chrisb5string - Posted - 10/22/2018:  07:20:02

I have been the recipient of a beautiful TB-00 conversion. I received the original tenor in great condition as an appreciation gift upon leaving my former job. The Banjo has a new 5 string neck by Mr. Rock Bartley and is a very close replica of the original neck. The banjo plays great, but with just the head over the wood bead on the rim, it sounds kind of tinny and thin. I've experimented with the sound and I put a piece of foam rubber in the resonator which cuts the edge off the overtones and gives it a nice darker tone as a contrast to my 1928 TB-3 conversion-which is a bluegrass monster. I'm hoping a couple of new bridges from bridge master Bart FVeerman will help the tone of the TB-00.

My question is: Is the TB-00 defined as a "flathead" ? The head is certainly flat!. I am well aware that the TB-00 was the cheapest banjo, and it certainly does not have the tone and clarity of my Mastertone, but it is still a pre war Gibson, and the head is certainly flat!

As a former Kalamazoo MI resident, I will never part with these banjos, so the description of the TB-00 is not a sales gimmick....just a question on this cold October day.

TB-00

TB-00

In action with ole 9024-81 TB-3

 

Aradobanjo - Posted - 10/22/2018:  08:25:12

Hello,

Nice banjo. My TB-00/01 has a brass hoop. That makes it a flathead. It makes it very light also.

eagleisland - Posted - 10/22/2018:  08:26:27

Well, I suppose one could argue that the technical answer is yes, in that the head goes all the way across from one side of the pot to the other without any change in elevation.

However, my understanding is that the term "flathead" is popularly used in the discussion of banjos with cast tone rings, which TB00s don't have (unless we're talking double conversion), and the point of differentiation is whether the head lies flat across the ring - with the highest point at the outer edge - or whether it's a raised-head or pyramid-style ring, which raises the head somewhat between the edge of the pot and the top of the ring.

fngrpikr - Posted - 10/22/2018:  08:33:34

Try putting a Fibreskin head on it. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Aradobanjo - Posted - 10/22/2018:  09:23:06

Hello,

What is funny are the two extreme camps a bluegrass banjo has to be in, FH or AT. Since a TB-00 isn’t an AT, then it must be a FH.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/22/2018:  09:45:25

A legitimate question. The arch top/flathead distinction applies to other than Gibson banjos. The old Paramounts and Orpheums are archtops, e.g., as are Weymann Megaphonics. So, Mastertones aside, archtop and flathead are useful descriptive terms for banjos.

kyleb - Posted - 10/22/2018:  09:53:07

in terms of semantics? i guess. but the term flathead refers to a specific type of tone ring, which this lacks, so no, for the sake of future ebay sales, lets make sure we clarify that a banjo needs to have a flathead style tone ring to be a flathead banjo. A prewar gibson 00 is not a prewar gibson flathead. I can see the $100,000 tb-00 posted already...

Nathan Nisley - Posted - 10/22/2018:  10:17:42

quote:

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Originally posted by kyleb

in terms of semantics? i guess. but the term flathead refers to a specific type of tone ring, which this lacks, so no, for the sake of future ebay sales, lets make sure we clarify that a banjo needs to have a flathead style tone ring to be a flathead banjo. A prewar gibson 00 is not a prewar gibson flathead. I can see the $100,000 tb-00 posted already...

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Kyleb is correct. In the world of pre-war Gibsons, if you say you have a flathead banjo, people will automatically understand that you have a banjo with a flathead tone ring.

P.S.  Rock Bartley is a nice guy and good picker! 

Edited by - Nathan Nisley on 10/22/2018 10:18:05

jwold - Posted - 10/22/2018:  10:37:43

I thought (and I'm not an expert) that even tb-00's came with at least a brass hoop on them? You mentioned the head is stretched over the wood pot only, perhaps your brass hoop is missing? Perhaps if you added the brass hoop back, it could favorably alter the tone? Seems there are plenty of FT hoop banjos like this with great sound. Just a thought.

kyleb - Posted - 10/22/2018:  10:49:10

nope the 00 had only a wood bead cut in the rim, i have one and love the sound, they still crack and have excellent volume and you can pull great tone.

fngrpikr - Posted - 10/22/2018:  11:25:40

If you do take the head off be sure and post some photos of the top of that flatheaded rim...

Emiel - Posted - 10/22/2018:  11:33:53

Vega advertised the Vega Earl Scruggs model as being a flathead banjo, "like Earl Scruggs prefers". In this example, a flathead banjo had a tubaphone tonering, not a Gibson flathead tonering…

revellfa - Posted - 10/22/2018:  11:46:43

quote:

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Originally posted by Emiel

Vega advertised the Vega Earl Scruggs model as being a flathead banjo, "like Earl Scruggs prefers". In this example, a flathead banjo had a tubaphone tonering, not a Gibson flathead tonering…

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So how about "flathead appearance" does that work?

Emiel - Posted - 10/22/2018:  12:11:01

"Flathead appearance" will always work and will prevent misunderstandings.

revellfa - Posted - 10/22/2018:  18:44:12

BTW those 00 banjos are fantastic.  Those sub mastertones can really crack.  I've owned several and am a big fan.  Strangely, I've never owned a brass hoop Gibson--but these Kalamazoos and 00s are simply fantastic!

Here's one with my Kalamazoo youtube.com/watch?v=4dUVoLQNYpU

Bk2olKY - Posted - 10/23/2018:  03:41:31

quote:

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Originally posted by revellfa

BTW those 00 banjos are fantastic.  Those sub mastertones can really crack.  I've owned several and am a big fan.  Strangely, I've never owned a brass hoop Gibson--but these Kalamazoos and 00s are simply fantastic!

Here's one with my Kalamazoo youtube.com/watch?v=4dUVoLQNYpU

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Banjo sounds great Frankie! Go Mountaineers!

chrisb5string - Posted - 10/23/2018:  07:12:02

quote:

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Originally posted by kyleb

in terms of semantics? i guess. but the term flathead refers to a specific type of tone ring, which this lacks, so no, for the sake of future ebay sales, lets make sure we clarify that a banjo needs to have a flathead style tone ring to be a flathead banjo. A prewar gibson 00 is not a prewar gibson flathead. I can see the $100,000 tb-00 posted already...

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chrisb5string - Posted - 10/23/2018:  07:15:31

Not from me. I grew up in the Kalamazoo MI area and lived there for many years. This banjo and my 1928 TB-3 conversion are part of my life. I have played both of these banjos in the original Parsons St. factory ( just for old times sake)

chrisb5string - Posted - 10/23/2018:  07:22:40

Looks like the answer is : a "flathead" or "archtop" relates to a tone ring style and not necessarily the whole banjo. I would have suspected that, but I never really knew. I care not one bit what that description means in regard to value, the true value is in the gift that this banjo was to me. I'll post a little audio clip of this tb-00....it has a decent tone with that nice Rock B. set up.

chrisb5string - Posted - 10/23/2018:  10:57:47

youtube.com/watch?v=r3Kapcx17jQ

youtube.com/watch?v=KFp8nxwZVg8

here are a  couple quick clips I did to show the sound of this beauty.   Recorded on my iphone, but even so, I like the overall tone quality.  Note the foam stuffed in the resonator  to dampen the overtones.  

lazyarcher - Posted - 10/23/2018:  13:32:39

All Gibson rims are flat so without a hoop or tone ring, they appear flat.
The term "flathead" and "archtop" as has been said, refer entirely to the description of the tone ring...in banjo-speak

Garry Greenland - Posted - 10/24/2018:  15:29:05

Only a little humour here - most banjo players are "flatheads" :-)