hobogal - Posted - 11/20/2017:  06:34:12

Hi I have just confused myself by watching different videos of the basic strum. Some videos I have watched show the steps below:

1 - finger strike down (thumb landing on 5th string) 'boom'
2 - bring hand up (thumb lifted off 5th string)
3 - fingers brush down (thumb landing on 5th string) 'chuck'
4 - thumb plucks 5th string on way up 'a'

However, when I watched the Chris Coole dvd, he keeps his thumb resting on the 5th string on step 2 and doesn't lift it off until step 4. Now I am confused as to whether I should keep my thumb resting or lift off - help! Any advice welcome.

banjukebox - Posted - 11/20/2017:  07:02:02

I think you have a good handle on the basic strum. Chris Coole adds many more techniques to his playing. What you might be referring to is more of a double thumbing style where the thumb is used to pluck the fifth string after every downstoke. He explains here: youtube.com/watch?v=aua20XV-9ec

jduke - Posted - 11/20/2017:  07:04:07

I've never watched Coole's playing that closely, but my guess is he is actually lifting his thumb, you just not seeing it. Otherwise, he would not be able to double thumb, which is playing an inside string with the thumb on you step 2.
Remember, on instruction videos, the motions are often times exaggerated for demonstration purposes where the movements are usually very subtle in actual playing.

Adam Harr - Posted - 11/20/2017:  07:26:47

I just rewatched that section of Chris's video, and you're right that he begins by teaching an approach in which the thumb stays planted on the 5th string until the 5th string is sounded. Watching a little later in the video, however, it's clear that isn't actually how he plays. He follows the four-step approach you outline, with his thumb coming off the 5th string after the boom and before the chuck-a. I suspect he begins the lesson as he does to instill economy of motion in the right hand early on.



I'm not qualified to say what constitutes the best technique, but it certainly seems like a good idea to be aware of these subtle distinctions and work on figuring out what works best for you. Here's a useful video in which Mike Iverson describes different right hand approaches and their relative merits:



youtube.com/watch?v=yXV4nt1Psck



 

Edited by - Adam Harr on 11/20/2017 07:35:30

jduke - Posted - 11/20/2017:  07:36:11

In my first post, I meant 'drop' thumb, which is using your thumb on inside strings. I didn't know that Coole had videos on double thumbing which is no doubt what he is doing.

hobogal - Posted - 11/20/2017:  08:28:41

Thanks for your responses. I see from the Mike Iverson video that there are even more nuances with the basic strum (including a floating thumb technique!). I think I will practice the steps as shown - it might cause problems later on if I rest my thumb on step 2. Classic case of watching too many videos!

Chadbanjo - Posted - 11/20/2017:  08:33:50

I found oldwookchucks video and explanation on the basic stroke as clear as can be.

RocketScienceBanjo - The Basic Stroke

bob42 - Posted - 11/20/2017:  08:37:57

You seem to be asking about Clawhammer. I'm new to the Peghead Universe,and am struggling with it too. This is my first post.

I stumbled on a demo for a course in 'Old Time' banjo that has helped me a lot. Sorry but I couldn't find a link.
The key teaching point was step 1 and step 2 involve different rotations of the wrist:
Step 1 is a rotation along the axis of the forearm. The thumb rotates away from the head, and part of the 'boom' is it striking the head along with the 5th string. The motion is percussive, with one other finger striking another string.
Step 2 is a rotation at right angles to that while the forearm remains stationary. The motion is a sweep. For me the thumb lifts here if my index finger targets a lower string in Step 1. This 'wind up' diminishes on higher strings and as my economy of motion improves.

For me the movements are slow, big and clumsy. On the demos they are fast, accurate and so economical that it's hard to tell what is going on.

My teacher from the local peghead shop advises me to relax and do whatever feels right. It changes as you learn. He's a great coach at finger picking and fretting but doesn't teach Clawhammer.

