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fngrpikr - Posted - 10/13/2017: 14:00:12
A friend of mine dropped this off for me to do some work on and he is going to put it up for sale afterwards. Any clue on the age and what would you think a reasonable asking price would be for this?
Edited by - fngrpikr on 10/13/2017 14:47:59
fngrpikr - Posted - 10/13/2017: 14:01:21
For some unknown reason all of these pictures are upside down... sorry about that!
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/13/2017: 15:21:45
A Model 43, Grade 1 in what appears to be a Lifton case. Appears to be a flat head in pretty good condition.
A 43 should have a brass or bronze cap for a bearing surface over the outer lip (an arch top would have it over the inside lip) according to the catalog.
I don't recall the difference between a Style B flathead and a Style F on a 40 series aluminum rim — is it stamped somewhere?
What are the fretboard inlays like? They should be dots on an ebony fretboard, yes?
omebanjos.com/wp-content/uploa...-Best.pdf
Jim Yates - Posted - 10/13/2017: 15:29:19
Looks like an early sixties Ode from the Boulder plant. A different case, but. . . I've always lusted after these.
There are a couple of BHO members who own these.
Edited by - Jim Yates on 10/13/2017 15:31:48
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/13/2017: 16:09:03
It's listed in the 1964 catalog. My serial number isn't very far off but this one is a nicer model.
Hard to establish price. There are always a few for sale. $1,500 is my benchmark. Probably hard to get more and you might wait awhile at that. That case is worth $300 to the right Vega PS-5 owner if it has a Lifton badge (look on the inner pockets). Even $1,200 might go begging but I wouldn't sell mine for less (mine is all aluminum—no bronze cap—with a grade 0 solid mahogany neck and rosewood fretboard).
jun3machina - Posted - 10/13/2017: 18:07:01
I have one too. Mine is very early. I think the estimate price is reasonable. I paid $700 for mine, which has a hard case. They're amazing banjos! I looked for several years before finding mine. The older Baldwin's fetch a higher price...but I honestly prefer the pre Baldwin odes. There's a group on here too. I'm sure if you posted in the group, experts could chime in :)
fngrpikr - Posted - 10/13/2017: 20:22:35
A couple more pictures. The case has a Vega label and this is from the Boulder plant.
john bange - Posted - 10/14/2017: 10:23:44
the moderators still have not activated the groups """"""YET""""""so you can't visit the long neck group for more replies on this but you have had some well informed responses by the folks who know .
I would like to see additional photos....the entire neck...pot hdwe. if no structure issues, in a Lifton cast, I might start at $1500. It is a sought after model but a limited base of players. I came to that price range because the demand for long necks is soft right now. Reverb has had a model 21 Ode for less that that, without a case for 3 plus years...finally got an offer this year. The Baldwin Ode's seem to go for less.
If I were in the market for another long neck, with a few more photos showing no problems, yours is the one I'd probably try to buy...then, I'd turn around and sell the little Vega case badge for $100 bucks...or more.
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/14/2017: 11:23:25
The 40 series is the top of the line aluminum pot. Is it a B or an F — both are flatheads but one has an elevated ring (I think). I don't know which is which. (Mine, by comparison, is a 33 with the inner casting ground down to make it a flat top — no bronze cap).
The plainest neck on the 43 is Grade 1, ebony fretboard and dots.
This one shows up in the 1964 catalog. That's as good a date as any.
The Vega badge on a long neck case with a green interior should make it a Lifton. There should be a badge at the base of the interior compartment — does it have 1 or 2 compartments? A Lifton has 2.
By the time this banjo was made, ODE was not always using Lifton dases and certainly not ones with Vega badges. So the chances that is original are zero. No big deal, the case has value without the banjo.
Only the very earliest aluminum ODEs did not have Boulder cast in the rim. Those pots look like a straight piece of pipe such as this one that recently sold for $1,200, probably last week (Umanov's is closing and all instruments are 20% off).
umanovguitars.com/category/jus...ck-banjo/
fngrpikr - Posted - 10/14/2017: 12:20:42
Thank you for all of the very informative replies. This is the first time I've been back at the laptop since last night. Here's what I know. The 5th string tuner is missing and the 5th string capo is missing the part that frets the strings. I'm not sure if it is a B or F, but I can see a brass ring with a mirror and flashlight. There doesn't appear to be any structural damage at all.
My question would be if it would be the best to replace the 5th string tuner with an original style metal button friction tuner as opposed to a geared tuner which would require reaming out the hole?
And are there parts available for replacing the capo since it looks to be original equipment complete with black fret markers on the bar?
Or would the best course of action be to put it up for sale as is so the next owner can make those decisions?
I'll take some more pictures and get them posted.
Helix - Posted - 10/14/2017: 17:07:51
i AM THIS BANJO.
darwinyarwin - Posted - 10/14/2017: 17:28:23
Brent,
The questions you ask in this last post are best answered by "it depends." My opinions based upon my fairly extensive experience with Ode longnecks and trading them: 1) If you know the banjo is gonna be played a lot, put in a newer tuner, geared. A Waverly Planetary would be my choice, but they are not everyone's cuppa tea. 2) If it's gonna be sold to a newbie to longnecks, etc. replace the original tuner with a metal button one. 3) in this market (slow, buyer's market) it's harder to find anyone that knows enough about Ode longnecks to want it "as is" but that's the way I'd prefer to buy it. Most knowledgeable buyers at this point already have a couple longnecks in the closet. $1200 - 1500 is about right for an asking price. The case makes a lot of difference, so it looks sort of like a bargain to a buyer. If I was buying it from you I'd start by offering you $800-900 with free shipping, and that's generous right now.
As for 5th string capo. You can still get the spring-loaded arms from Saga/Golden Gate, thay can be made to work on a Pittman-style bar. Call Shubb, too. I bet they will sell you the screw adjusted type lever and proper screws if you ask nicely. Maybe.
Good luck. And keep us posted!
Edited by - darwinyarwin on 10/14/2017 17:43:28
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/15/2017: 12:24:40
If it is the Vega-Pittman, the spring from the Golden Gate works. Post a picture of the capo. It should look like this with a flat bar:
If it's a Vega-Pitmann, the long Shupp fits the screw holes exactly — Rick Shubb did this on purpose.
If it is the older Pitmann capo, good luck finding a clip that works. They can be made.
The original 5th will be a Grover Perma-Tension or a Kroll geared 5th (like mine). If there are screw threads in the hole, it was a Grover — none, it was a Kroll and a Grover might not fit.
The Grover is readily available. What you want is a vintage unit one with "Grover" cast into the edge of the metal button and the correct set screw. I can't find a picture of the vintage button but this picture shows the screw. I have one of those buttons mated to a geared 5th on my Vega PS-5. Someone will have a vintage Perma-Tension in a parts box.
There is no modern geared 5th that looks exactly like the Kroll anymore. Although many look close enough (the current Schaller is probably the closest), none will fool someone who knows the real deal. Let the buyer install what he/she wants.
If, however, you have to fill the hole and the Grover is too small, I'd call Bob Smackula and get a Schaller.
fngrpikr - Posted - 10/17/2017: 06:20:19
Here are some more pictures. Hope this is helpful. Thanks for all of the info!
fngrpikr - Posted - 10/17/2017: 06:21:10
And once again they are all upside down? I wonder what I'm doing wrong...
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/17/2017: 07:50:56
That is not a Pitman or Pitman-Vega. No sense going down that road unless you want to replace it with a Golden Gate.
That's a Shubb capo. It's not original to the banjo as Shubbs first appeared in the 1970s. The standard long Shubb will do it. If not in a hurry, you can send it to them for repair.
I sell the Golden Gate for $25 and the long Shubb for $39 plus postage. Any Saga dealer can get them for you.
Lifton case badge, check.
It will surprise me if a Grover Perma-Tension fits that 5th string hole. I do have a Schaller geared 5th in stock.
john bange - Posted - 10/17/2017: 07:55:50
I wouldn't do anything to it. whoever is lucky enough to get it will add the peg and capo parts necessary. It's really a beauty. At the very worst, the new owner might have to buy a new Shubb long capo to get the missing parts but, as was mentioned, Shubb might just send the needed stuff. The 5th string peg is a matter of preference and is easily added to the neck. The Waverly doesn't work too well with my odd-ball strings so, I'd go with a 5 Star or Schaller. A matching Grover button can be easily adapted.
In spite of the soft market for long necks, I doubt if yours will sit very long.
J
john bange - Posted - 10/17/2017: 08:32:36
think Mike's right about the 5th string peg...hole looks too large for another friction peg. In fact, it looks like the hole has been reamed out for a geared peg already...no problem
fngrpikr - Posted - 10/17/2017: 13:17:55
Actually the hole is too small for the 5th string tuner that my friend bought which is why I didn't want to ream it out in case the new owner wanted to keep it original. Thanks for the input. This banjo really sounds great even with just the few strings that are on it right now. I'm pretty intrigued by it but it's just not in the budget right now. Like I said earlier in the thread this isn't my banjo so if anyone is interested in talking with the owner about it you can message me and and I'll pass your info along to him. Pretty sure he's a member of the hangout.
mikehalloran - Posted - 10/22/2017: 11:40:02
quote:
Originally posted by fngrpikr
Actually the hole is too small for the 5th string tuner that my friend bought which is why I didn't want to ream it out in case the new owner wanted to keep it original. Thanks for the input. This banjo really sounds great even with just the few strings that are on it right now. I'm pretty intrigued by it but it's just not in the budget right now. Like I said earlier in the thread this isn't my banjo so if anyone is interested in talking with the owner about it you can message me and and I'll pass your info along to him. Pretty sure he's a member of the hangout.
Ok... the newer 5th string pegs all have a larger pilot than the old ones. I don't know when this started but it is recent. The newer ones look like this Gotoh and are too big for many banjos without additional reaming.
The Schaller I have has the older, smaller size — that's why I ordered it — and looks like this:
If I were to put this into a hole reamed for the Gotoh, I would have to shim the hole. I may still have a Golden Gate in stock with the smaller size. $10 including postage.
john bange - Posted - 11/08/2017: 07:47:01
don't know if this is still available but if it is, some lucky longnecker should grab it
john bange - Posted - 11/08/2017: 07:48:01
now that the groups are back up, I linked it to the long neck group
fngrpikr - Posted - 11/09/2017: 09:40:26
Thanks for doing that John! I'll let the owner know. It is still sitting in my shop.
fngrpikr - Posted - 11/09/2017: 09:53:43
The owner is Paul Bidanset and he's here on the hangout.
john bange - Posted - 01/08/2018: 17:00:18
Paul and I have reached a deal on this. It's coming to Seattle
fngrpikr - Posted - 01/09/2018: 06:50:22
It's a great banjo! ENJOY!
john bange - Posted - 01/13/2018: 08:29:48
64 Ode is here...not without it's issues but nothing unexpected on a veteran like this. It is drop dead beautiful once the grit and grime of the years has been removed.
the hardware is fine and only needed cleaning while the pot is minty. I like the fiberskin head. I didn't think I would but anything else and it would be too bright for my ears.
the beautiful, matching dowel stick was cracked a little and there was a small wobble when the neck was attached. I removed the stick and reglued it, installing a short steel rod into the heel and stick where it was cracked. the neck seems solid now. I had a Shubb long sliding capo and it went into the same holes as the old one. I added a matching geared 5th string peg into what was an odd shaped hole. I had to shim the peg and increase the depth a little but it's good now.
My thanks to the owner for shipping Priority Mail 2 day. I know it cost him more.
as I said in an earlier post, the nice Lifton /Vega case is on Ebay and should help me offset some of the extra stuff I keep buying.
john bange - Posted - 01/31/2018: 07:01:27
Well, ya takes your chances...I have found an old headstock repair on my Ode. It is solid and looks like it's okay but, my opinion of the folks I bought it from have taken a hit...both had plenty of opportunities to mention it.
fngrpikr - Posted - 01/31/2018: 08:34:22
John, I assure you I didn't see any old repairs on it but I never even got around to doing any work on it, including cleaning. Was it visible prior to cleaning it off? I am really sorry I didn't notice that and I am quite sure the seller hadn't seen it either. He had bought it and decided not to use it and it just sat in the case as far as I know.
mikehalloran - Posted - 01/31/2018: 11:44:38
Pictures and sound files?
Next time you're down here, c'mon over and A/B it with mine.
john bange - Posted - 02/04/2018: 13:00:00
I sent it on down the road. I was unhappy at having to repair the dowel stick, but when I found the repaired crack too, I figured that i'd just eat the loss.
john bange - Posted - 02/14/2018: 06:33:02
this unfortunate saga is over. the banjo arrived at it's new owner's destination with the undisclosed peg head repair separated. new owner is having a new neck made with the help of a hefty refund from me. lesson learned...I hope...of course, I'm lighter, a few bucks.
fngrpikr - Posted - 02/15/2018: 14:02:45
John, I'm sorry this is how things turned out. Did you take any photos of the peg head repair? I would really like to see what I missed. And by the way I was only passing this along for the owner. I'm going to get up with him and ask him if he had any clue that this was the case. My sincere guess is that he had not noticed it or he would've asked me about it I'm sure. Perhaps you should contact him and discuss the situation. Again I want to stress that I personally did not see the old repair and don't appreciate the implication that I had any knowledge of it.
john bange - Posted - 02/16/2018: 08:41:18
I looked carefully at banjo and did not see the repair either. The loose dowel stick was easily repairable.
Repair seperated cleanly with no obvious impact damage. I was willing to take it back but buyer wanted to keep and repair. A 200 dollar lesson...not the end of the world...sure was a beautiful banjo
