nosepickerbob - Posted - 11/24/2016:  14:02:15

I was playing this morning and I heard a creak while I was picking up the neck.

I stopped playing and I tapped the head. Nothing happened.

I then started playing again and !boom! a huge snapping noise came from the head and collapsed my bridge and in the process almost made me soil my britches badly.

I put the banjo down and look at the head and by the left hand side of the neck there was a big tear along the brackets.

This was a Remo Made in U.S.A. head I installed about 3.5 months ago and everything was fine.

All the brackets were tightened evenly and I had it set at about Bb - B.

I don't know what happened to it.

If anybody knows of a brand other than 5 Star that I can crank down without worrying about it breaking,

Please let me know I'm desperate.

Thanks,

Nose.

deestexas - Posted - 11/24/2016:  14:51:51

Too tight.... G# or A, but not B

TOMCAT - Posted - 11/24/2016:  15:20:03

Yeah your to tight at b. I had one pop like that once while playing. I too had to check my shorts😲

Fathand - Posted - 11/24/2016:  16:00:06

Unless you have an arch top, B is too high. Also make sure the inside edge of your tension hoop has no sharp edges.

A guy I know had a bass fiddle that the bridge used to fall down on, that'll make you jump.

Jim Britton - Posted - 11/24/2016:  19:47:53

Too tight. "Power her"...

Rawhide Creek - Posted - 11/24/2016:  20:37:40

My questions are:

1.  How do you know you had it tightened to Bb or B?

2.  Why did you tighten it to Bb or B?

You're going to get one or more recommendations about a coin-and-straightedge technique I first saw demonstrated by Ty Piper in 1976.

nosepickerbob - Posted - 11/24/2016:  21:19:25

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rawhide Creek

 

My questions are:

1.  How do you know you had it tightened to Bb or B?

2.  Why did you tighten it to Bb or B?

You're going to get one or more recommendations about a coin-and-straightedge technique I first saw demonstrated by Ty Piper in 1976.

---

I scratch the head down from the bridge in a swift motion and listen to the note. ( youtu.be/Q_xO_wHnAz8?t=4m25s)

I tightened the head to Bb because it sounded really good.

My 4th string was real deep and growly and all my notes were separated with good sustain.

I didn't think it would break because I've heard of people tuning their heads to Bb with no problems.

Thanks,

Nose.

Edited by - nosepickerbob on 11/24/2016 21:21:09

desert rose - Posted - 11/24/2016:  21:37:28

I have to agree thats way to tight, if you REALLY like the sound like that... there are other ways to get there, In the old days ( g ) the sixtys and seventys when loud harsh and in your face was in style, they would tighten the heads all the way and get the lightest bridge possible and sand it until i was like a razor blade on top

Scott

Edited by - desert rose on 11/24/2016 21:39:39

Rawhide Creek - Posted - 11/24/2016:  21:46:05

Yep, I remember thinning a bridge with sandpaper . . . 

nosepickerbob - Posted - 11/24/2016:  22:21:21

But ,

I like Earl's 50's setup,

Super tight head, heavy bridge, light strings, and high action.

I think this setup brings out that classic Earl tone and sounds real good.

It gives it that pop when picked hard and that mellow tone when you pick soft.

I wonder if there is any substitute to a calfskin head that can be tightened and handle it.

Thanks,

Nose.

mijknahs - Posted - 11/24/2016:  22:57:50

Marc Pruett said when he played Earl's banjo it was tuned to Bb. Marc said it sounded great. I think you just had a defective head. Try another one. They don't make 5 Stars anymore. Remo is the only game in town unless you want to try calfskin (they sound really great). If you want to go for Earl's 50's sound that was all calfskin.

banjonews.com/2011-10/marc_pruett.html

BNL: About banjo heads. Do you listen to and tune the pitch of the head?

MP: I do. About 35 years ago, My friend Steve Sutton showed me how drummers tune drum heads, and once I figured out how to tap tune the heads, I did that. The one time I actually got to visit with Earl in his home in 1982 we were talking about how tight Earl liked to keep his banjo head. Earl took his thumbs and pressed into the head, and by the feel of it he knew how tight it was. When I showed him the tap tuning I did on my banjo, he looked at me and said, “Why, it does make a note!”

BNL: Tell me how you do that.

MP: Well, you have to dampen the strings, and you can’t tap in the middle of the head, you have to tap next to the tension hoop, with your fingernail or with a pick, and it makes a musical note. Lots of people like their head tuned to G sharp or A but I like mine around B flat.When I played Earl’s Granada in 1982 when it sounded so fabulous, it was tuned right at B flat.

nosepickerbob - Posted - 11/24/2016:  23:40:07

Wow!

I didn't even know Earl had his at Bb.

I just thought it sounded good.

I was thinking of getting a medium crown remo instead of a high crown like I had on my banjo, so I could tighten it without it bottoming out so soon.

Would a fiberskyn head be good?

Thanks for that.

Nose.

mijknahs - Posted - 11/24/2016:  23:46:49

Medium crown is good. Fiberskyn not so much (for what you want). 

GStump - Posted - 11/25/2016:  04:02:13

I can for sure remember reading in several articles over the years - Earl (at times) had a "relatively loose calfskin head." Taking that literally, I find it hard to believe that the (skin) head would have been tightened to B flat. No doubt he experimented with different setups, as his tastes might have changed, and the equipment, or the way things were made changed (such as heads changing to plastic at some point) or what have you. If not mistaken one of those articles or places I can remember reading this was in the section on Earl, in Trischka's and Wernick's great book, Masters of the five string Banjo. However, even if the time period in question would have been the early to mid 50's, I think that would have still been a calfskin head. Later on, Earl switched to plastic. There are folks here who can probably nail down the time when Earl likely switched, so chime in. At that time he would have or could have tightened the head quite a bit more. Earl - the one, the only....

