersink the rivet heads.
I was also thinking that you could use thin slices of the pipe maybe 1/2" wide. Pipe that size should have a wall thickness about 1/4 inch. Glue up layers of pipe wall as a flange to use instead of your eye hooks. If you are using standard Schedule 40 pipe the glue should hold it tight enough. There is going to be a gap but if you put it behind the neck it will not show. A little sanding and spray paint will cover up the glue. If you have seen an old resotone, harmony or any resin rim you will get the idea.
If this doesn't make sense give me a call tomorrow morning after 8 am.
rudy - Posted - 08/03/2016: 08:00:55
quote:
Originally posted by mike gregory
MINER SETBACK
Umm, I mean MINOR setback!
Thought I'd save time by using a pre-printed paper fingerboard scale. poke an awl through at each fret mark, and draw the frets from that.
But it was the scale for my short-necked COOKIE TIN banjos, so I had to pull off all the frets, re-sand the fingerboard, and will now use the metric ruler and the StewMac calculator, to get 'em right.
If we learn by our mistakes, I otter be a [expletive deleted] GENIUS by now!
Mike, Here are 2 pdfs that you can save and print out any time you need fret layouts for scale lengths between 22-1/2" to 26-3/16".
Edited by - rudy on 08/03/2016 08:02:30
mike gregory - Posted - 08/03/2016: 08:54:42
Thank you, Rudy!
Before I opened it, I wondered how the heck my printer would make a piece of paper THAT long!
But, seeing it puts it all into the realm of reality.
wizofos - Posted - 08/03/2016: 14:28:09
Sounds great Mike. With the through neck design you can probably use steel strings as well without any damage.
mike gregory - Posted - 08/06/2016: 09:24:52
Just got a couple of ten inch aluminum cooking pots from rummage sales.
Figure 2 rims per pot,
Pictures as progress happens.
Dave1climber - Posted - 08/13/2016: 05:09:49
Much more better!
mike gregory - Posted - 12/15/2016: 18:05:41
Drove about 90 miles to Omro, Wisconsin, and bought myself a 14 foot hunk of ten inch PVC sewer pipe.
After Jan 1th, I plan to make a LOT of ten inch GRAFTONE banjos.
mike gregory - Posted - 12/19/2016: 15:06:30
Here's the first of the banjo bodies made from the green 10-inch sewer pipe I bought (new) on Thursday.
They rough cut it into 3 pieces, so I could get in inside the Chevy HHR.
But that made it hard to get one EVENLY cut piece for starters.
Anyway, here we go:
