Clawdan - Posted - 04/21/2018:  06:33:22

I got an interesting note yesterday from someone regarding the different versions of tunes among my playing and tabbing of Cumberland Gap. The comment was as follows:

"I own the book "Old Time Favorites for Clawhammer Banjo" and am enjoying learning the tunes. One struggle I have is that when learning a song I find that in both the MP3s you can get from Mel Bay's site or your YouTube page & you play the song differently from the tab. It's usually 80% the same song but with some notes excluded or added. This is confusing when trying to pick out the melody for some parts. It would be helpful if you were to play the song note for note (either basic or advanced versions) first & then explain the extra flourishes you can add or alternate versions second."

I thought I would try to address this here as it is an important observation and one that could lead to "tab dependence" if you don't quite understand WHY the versions are different.

I invite you to read the information in my books. We all want to go right to the tunes but often the introductory info can help tell you why (in this case) some of versions are not identical (even 80%) and why there are so many variants of a tune. Not all tunes are played the same way by all folks and by giving you various options and varying the playing it will be more lifelike and help you learn in the ongoing live jam environment. Tab will get you headed in the right direction but not give you "THE" tune. For that it is listen, listen, listen then listen some more.

Here is the quote from my books. (This is going to be long! Also it references CD's in the book but not all sound files are downloaded - I may have a few with discs left.):

"About the CDs

There are 2 CDs accompanying this volume. I decided that what would serve you best is a single interpretive composite version of each tune played on banjo and another on fiddle all at a moderate speed so you can hear the tunes as well as read them. These are NOT an exact playing of what has been written but a more real life representation of the tunes and essentially 4th and 5th versions of each tune for you to work on by ear. Playing by ear is an important skill in traditional music.

The recorded banjo version will sound more full than the single note version as the tunes are written. That is to say, there is more fill or what some call the crash and noise that is often heard in one’s playing but not written out. That is because while the written music is literal, played and heard music is less intentional. Also, having the recorded fiddle version will give you a more literal base to work from and be like what you hear in local jam sessions.

About the Tunes
Each tune presented here has the following characteristics:

A chord line - The chord names are printed above the standard notation line at each chord
change or at the beginning of each part. Chords are not so intuitive or fixed as most folks would believe and are therefore often in dispute. I use the don’t encourage bad music rule. Just because the old timers might not have known a better chord than they used doesn’t mean theirs was the best choice or that it sounded good. Use your judgment here as in all music. Use what you like, like what you use. I like mine but fully acknowledge there are other, perhaps better options.

Standard notation - Folks wanted a melody line that would be playable by those who don’t play or need banjo tab. It is indicative of the tab version but is only a point of reference and beginning, not a master that is slavishly reproduced by the tab. It’s a good starting point and is used as the reference for this book and for its fiddle and mandolin companion titled, oddly enough, Old Time Favorites for Fiddle and Mandolin (MB 30225).

Basic tablature line - This line should be playable by all but the most beginning players. While it is intended to be basic it is not a baby version of the tune. These versions of the tunes usually follow at least the basic melody. I strive to minimize drop thumb moves and unusual playing techniques in
this tab line. Even so, there will be times when the basic version just isn’t so easy and perhaps even more difficult for some of you than the advanced version below it.

Advanced tablature line - This line should provide some challenges to most everyone. It
will require more time and finesse as it is usually more ornamental (more than just melodic) and may include some less than intuitive ways of playing some passages. It even surprised me to see some of my fingering written out in tab. It is pretty much the most intricate version of the tune. This version contains more hammers-ons, pull-offs, double and drop thumbs. This line may or may NOT agree with the basic and standard notation lines. That is partly because of other techniques used including counter melody, blue notes and syncopation. You can also expect to find hammer-ons and pull-offs to
un-played strings and what is commonly referred to as the Galax lick, which is indicated by one full beat drawn out finger stroke followed by a full beat long thumbed note.

About Written Music

Please remember that written music has many limits when it comes to accurately representing true music. There are many subtleties and inflections that cannot really be represented by the limited palette that written music provides. Also, in one written pass through any tune, there are countless variations of notes and techniques that likely would not ALL be played in one playing of the tune.

This is done so you have as many options as possible to choose from when you play the tune. Learn the written music, but listen to the CD versions, too. Find older (I often look for the oldest) sources whenever you can. If you listen long enough, you will find that you can sing the tune before you ever try to play it. Which brings me to:

Creativity - Beyond The Right (Write) way - My version will not be the only version you come upon as you journey through the old time music world. These versions of the tunes come from how I hear and play music that has been handed down for generations and CHANGED for many reasons by each player that has handled and played each tune. Mine are not supposed to be the only one you always want to play or hear. You get to put your own variations in as well. A and B parts may be one way here, and reversed in your jam session. Some folks may play only one A and others.

Tune titles may vary. You may want to make a crooked tune come out even for a dance.
These transcriptions are intended to be a starting point, not an ending. In reality, there is no one right way to play any of these tunes. Everything is open to your interpretation. If there is a right way it is the way you like it. HOWEVER, if you are going to play with others - a goal of most but not all folks - then the right way will be the one you agree on in your group no matter how large or small. With more licks in your bag of tricks, you will be most able to adapt to the music of the day and time."

Please take your time and read the books. It may answer many many questions. I am glad to answer questions and in fact invite them here and by email.

Play Nice,
Dan Levenson
author of Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch (an 13 other Mel Bay publications).

Lew H - Posted - 04/21/2018:  07:14:29

Hooray for you Clawdan ! I've been to too many "traditional banjo" workshops at banjo camps in which the instructor said here is how, say, Tommy Jerrell, played Beaver in the Soup Pot. I know I hardly ever play anything the exact same way twice, and I figure Jerrell didn't either. That workshop instructor is teaching how he saw Jerrell playing it, maybe, on one Saturday afternoon in 1962. The next week Jerrell might have it played in in a slightly different way. Maybe he played some variations as he repeated the melody. So thanks for saying what needs to be said!

banjered - Posted - 04/21/2018:  08:05:06

Well spoke, Dan. When I was starting out it took me quite a few years to realize that there is no single "correct" way to play any tune, that endless versions exists and literally change from moment to moment as playing occurs. With tab I never look upon them as "the" correct way to play a tune but just as a general guide. As you suggest I will look as various tabs and listen to various versions and eventually come up with a version that works for me but with the realization that I am likely or will need to change that version on the fly as I play with different fiddlers. Playability is a big factor for me and I will usually drop more notes than add them, plus I look at the measure(s) before and after a measure to make as sure as possible playability (for me) flows one to the other. The only way I would learn the very note-filled way of playing a tune would be if I was playing with a fiddler on stage that matches their playing in an interesting fashion which hasn't happened yet and may not ever. Yet to contradict myself, there are some tunes that just don't sound right or good (to my ears) unless you put in some of those challenging notes - examples abound but for one the Jenny Baker version of Twin Sisters. It was very freeing to throw away the concept of a single correct way to play a tune. Whatever and wherever you are playing you just try to make it fit in OK, don't throw the fiddler or the jam a curve ball! Gofferit you banjoleros! banjered

jack_beuthin - Posted - 04/21/2018:  09:23:15

Spot on Dan (and Lew and banjered). This is the sort of insight and depth that rising players need to hear, especially when it comes to learning from tab. I was talking to my doctor one day about debate in the medical community regarding early screening for some diseases. He said, 'The problem is not the data, but what you do with it once you have it.' In my view, the same goes for tab--it's not tab itself that is a problem, but what one does with it and how one uses it.

I recently laid out a method for dissecting a tab, then rebuilding it to something that suits personal taste and ability. This exercise was intended to help some of my aspiring banjo friends/students break "tab addiction." This pretty much dovetails with everything Dan is saying, so I've attached it here, and provided some explanation.

I've tabbed out the A part of Red-haired Boy (aka, Little Beggar Man). The 8-bar tab line is spread across two pages, so if you snag my tab, print out both pages and lay them side by side.

The top 8 bars are a fairly notey rendition, as one might find if searching for a tab in the archives here. If one starts by learning this note for note, the learning curve will be steep and it will be hard to break away from the notion of "always play it this way."

On the 8-bar line below, I have extracted only the downbeat melody notes, which I call the "essential" melody notes (two per measure). These are the "bums" of the bum ditty (or bum-pa dit-ty) rhythm. With rare exception, a clawhammer player would strike these notes. So, I have encouraged my students to simply play these essential notes over and over (forget the full tab) until they get them embedded in muscle memory. Sing/hum the notes too.

On the third line, I have added back the upbeat melody notes (again extracted from the first line). These are the "dit" notes of the bum(-pa) dit-ty. So now we have a fuller melody line with four notes per measure ("basic melody"). Again, this should be play repeatedly until embedded into muscle memory. A clawhammer player usually plays these upbeat melody notes, but not always. Or let's put it this way, if you play these notes on the downbeats and upbeats, no one should fault your playing for doing that.

On the fourth line, I have split the upbeat into two eighth-notes so that we now have a 5th string strike--the melody line is rounded out with the basic bum dit-ty. Once you get this going, you have a basic "frailing" version that will work in jams. When playing at dance speed, I might not play much more that this. And when we go beyond this, we start ornamenting the tune (which gives it personality, and your own touch). So here, in the fourth line, is a "basic vanilla" version that we can now "flavor up."

On the fifth line, I replaced the upbeat melody note (the "dit") with a brush, just to convey the idea of how that sounds and works.

Finally, on the sixth line, I have taken the basic "bum dit-ty" version from the fourth line, and "flavored to taste" with some hammers and drop thumbs (the "pa" note of the "bum-pa dit-ty"), and some brushes on the "dit" beat (upbeat). So, in effect, I have taken someone else's tab, distilled the tune to it's "banjo essence" and then built it back up to something that suits my playing ability and sensibility. The tab is no longer something external that I am trying to absorb, but rather something internal that I have expressed on paper.

Yes, this is all very mechanical, but if you are fighting against "tab addiction" it is one approach to breaking that addiction. And you can always go back to the "vanilla version" and fool around with different ornaments. And let those "happy accidents" occur too.

Thanks again Dan for your elaboration on an important topic that trips up many players. I hope my little exercise adds to the discussion.

Red-haired Boy A part (how to "own" a tab)

 

mbuk06 - Posted - 04/21/2018:  11:32:32

Hallelujah.



This is something that is seldom discussed in detail and is a highly relevant lightbulb for all of us, but particularly for those for whom confronting variation functions as a block.



My guess is that we've all been in situations and seen examples where someone finds the idea of variation as 'problematic' and it causes them undue but very real difficulty when playing with others.



It's not easy to fix even 1:1 because it can be really ingrained thinking beyond just music. The reasons for this rigidity perplex me. I have wondered if it stems from a picker having a career background where there is a binary right/wrong or strongly rule-based culture? But then again I know some excellent musicians who work within those type concepts and don't apply that thinking to their playing.



Variation is creative delight and helps to shape identity and flavour; hopefully the posts here will be a resource to help that variation light bulb get lit.

Edited by - mbuk06 on 04/21/2018 11:40:02

Paul R - Posted - 04/21/2018:  12:43:38

Dan said: "Not all tunes are played the same way by all folks ..."
Yup. It's called "folk" music, not robot music. Even in classical repertoire musicians are praised (or not) for their "interpretations. We're all folk and all folk are different.

Dan said: "I decided that what would serve you best is a single interpretive composite version of each tune played on banjo and another on fiddle ..."
When I started, someone told me to "listen to the fiddle." That's what the tunes were written for, and that's the essence.

It's common to hear something and think it's the definitive thing. Some time back, someone came to the jam and was surprised to see drop thumb - had been taught or led to believe that bum-ditty was the whole thing.

Thanks for stating things clearly, with a full logical explanation, Dan. People need to be taught that the genre is broader than it often seems.

AndyW - Posted - 04/21/2018:  12:48:12

I as a beginner(and having used Dan's 'From Scratch' book) will be watching this thread like a hawk.

