MrsM - Posted - 08/05/2021:  10:05:19

Hi,

I am in the UK and own a Bart Reiter Whyte Ladye - don't expect there are too many of those over here. My problem is I am finding it just too heavy for me. I am a 5' female and this is a beautiful but heavy instrument.

In order to buy a new banjo I need to sell this one but have no idea of it's value. It is is stunning condition, no cracks. The only modification is it has a JD Balch calf skin head.

So any idea what it would be a selling price and recommendations for a lightweight but top notch open back.

Thank you :)

YellowSkyBlueSun - Posted - 08/05/2021:  10:16:18

There's one listed in the the classifieds for $1650. I'd start there. Hard to say if being in the UK raises or lowers the value, supply is lower but so is the customer base.

Keep in mind Bart Reiter retired last year, so what's out there is all that ever will be. I'm not sure how this has affected used values but it's something to consider.

MrsM - Posted - 08/05/2021:  10:23:09

Hi

Thank you for your response. I have never come across anyone else in the UK with one of these so really am at a loss. Last Bart Reiter that sold over here was the basic model and that went for £1700 - around $2200. Mrs M :)

hobogal - Posted - 08/05/2021:  11:41:32

I don't know about price but I would think it would be highly desirable for old-time music (it is really expensive to import US made banjos, he is a well-respected builder plus he has recently retired).  You could advertise it here on the Hangout and also through FOATMAD:foaotmad.weebly.com/  

Eagle music have some interesting banjos you could try: Ome Tupelo, the Ode Magician and Sundance models, Nechville Atlas....although they never show whether items are in-stock, best check first.

Edited by - hobogal on 08/05/2021 11:48:25

Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/05/2021:  12:20:17

Please post pictures. Bart made several different iterations of his White Laydie—they vary in value according to their construction and decoration. As the years passsed, he simplified construction and inlay work. A few early ones can fetch 2,500 USD. Late ones, with far plainer inlays and simpler pot construction, can sell for !,000 USD less, particularly because they are not substantially different than Regent or Galax models from those years.

Edited by - Bill Rogers on 08/05/2021 12:22:11

MrsM - Posted - 08/05/2021:  14:30:32

hobogal - I have an appointment at Eagle music for Monday afternoon and the banjo I am thinking of is the Ome Tupelo :) They will consider p/x but wanted to get some idea of what my banjo may be worth. :)

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 08/05/2021:  14:39:47

@MrsM photos would be really helpful to those quoting you value, I have a Bart Reiter Grand Concert that i love the voice it has don't believe i will ever part with it, will most likely will it to my son or daughter when i am gone i will agree with you Reiters are heavy for an open back banjo

dbrooks - Posted - 08/05/2021:  14:47:57

One of my students at Kemtucky Music Week had an Ome Tupelo a few years ago. My memory is a bit faded, but I recall it being slightly lighter than a Reiter. If your Reiter has any fancy engraving, it may be worth more than the Tupelo. The Tupelo's 25.5" scale and 2-ply rim will weigh less than the standard scale and 3-ply rim that your Reiter may have. Spend some time to see if you are comfortable with the 12-inch pot compared to the 11-inch pot of your Reiter. I am a Reiter fan, but I did enjoy playing the Tupelo and thought it sounded bquite nice.

David

Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/05/2021:  15:15:35

Dbrooks is correct: Do not get a 12” rim banjo without playing it. Some people (I’m one.) find them awkward and uncomfortable. That said, Ome makes superb banjos. They have styles with and without tone rings and use and have used several different tone rings.

hobogal - Posted - 08/05/2021:  23:33:53

MrsM oooh, how exciting - hope you find something just right for you! :)
quote:Originally posted by MrsMhobogal - I have an appointment at Eagle music for Monday afternoon and the banjo I am thinking of is the Ome Tupelo :) They will consider p/x but wanted to get some idea of what my banjo may be worth. :)

MrsM - Posted - 08/06/2021:  02:35:24

banjohangout.org/forum/attachm...ID=277169banjohangout.org/forum/attachm...r_added.abanjohangout.org/forum/attachm...ID=277170banjohangout.org/forum/attachm...ID=277172

MrsM - Posted - 08/06/2021:  02:35:59

struggling to work out how to add photos - duh!

 

MrsM - Posted - 08/06/2021:  03:26:16

trying to add more photos :)
banjohangout.org/forum/attachm...ID=277171banjohangout.org/forum/attachm...ID=277170

AndrewD - Posted - 08/06/2021:  05:17:04

If you look at the used(SOLD) list on the Eagle site they sold a plainer, brass hoop Reiter for £1600. This fancier Whyte Laydie should be easily swappable for a £2000 Ome Tupelo with a bit to spare.
If you haven't played a 12" before then spend some time trying it out at Eagle before you commit. It may seem comfortable for a few minutes - But not after a 3 hour session. The only regular at our session who plays a 12" is well over 6 feet tall.