If anyone who knows how to actually play (or teach) can contribute to this it would be most appreciated.
bob42

AndyW - Posted - 11/20/2017:  08:43:30

Carrie, you want your thumb on the fifth string every single frail, don't let it hang in the air. Rocket science banjo does a great description of the basic strum.As well as the video already posted, download oldwoodchuckb's free pdf from

rsb.pricklypearmusic.net

Also, have a watch of these free videos from Dan Levenson.



banjohangout.org/lessons/video...ies&id=13



I can also recommend Dans book 'Clawhammer From Scratch' (which I am using) as great value for money, well worth paying out for as opposed to simply utilising free resources.

Edited by - AndyW on 11/20/2017 08:46:31

Moorsoldat - Posted - 11/20/2017:  09:06:34

Hello,

Just to say, I live in Switzerland where clawhammer is about as scarce as polar bears in the australian outback...
I had the same questioning some months from now, having begun with the ' Costello method', where you are strongly adviced to rest your thumb on 5th, at least to begin with clawhammer.

Well, I discovered (merci l'internet) other approaches. One was the 'rocket science banjo' by T. Spadaro (great, useful and serious stuff with a large smile, you can download it, eh ), and just later, Tom Collins ''banjo blitz' (it's on Youtube), the latter I find genial. No thumb rest on 5th, and - my opinion - the far best approach on great techniques, he is a great teacher ! By the way, thanks Tom for all you brought me, just through your YT lessons.

So just to say, look what you feel most interesting for you... myself, still struggling with exercises, but they are fun once you tackle them . the 'Beasts' are awful !!

Cheers, Patrick

Moorsoldat - Posted - 11/20/2017:  09:13:54

Sorry, was too quick - Thumb goes on 5th at each and every down stroke, just wanted to say it has'nt to rest on it after the 'bum' in he 'bum dit-y'

Patrick

hobogal - Posted - 11/20/2017:  09:35:57

Thanks for the responses. I just checked out Tom Collins and I think his videos series is just what I need - thanks Patrick.

AndyW - Posted - 11/20/2017:  10:15:50

Sorry to disagree Patrick.

But both Tom Collins and Tony Spadero are clearly in the thumb ON a string(5th or drop thumb string) with every stroke camp. It's just not necessarily sounded everytime. I fail to see how you can read RSB or watch banjo blitz and see completely the opposite.

AndyW - Posted - 11/20/2017:  10:23:32

I can't tag from my tablet but perhaps someone should tag fretlessfury(Tom Collins) or clawdan(Dan Levenson) or oldwoodchuckb(Tony Spadero) who I'm glad to see has started posting recently, and perhaps they can explain with a bit more authority than me.

Moorsoldat - Posted - 11/20/2017:  10:42:20

Hello Andy

Sorry for my first and long bla-bla, I agree with you, as you can read in my 'ps' .... Was just saying the thumb has to go on the 5th or anay other string (drop th) with each down stroke. You rightly made it clear, thanks !

P.

hobogal - Posted - 11/20/2017:  12:14:54

I'm just doing lesson one of Banjo Blitz - I think this is where I need to start. I have been playing with a metronome and amazed how quickly I go out of time. I think a full bum-ditty is too much at this stage!

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/20/2017:  15:23:23

I recommend that until the clawing motion is perfected the thumb should come to rest against a string on the 2nd and 4th note of every set. I can't be more specific as some people write the Bums and Diddies as Eighth note based and others as Quarter note based. Whether the thumb "sounds" a note or not is up to the player's taste and the demands of the tune.

Hobogal:

Download a copy of my book and other lessons from: http:rsb.pricklypearmusic.net I start with Bum-dy as the BASIC STRUM. Bum Did-dy is actually a compound stroke. Bum-dy is a frailed stroke followed by a thumb stroke (on any string). There are several components to simple frailing and the Bum Did-dy involves 1 Quarter note and 2 Eighths. By starting with all eighth notes I can concentrate on getting the student comfy with making music on the banjo (albeit not very advanced music) before getting into the complications or rhythmic emphasis.

Edited by - oldwoodchuckb on 11/20/2017 15:29:29

AndyW - Posted - 11/20/2017:  16:16:24

Rocketscience banjo has some very good focussed points that resonated with me as a beginner.

Keeping the clawhammer basic strum going even when not sounding probably being the main thing. (Other instructors say it, but without emphasis it gets lost.) Also the emphasis on memorisation.