Although the concept of having different ways of embellishing a basic melody is not a difficult concept to grasp, actually physically doing such a thing on the fly is for a beginner very awkward. Pre-planned variations are of course just effectively 'extra tab' and this has been easy enough on the one tune where I have bothered(old joe clark). I've also altered some 'from scratch' tunes slightly to improve them to my ear

I expect as I get better I will be able to throw in drop thumbs/pulloffs/slides 'on the hoof'. At the moment some of the huge tab differences between versions due to different fingerings/strings used are way beyond me.

jack_beuthin - Posted - 04/21/2018:  14:09:30

If I had take everything said here (lots of good stuff) and boil it down to one thing, it would be these words from Dan:

"Tab will get you headed in the right direction but not give you "THE" tune. For that it is listen, listen, listen then listen some more.

Northl - Posted - 04/22/2018:  06:17:16

After you use Dan's book and listen a lot you will be on your way!

I would like to see other tab instruction books bold the melody notes to assist learners who play too slow at first to find it.

After while you realize and expect to find it in the bums and the drop thumbing ...

calden - Posted - 04/22/2018:  12:42:33

Jack- 

Yep! I do essentially the same thing, tabbing out an "outline" melody version.  Two reasons - I don't want a beginner to get lost and stumped up by hammer-ons, pulloffs, remembering where the fingers go to what fret, inside thumbing, whatever.  And also, I'd rather they learn a super-basic version and enjoy playing it to get the bones of the tune in their head and soul.  Then as they become friendlier with their left hand techniques and keeping the right hand in the right shape, then they can add things as they go along.

Carlos

quote:

---

Originally posted by jack_beuthin

Spot on Dan (and Lew and banjered). This is the sort of insight and depth that rising players need to hear, especially when it comes to learning from tab. I was talking to my doctor one day about debate in the medical community regarding early screening for some diseases. He said, 'The problem is not the data, but what you do with it once you have it.' In my view, the same goes for tab--it's not tab itself that is a problem, but what one does with it and how one uses it.



I recently laid out a method for dissecting a tab, then rebuilding it to something that suits personal taste and ability. This exercise was intended to help some of my aspiring banjo friends/students break "tab addiction." This pretty much dovetails with everything Dan is saying, so I've attached it here, and provided some explanation.



I've tabbed out the A part of Red-haired Boy (aka, Little Beggar Man). The 8-bar tab line is spread across two pages, so if you snag my tab, print out both pages and lay them side by side.



The top 8 bars are a fairly notey rendition, as one might find if searching for a tab in the archives here. If one starts by learning this note for note, the learning curve will be steep and it will be hard to break away from the notion of "always play it this way."



On the 8-bar line below, I have extracted only the downbeat melody notes, which I call the "essential" melody notes (two per measure). These are the "bums" of the bum ditty (or bum-pa dit-ty) rhythm. With rare exception, a clawhammer player would strike these notes. So, I have encouraged my students to simply play these essential notes over and over (forget the full tab) until they get them embedded in muscle memory. Sing/hum the notes too.



On the third line, I have added back the upbeat melody notes (again extracted from the first line). These are the "dit" notes of the bum(-pa) dit-ty. So now we have a fuller melody line with four notes per measure ("basic melody"). Again, this should be play repeatedly until embedded into muscle memory. A clawhammer player usually plays these upbeat melody notes, but not always. Or let's put it this way, if you play these notes on the downbeats and upbeats, no one should fault your playing for doing that.



On the fourth line, I have split the upbeat into two eighth-notes so that we now have a 5th string strike--the melody line is rounded out with the basic bum dit-ty. Once you get this going, you have a basic "frailing" version that will work in jams. When playing at dance speed, I might not play much more that this. And when we go beyond this, we start ornamenting the tune (which gives it personality, and your own touch). So here, in the fourth line, is a "basic vanilla" version that we can now "flavor up."



On the fifth line, I replaced the upbeat melody note (the "dit") with a brush, just to convey the idea of how that sounds and works.



