Joe the banjo guy - Posted - 04/26/2017:  08:01:41

I'm a 100% convert to hide head for my 12'' open back.  As they say, no zealot like a convert.  Just curious if anybody has put hide heads on resonator banjos to be used in a 3 finger style, and if so, how'd it go?  

steve davis - Posted - 04/26/2017:  08:05:46

My recorded music was played on my'29 2 conversion with a GoldTone skin head.
I liked the tone,but it was too much tension for my old flange so I went back to Remo.

Culloden - Posted - 04/26/2017:  08:22:16

I played a friend's Granada with a hide head several years ago and really liked the sound of it. I'm not sure if the sound is worth the aggravation of having to keep it in adjustment all the time. I noticed that he has now switched back to a plastic head.

At least with open back banjos you don't have to remove the resonator to tighten the head.

pearcemusic - Posted - 04/26/2017:  08:31:02

Yeah I used the gold tone skin head as well and liked the tone. It changed tone often with change in temp or humidity. Back to using remo or 5 star.

RioStat - Posted - 04/26/2017:  08:40:53

Check out Lincoln Hensley....he makeS a hide head sound purty good !

banjohangout.org/topic/329533

klgera - Posted - 04/26/2017:  08:59:51

I had a Gold Tone hide head on a two flange Granada, I loved it!  However, it broke during a gig and I later replaced it with another one, but it didn't sound the same. So It has a Remo on it, the hide head was too touchy, even though I really like the sound.

Fathand - Posted - 04/26/2017:  09:34:57

Foggy Mountain Breakdown recorded by Scruggs in 1949 would have been on a hide head.

rcc56 - Posted - 04/26/2017:  11:17:34

Hide heads can sound great, but to keep them sounding the best they have to be adjusted frequently. Probably one of the reasons so many of the old Gibsons have bent or broken flanges and replaced hooks is because of wear and tear caused by frequent adjustment. If your banjo is a prewar Gibson, you might want to take this into consideration. All that having been said, if you don't mind tinkering with your head often, go for it. If you get tired of it, you can always put the Remo back on.

It has been said that Earl changed his hide heads every few weeks.

monstertone - Posted - 04/26/2017:  11:34:05

Sonny Osborne was also a big fan of hide heads,,,for a while. But like others have said, a maintenance nightmare, especially for a touring professional. I suppose if you are a real stickler for details, then play an original 5 string flat head Granada (good luck with that) with a hide head & only use one original ribbon mic for the whole band. Otherwise anything less is a compromise in the attempt to capture the "old sound" Like Earl said, the plastic heads make life a whole lot easier. 

Edited by - monstertone on 04/26/2017 11:35:07

Jim Shank - Posted - 04/26/2017:  12:59:34

I am a fan of the sound of a good, tight hide head on a bluegrass banjo. Nothing sounds as full, rich, and yet still cracking. The growl of the 4th string is more pronounced. They sound best right before they break. I've broken 3 in the past year. The last one I had setup sounding sooo good. Then went to a local gig (in my hot car) and found the head was split when I got to the gig! I had to borrow my buddy's openback just to play the gig.

I'm back to Remo now but still have a few hide heads in reserve. Now I'm just a little more afraid to use them. Still they cannot be beat for tone when cranked down. They never get too shrill or too bright like plastic ones do. Lots of volume too. I think JD Crowe said he used to break them almost weekly.

If you could just "know" at what tension they would break and keep them just under that, it would be perfect!

Here's and archtop with a Rogers head: youtu.be/HDkuEYVYokc

Edited by - Jim Shank on 04/26/2017 13:10:46

jimt - Posted - 04/26/2017:  15:39:48

I have been using vintage hide heads for the past decade on a 1927 Granada, a 1929 Style 3 and a 1925 Style 4 BB. The old heads are much more stable and only on the most humid days are they stretchy. The rest of the time they sound better than any plastic head ever did. I sold the Style 3 to a guy who fell in love with the sound of it the way it was set up. He visited Nashville with it, got it set up by a well known banjo authority who replaced the vintage hide with fresh plastic, cranked everything down real tight and gave it back to him. He was pretty proud of his new set up and brought it by to share. Loud and sterile it sounded to me. I reckon I am just too used to more warmth and overtones. I am never going back to plastic. People complain about how much work the hide heads are. There is less work involved throughout a year on a hide head than your average reed player puts into their instrument every week.  I guess we get used to what we want or like and everything else is too much work and not worth the effort. Hide heads are, in my opinion (and yes, I know what everybody has in addition to an opinion), worth every moment of effort for what they give.

RioStat - Posted - 04/26/2017:  15:41:26

Hey Jim! What tune is that you're playing on that hide head archtop?
Sounds like Ralph Stanley's "Little Willie".

Yeah.......go ahead everybody, laugh at the title of the tune !

davidppp - Posted - 04/26/2017:  16:18:25

Jim Mills did a great interview with J.D. Crowe in 2014: prewargibsonbanjos.com/crowe/ (or youtube.com/watch?v=g4fxjdjYwwA).  J.D. talks about skin heads starting around the 21:30 mark.

The Old Timer - Posted - 04/26/2017:  17:20:11

I have a Balch calfskin head on my Gibson "unnamed Jim Mills prototype/Custom Gold RB 75" which I play in the drier seasons of the year - October to April mostly. That way I don't fuss with the head during the more humid New England summer months. It has a depth and "class" of sonorous tone that can hardly be described as "twang", at least compared to a regular plastic head. It sounds "luxurious". It sounds VERY different from a clangy Mastertone flat head with plastic head (which I also play in many guises -- in summer I play a Blackjack which is built almost identically to the Custom 75, with its plastic head -- it sounds more "brash" by comparison).

If you have multiple "good" banjos, I urge you to at least try a good calfskin head on one of them. You'll never know otherwise!

I got the "bug" at Jim Mills banjo room, playing the Posey Roach banjo with old calfskin head. I was smitten!

I continue to marvel how Earl got that SPANG! opening pinch tone to start the recording of Randy Lynn Rag, with a hide head!

Dan Drabek - Posted - 04/26/2017:  19:26:23

Like so many things banjo, I think tone quality comes down to personal taste. If a mylar head is good enough for Dennis Caplinger, Allison Brown, Lens Kruger, Scott Vestal, Noam Pikelny, etc.,  I believe it's more than good enough for me. 

However, like digital vs film cameras--CD's vs vinyl--solid state vs tube amps--modern cars vs classic cars--or even pre-war vs modern handmade banjos, there may be more romance than analytics involved when choosing skin vs mylar. Most will agree that mylar is at least somewhat more stable. And there are even some of us who prefer it's sound quality. In the final analysis, I think it's all good. Pick your favorite flavor and have fun with it.

DD

jimt - Posted - 04/27/2017:  08:30:20

Scott (Rio...)

What tune where?

BobTheGambler - Posted - 04/27/2017:  10:14:08

I think my favorite banjo sound in the world is old-time up-picking on a resonator banjo with a hide head. Sure it can be a bit temperamental, but the sound is worth it to me. It makes the banjo kind of have "good days" and "bad days" so you either have to ride it out, adjust it, or switch to another instrument. If you've got the patience for that, go for it.

RioStat - Posted - 04/27/2017:  13:43:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by jimt

 

Scott (Rio...)

What tune where?

---

jimt, not you! 

The tune in the YouTube link posted above by mijknahs, (Jim from Torrance, CA)

Edited by - RioStat on 04/27/2017 13:44:51

jimt - Posted - 04/27/2017:  15:17:57

I have been tensioning to 88-90 lbs on the Drum Dial. They could be tighter but this tension generally gives great tone with little fear of breakage. Keep in mind I am using heads purchased on eBay that came off 1920's-era banjos. These get mounted loosely and cleaned with a water based leather cleaner, toothbrush, and rags. Let dry a couple of days, then tension down gradually over a period of the next 2-3 days. Get to 88-90 lbs and call it good. There will be inconsistent tension readings around the rim because of the varying thickness of the hide. On an archtop, holding the drum dial so that the outside edge is just inside the tension hoop places the plunger about 1/2" or so inside of the tone ring. I have had one head go since I started this. When I pput the next vintage head on I was worried I wouldn't get the same tone as the first head. Things sounded dead until I got the tension up to 88-90 lbs then I was happy.

Here is a clip of the Granada with a hide head:

youtube.com/watch?v=R7xhihSgwE8

Dan Drabek - Posted - 04/27/2017:  15:26:58

That's a fine sounding banjo Jim. Good snap and lots of ring. 

Glad to see you're still actively playing. It's been a lot of years since the old West Bank days. 

DD

jimt - Posted - 04/27/2017:  15:43:34

I have been gratified to see you here Dan. Your excellent playing provided a lot of inspiration to me. I remember you saying that Pony Express by Weisberg/Brickman inspired you to play. For the past 45 years I remember you when I hear or play that tune. You might enjoy this clip, as you always appreciated the unorthodox. It's that Granada again, break starts at 2:30.

youtube.com/watch?v=y495x1y2ri4