Northl - Posted - 11/20/2017:  17:55:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by hobogal

Thanks for the responses. I just checked out Tom Collins and I think his videos series is just what I need - thanks Patrick.

---

hobogal - Posted - 11/21/2017:  00:08:48

Thank you Tony and Andy - I appreciate you taking the time to respond. When I started out playing fingerstyle, I remember going through drills of roll variations and having to concentrate really hard on what finger was hitting what strings - and now it is second nature - so, it's back to drills.

R Buck - Posted - 11/21/2017:  05:23:53

Oh my, what discourse.

Fathand - Posted - 11/21/2017:  05:58:46

My thumb does not land on the 5th in your Step 1. It does land there during your step 3.

Works for me.

Clawdan - Posted - 11/22/2017:  15:23:57

Tony and I are pretty much on the same page. Thump a thump a. Thump = HAND goes down as fingernail strikes/brushes down as the thumb hits a string (let the meat of the thumb just slip behind it) and STAYS PUT UNTIL , a = HAND lifts and the thumb then sounds as the meat of the thumb catches on the string it hit as the HAND lifts it off. No purposeful movement of finger or thumb. Gravity takes it down, just enough lift to overcome gravity lifts it up.

Thank you Andy and all who are using and enjoying my book. There is even now a Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch group here. Thanks to Andy for setting that up and those who requested it.

Play Nice,
Dan Levenson
Author - Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch
Clawdan.com

hobogal - Posted - 11/23/2017:  10:09:30

Thanks Dan. Your books comes highly recommended and is on my Xmas wish list!

Clawdan - Posted - 12/16/2017:  07:38:46

A late ps to your comment "Now I am confused as to whether I should keep my thumb resting or lift off - help! Any advice welcome." and perhaps a refinement of my answer. Your description and technique are right on point. And there are lots of different ways to accomplish this. However many videos show one thing while describing another. I don't say this to criticize, just to point out that sometimes you see and hear accurately but contradictory to what is described. Most of us have at least one such fopah in our vids.

That said, as you "live" with the playing of your instrument you tend to go from conscious "do exactly as described" to unconscious and more relaxed playing where your hands start to do what is more natural for you and gets the sound you expect. Kind of Zen and definitely contrary to how most of us think it should happen. There is no way to "create" that it just has to happen and comes with time. The less you stress it the less stress you have and the quicker it happens.

A skype lesson or two with one of us (pick by the sound and style you like to hear and see to start) with the knowledge that there are many ways to skin that banjo.

BTW, I'll be over in Ireland for the first Irish Old Time Festival in February. Perhaps we will meet there and get some in person time to work on it.

Play Nice,
Dan
Clawdan.com

Helix - Posted - 12/18/2017:  08:00:14

1 - finger strike down (thumb landing on 5th string) 'boom'

2 - bring hand up (thumb lifted off 5th string)

3 - fingers brush down (thumb landing on 5th string) 'chuck'

4 - thumb plucks 5th string on way up 'a'



Boom rest chuck a is exactly correct. Muting the 5th is more optional I think.



My experiences with Fred Starner who played with Pete Seeger on the Clearwater were such that we saw him do all sorts of up-picking variations, pinch chords, flipping one fingerpick over like a fingernail. His clarity is on his recordings, speaks for itself.



I learned up-picking first, then frailing, then claw.

Edited by - Helix on 12/18/2017 08:00:35

Jim Yates - Posted - 12/19/2017:  07:31:42

Helix,
I'm curious about what your difference is between frailing and clawhammer. I have always thought of them as synonyms.

Helix - Posted - 12/19/2017:  09:27:26

With permission, it's like hairsplitting. over here, Joe Bethancourt and I had some discussions about this.

Frailing = Grandpa Jones, downstroking.

Claw = specific notes are played with the 5th in reserve = tap, rest, tap, hit, same 4 beats. Now I"m way out on a limb, just sawed myself off, didn't I.

I thought nobody read this stuff, there's always somebody listening, Molder.

Jim Yates - Posted - 12/20/2017:  17:40:22

Not sure if I understand. Hitting chords on two and four is frailing and hitting only single strings is clawhammer?