Finally, on the sixth line, I have taken the basic "bum dit-ty" version from the fourth line, and "flavored to taste" with some hammers and drop thumbs (the "pa" note of the "bum-pa dit-ty"), and some brushes on the "dit" beat (upbeat). So, in effect, I have taken someone else's tab, distilled the tune to it's "banjo essence" and then built it back up to something that suits my playing ability and sensibility. The tab is no longer something external that I am trying to absorb, but rather something internal that I have expressed on paper.



Yes, this is all very mechanical, but if you are fighting against "tab addiction" it is one approach to breaking that addiction. And you can always go back to the "vanilla version" and fool around with different ornaments. And let those "happy accidents" occur too.



Thanks again Dan for your elaboration on an important topic that trips up many players. I hope my little exercise adds to the discussion.

---

Lew H - Posted - 04/22/2018:  14:44:05

Tab is better than it sounds. LOL

BrooksMT - Posted - 04/22/2018:  14:59:38

I'm going to sound a contrary note :-/

If a beginner buys a book with tab and music, the tab should match the music. It's hard enough learning to play without having conflicts between tab and music. I have run into this before.

Now, after playing for 2 years, I can learn by ear, and don't require the tab. Mostly, I only look at tab if I am unable to figure out the tuning. But when I was starting out, it bugged the devil out of me to try to reconcile book tab with book cd. I followed along with the tab as the music played, and could not see how it supposedly showed the music....... Because it did not show the music.

If you are going to include music with the book, then why do you include incorrect tab? How the heck is a beginner supposed to turn into an expert if the basics are not in agreement? If you go out of your way to make it more difficult than it needs to be, don't be surprized if you get negative comments from beginners who bought your materials.

If and when the beginner wants to learn variations, let him/her go to youtube, or buy some cd's of someone they like (maybe even the book's author *smiles*). Don't try to tell them you are doing them a favor by playing one way and tabbing it another. You are not.

AndyW - Posted - 04/22/2018:  23:50:55

Remember Brooks that your experience is two years of teaching yourself.

Dan's experience is decades of both playing and teaching (teaching from beginner to advanced).

My immediate inclination as a beginner(10 months), just like your own beginners inclination(24+), is that an accompanying CD should match book tab.

I think it would better to ask questions if you don't fully understand what Dan is saying, rather than just coming out with your own embryonic theories.

AndrewD - Posted - 04/23/2018:  01:06:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrooksMT

I'm going to sound a contrary note :-/



If a beginner buys a book with tab and music, the tab should match the music. It's hard enough learning to play without having conflicts between tab and music. I have run into this before.



...



If you are going to include music with the book, then why do you include incorrect tab? How the heck is a beginner supposed to turn into an expert if the basics are not in agreement? If you go out of your way to make it more difficult than it needs to be, don't be surprized if you get negative comments from beginners who bought your materials.



If and when the beginner wants to learn variations, let him/her go to youtube, or buy some cd's of someone they like (maybe even the book's author *smiles*). Don't try to tell them you are doing them a favor by playing one way and tabbing it another. You are not.

---

Basic mistake here is to have the concept of "correct" and "variation". There is no "correct." - The cd just has a variation that is slightly different to the tab.. Part of turning from a beginner to an "expert" is being able to extract the melody and harmony out of somebody else's performance (which may be, and often preferably is, on a fiddle)  and produce something that works.

We've had these discussions about Dan's multi-level tabs before where I've said that IMHO you should not see this as "learn the basic and when you have these down learn the advanced" but "learn from the basic, have a quick look at the advanced to steal some ideas on one person's fuller interpretation and then do your own thing" and where I've expressed my opinion that slavishly learning Dan's advanced tabs is a retrograde step as it will inhibit your own free expression and variation.

The only time I've ever actually written tab for publication (the Dwight Diller tab book - now available as a free download) we listened to  and  watched Dwight playing and wrote down the tab. Chances of us tabbing exactly what was played on the single iteration that we recorded on the cd ? Zero. Dan does his own tabs so probably could, if he wanted to, exactly tab a snapshot of a specific performance. I fully understand why he doesn't.