Jim Britton - Posted - 11/25/2016:  04:29:13

Robert, I don't have a lot of experience with "tight" 5-Star heads but I would almost be certain it could stand ""B" or for sure, "Bb". Depending on the tone you desire you can definitely do some other things to achieve this goal. As Desert Rose" said and others a thin bridge helps. Also a very low tail piece is helpful as well. As far as Earl is concerned there is no doubt at times his head was well above "A"... Some banjos can handle that and some can't. I have had several that the heads were at "Bb" and there was plenty of depth remaining. 

steve davis - Posted - 11/25/2016:  04:50:46

You'll never bust a head when using the dime/6" ruler tension.

 

 

 

desert rose - Posted - 11/25/2016:  07:39:49

Remember Earls setup was a match to his RIGHT HAND, all the setup in the world wont give you his sound without his right hand to match

Scott

Dan Drabek - Posted - 11/25/2016:  08:00:49

Yes, we did all of those things back in the 60's and 70's to get that super-bright sound.

One of the most important things we did was to carefully remove the frosting from the heads. There were no frost-free banjo heads being made back then, so we would scrape it off with a single edge razor blade, or scrub it off with lacquer thinner.

Nowadays we have a much wider choice of heads than we did back then. They make clear heads, which give the brightest tone, but look awful IMHO. They also make "cloudy" heads, which look much more like what we used to end up with when removing the frosting.

I have no idea what note we would tune to, but I do know we would flirt with breaking the heads. I don't know whether a frost-free head will strike a higher or lower note than a frosted one at the same tension. Maybe someone here knows.

DD

Helix - Posted - 11/25/2016:  08:14:05

I"m sorry your head popped, my ears pop when I get on a plane, OH, you mean the banjo head? Too tight, dude. Like when your ears are ringing, STOP taking the aspirin.

nosepickerbob - Posted - 11/25/2016:  10:07:37

This is the sound I'm kinda shootin' for:youtube.com/watch?v=t1YhXI7CX98

​The tone is fat and full sounding but with low sustain and quick decay of notes.

It sounds almost like the banjo is running out of air but its being pushed to run.

Nose.

Edited by - nosepickerbob on 11/25/2016 10:14:58

steve davis - Posted - 11/25/2016:  14:05:40

No need to tighten it beyond A.A lot of lows are lost after that.

mijknahs - Posted - 11/25/2016:  16:00:02

quote:

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Originally posted by steve davis

 

No need to tighten it beyond A.A lot of lows are lost after that.

---

Not really. Depends on the banjo. That may be true for a lot of new banjos though. 

hdterry - Posted - 11/25/2016:  18:23:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

You'll never bust a head when using the dime/6" ruler tension.

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Edited by - hdterry on 11/25/2016 18:24:38

steve davis - Posted - 11/25/2016:  20:07:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by mijknahs

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis



 

No need to tighten it beyond A.A lot of lows are lost after that.

 

---

 

Not really. Depends on the banjo. That may be true for a lot of new banjos though. 

 

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I've found it to be true on Gold Stars,Cox and my '29 conversion.

Of course anyone can run their head as tight as they want..

Edited by - steve davis on 11/25/2016 20:08:34

steve davis - Posted - 11/25/2016:  20:10:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by hdterry

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

 

You'll never bust a head when using the dime/6" ruler tension.

---

 

is that a strip of bacon? I'm confused!

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I don't get the bacon part...Bacon banjos?

 

 

 

Tom Berghan - Posted - 11/25/2016:  20:12:42

I feel your pain

Banjophobic - Posted - 11/25/2016:  20:58:50

The generally accepted range of head tensions between G and A are just that, generalizations. Some banjos can go outside these tension and sound great. The real thing to watch out for with using tensions approaching and surpassing B is the stresses that it puts not only on the head, but the components. A head is a cheap thing to replace, but tension hoops, flanges, hooks ad nuts are not. 

Some of the tone you hear in Earls banjos through the year is a combination of the banjo, the way it's  set up, the recording technology used at the time and more importantly, Earl. Of course if your banjo sound great to you at BB and you don't see any structural issues, go for it.  Sound is subjective and so is set up. 

Edited by - Banjophobic on 11/25/2016 21:00:40

Tom Berghan - Posted - 11/25/2016:  22:07:41

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

 

No need to tighten it beyond A.A lot of lows are lost after that.

---

I agree with that. In my personal experience going higher than A (give or take a little - I'm not saying precisely "A"), the banjo starts sounding pinched and the lower frequencies start disappearing that's what my ears and taste tell me. Just like Goldilock's porridge, we want it just right! Not too loose and not too tight! :-). And I hate having a head rip. I have experienced it twice. But only with hide. 

Jim Britton - Posted - 11/26/2016:  05:04:57

The first step to get in the "ballpark" of that sound would be to tune the banjo up a half-step to G#. I'm not sure but I'd assume that's a tight hide head due to the time period...maybe not. The biggest contributing factor is EARL.

---

Originally posted by nosepickerbob

 

This is the sound I'm kinda shootin' for:youtube.com/watch?v=t1YhXI7CX98

​The tone is fat and full sounding but with low sustain and quick decay of notes.

It sounds almost like the banjo is running out of air but its being pushed to run.

Nose.

---

hdterry - Posted - 11/26/2016:  06:08:07

It looks like a ruler, a dime, and a strip of bacon.