BrooksMT - Posted - 04/23/2018:  09:26:36

Andy and Andrew, I think you both have forgotten what it's like to be a beginner. One of you has been playing for over 40 years, and one of you has already become proficient on other instruments. That's a great achievement for each of you. I salute you, and hope to join your ranks one day.

I don't disagree with you on the points relating to making the song your own, that's fine, and desirable (and I try to do that, now).

When I learn from tab, I try to duplicate what's tabbed. If there is no music that plays the tab, then I type the tab into Tabledit, and then let Tabledit play the tab. That way, I can learn 2 ways, by viewing the tab, and by associating the actual sounds that the tab represents. As a result, I can usually sight-read banjo tab now. Sight-reading is a legitimate musical technique, and was encouraged when I took music in school (long ago, back with the stone tablets and dinosaurs, I'm not even sure banjos were invented yet :-). If you can see it and hear it, you make use of 2 different ways to increase your musical knowledge. I think that is a good goal for beginners.

Tabbing one thing, and playing something else, is fine for intermediate players. I have no problem with that. But I have a big problem with presenting such materials as beginner suitable. A beginner is probably wondering if banjo is for him/her (I certainly was). Making the learning difficult, even in the interests in developing intermediate skills, is just not a good idea. I've read that 90% of all instruments bought for home play end up in the closet. Part of the reason, I believe, is that beginners are given materials beyond their capability, they get discouraged, and then quit. Josh Turknett says that lack of progress (or the perception of same) is the number one reason people quit playing.

Maybe authors who believe in providing music different from their tab should recommend Tabledit to the beginners who buy their book. It's been a huge help to me. I have no financial or other interest in Tabledit.

AndyW - Posted - 04/23/2018:  09:51:14

Martin reread what I said.

Quote "My immediate inclination as a beginner(10 months), just like your own beginners inclination(24+), is that an accompanying CD should match book tab."Unquote

However, for some reason an extremely experienced teacher isn't doing this. He's trying to explain his reasoning here. I don't think simply arguing against what he is doing is helpful in the slightest, and will detract from what I had hoped would turn into a very interesting thread of how best to use Dans materials.

BrooksMT - Posted - 04/23/2018:  10:19:34

Sorry AndyW, you are right, I misread your post, I apologize.

The teacher, Dan Levenson, did explain what and why. My comment should have been directed to him, I guess. I don't buy his reasoning, and explained why. That is a legitimate comment for this thread, to my way of thinking. I would hope that my comment would serve as feedback, by a student banjoist.

If Dan wants to close the thread, leaving it as merely a communication to his students or potential students, I guess that is up to the Administrator. Or, if he wants only comments from his students, I guess he could make it a private thread.

When I start a thread, I expect, and hope for, comments. Naturally, I'd wish that everyone saw the world the same way I do *smiles*. But I try to learn from those who disagree with me...there are lots of smart people out there, and I've learned from them all my life.

banjered - Posted - 04/23/2018:  14:37:05

That's an interesting comment Brooks about matching the CD to tab for beginners. I would hope that
"Clawhammer From Scratch" fits that description but all the subsequent Dan books don't for the reasons mentioned. Does "Clawhammer Banjo For the Complete Ignoramus" by Wayne Erbsen match CD and tab? I agree with Brooks in the sense of beginning beginer's books should match up pretty much 100% but after that - welcome to the wild and wooly of versionology! I remember my begining banjo days when I didn't have the resources available today. Back then, a video matched to tab would have put me way ahead. If the me of today could go back and teach me as the beginner I could have learned Clawhammer banjo10X faster than I did. Would have literally shaved YEARS off my learning curve. banjered

AndyW - Posted - 04/24/2018:  08:06:55

For Banjered,

Clawhammer From Scratch has exercises on CD played as tabbed. It also has 3 versions of the same 12 tunes. A 'double thumb' version, 'drop thumb version, and a full on what Dan calls a 'kitchen sink' version, each with a slow run through on CD as tabbed.

However, as per Old Time Festival Tunes also on the CD there is a different variation full speed tune, and also provided is a variation played on fiddle. And Dan does state that variation is the eventual goal.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 04/24/2018:  09:20:02

I see a difference between using tab to learn a tune and in learning how to read and play tab itself. At the very beginning one has to learn the ABCs of making the correct motions which make the correct noises at the correct time and place, and for THAT, what is heard should match what is written, EXACTLY. Otherwise the student can be confused as to what motions align with what they hear.
But once past the fundamentals I agree that the tab should just be a sketch showing the outline of a tune, or else is showing just one possible version of the ornaments and details that might be added by a player.

Clawdan - Posted - 04/28/2018:  06:38:05

Thank you all for the comments and the interesting discussion. Much good has been said.

I do want to respond to Brook's "contrary" note. I may have been unclear but the question referred primarily to the more advanced tune books. You are however correct and I can assure you (as I hope others will confirm) that in CBFScratch the recordings do indeed and should match the tabs exactly (may be a mistake or two) though the fiddle version recorded may not since they are fiddle versions provided to give you a "true" sense of the tune you will hear in the wild.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Thank you for this great feedback.

Play Nice,
Dan

AndyW - Posted - 04/28/2018:  08:33:19

A and B parts are as tabbed in the slow versions but the single up to speed versions are not. From the From Scratch book(capitalisation Dan's own):



Quote"Disc 1 also contains an up to speed banjo version of the tune. This version is NOT tabbed out and is intended to give you an idea of what it might sound like played in a jam AND to serve as a basis for continued work after you finish this book. "Unquote

Edited by - AndyW on 04/28/2018 08:33:47

Clawdan - Posted - 04/28/2018:  14:08:19

Thank you for that addition Andy.

ceemonster - Posted - 04/29/2018:  22:09:40

I find it distasteful that polite input from a poster speaking from plenty of their own experience, is being slammed, in a discussion forum that had no tag on the OP saying, discussion and opinions are not welcome here. No teacher worth the appellation would be offended by that input. They might agree, they might not, but there's nothing offensive about it. The negativity is also somewhat intellectually dishonest given that I can think of more than one clawhammer banjo tune book that I and others respect as classics on certain CH styles that have been the focus of plenty of discussion here as "great, but not great for beginners, since the tab differs from the study recording and that is tough and confusing for beginners, best to turn to this one later on your development." As a beginner, I had to steer clear for some time, of resources in which tab and the study sound files varied, . . . . . and my development profited greatly from doing so for quite a period of time, BTW.

AndyW - Posted - 04/30/2018:  00:32:23

The problem was Martin thought 'Old Time Favourites' was for an absolute beginner.

I think this thread has already discussed and shown this is NOT the case, and in fact Dan has his 'From Scratch' book available for such a person.

Personally, I think what could have turned into a fantastic insightful thread(hence mbuk's hallelujah) of how to best develop variations has been derailed (unintentionally) by Martin's post into a "should beginners Cd's match the tablature".[No offence meant there Martin].

I'm going to start another thread I think that can develop in that manner so wont input further here.

Clawdan - Posted - 04/30/2018:  08:38:08

Sorry, no one was or is being slammed and no one was identified. I felt it a good topic and a question that has come from several folks over the years that allowed for an opportunity to illuminate and discuss this issue with everyone. No personal insult or injury was intended or implied. If one has taken personal offense I apologize. None was intended or stated. It is unfortunate when these opportunities are seen as personal when no such intent exists.
Play Nice,
Dan

Stephen Rapp - Posted - 04/30/2018:  14:04:17

Good post. Learning from tabs can be OK, but ideally you should view them as simply one specific take on a tune. In real life playing situations, you have to learn to listen to the fiddle(s) and base your playing on that. Musicianship is much broader than following a memorized pattern. Ideally we want to have enough understanding of the tune and our own playing to become a solid part of the group sound.

ceemonster - Posted - 05/03/2018:  00:51:55

[[[Sorry, no one was or is being slammed and no one was identified]]]

I've been busy and am on my first BH visit in a couple of days---So sorry if my two cents gave an impression it was focused on the OP. It was not. It was focused on a couple of others who shook fingers at the person who put in an opinion about wanting/needing a close tab/sound file match as a beginner.