JSB88 - Posted - 08/06/2021:  05:26:28

That is one beautiful banjo, I bet the tone is beautiful too

MrsM - Posted - 08/06/2021:  08:45:44

AndrewD thank you for taking the time to repsond.
I spoke to Matt at Eagle music today about pt/ex but only if I upgrade and suspect he will want a fair bit of money from me to do that.
If Eagle sell it on consignment, they charge 33% commission and that is moe than I had expected.
I am getting a bit stressed about it as the situation for me is I have had surgery for cancer that has left me with scar tissue and soft tissue damage in my left shoulder and upper arm,
So I have the most beautiful and for the UK, rare instrument that is just too heavy for me to play.
I could just hang onto it for a while as it isn't going to depreciate and go buy myself a Deering Goodtime so at least I can start enjoying playing again.

JSB88 - it is indeed a beautiful tone - best old time sound I have ever heard especially having the calf skin head on it. :)

Remsleep - Posted - 08/06/2021:  10:21:50

MrsM, I don't know where in the UK you are, but you may wish to contact Phillip Alexander at  John Alvery Turner in Camden Town, London. He certainly takes in higher end banjos for resale. Whether and on what terms he does consignment sales I cannot say, but it cannot hurt to talk with him. He is knowledgeable and pleasant to deal with, at least in my experience. Best of luck.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/06/2021:  12:00:15

33% commission is way too high. Sounds like they really don’t want consignments. You need to post a pic of the banjo shell (the round part) from the back. You have a fairly early Reiter that’s likely worth over 2,000USD, maybe more depending on the shell.

ceemonster - Posted - 08/06/2021:  13:48:12

I believe the rim construction of Reiter Whyte Laydies remained a constant throughout the run--these banjos got an American-made 5/8" thickness 3- ply rim of the type that usually goes into Gibson-style bluegrass resonator banjos. They are very sturdy and give a strong sound.

What differed was, some Reiter WLs got a metal casing known as a bracket band--this was a feature of the classic full-spec original Fairbanks/Vega Whyte Laydies.

As the Reiter WL simplified over the years, the sturdy 3-ply 5/8 rims continued, but bracket bands ceased as a feature. Some of the fancier earlier models also got a high-gloss finish which became more matte over the years.

Inlay--there can also be inlay differences--early on, there were WLs with super-fancy inlay in the style of the antique Fairbanks or Vega "Whyte Laydie No. 9," versus lovely and elegant but simpler, "Whyte Laydie No. 2" inlay So that is something else that can make a significant price differential in a Reiter WL.

MrsM - Posted - 08/06/2021:  14:17:34

could someone please explain how I add a photo banjohangout.org/forum/attachm...ID=277170

MrsM - Posted - 08/06/2021:  14:22:43

fingers crossed for photos serial number is 2238

Edited by - MrsM on 08/06/2021 14:23:59

Bart Reiter 3

Bart Reiter 2

Bart Reiter 1

 

Bill Rogers - Posted - 08/06/2021:  15:52:24

Okay, you have an earlier banjo, but not one with a bracket band, which would be the least common and most valuable version of the Reiter White Laydie. I’ll stay with my estimate of US$2,000+. This is an excellent and not overly common banjo. tt may not be as in-demand in the UK as it would be here in the US, but if you’re patient it should bring a good return. If you don’t sell it yourself, I hope you can find a reasonable arrangement with a dealer.

JSB88 - Posted - 08/07/2021:  13:01:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by Remsleep

MrsM, I don't know where in the UK you are, but you may wish to contact Phillip Alexander at  John Alvery Turner in Camden Town, London. He certainly takes in higher end banjos for resale. Whether and on what terms he does consignment sales I cannot say, but it cannot hurt to talk with him. He is knowledgeable and pleasant to deal with, at least in my experience. Best of luck.

---

I recently bought a banjo from here and found him excellent to deal with. I don't know about commission sales but he does do part ex and has some lovely turn of the century banjos

MrsM - Posted - 08/07/2021:  13:11:28

Remsleep
I shall see how I get on at Eagle Music on Monday afternoon. I am not an advanced player and only play for my own pleasure - my ideal would be to come away with a nice Deering and some cash but don't think that is likely. So thank you very much for the recommendation for John Avery Turner.

I prefer not to do a private sale as the truth is I have a banjo way beyond my playing capability and technical understanding. I bought in over in the States and brought it home on the Queen Mary 2 :)

My priority is to get a banjo that is reliable and weighs around 5 pounds - this Reiter is almost 15 pounds and just too heavy for me. :)

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 08/07/2021:  22:05:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrsM

Remsleep

I shall see how I get on at Eagle Music on Monday afternoon. I am not an advanced player and only play for my own pleasure - my ideal would be to come away with a nice Deering and some cash but don't think that is likely. So thank you very much for the recommendation for John Avery Turner.



I prefer not to do a private sale as the truth is I have a banjo way beyond my playing capability and technical understanding. I bought in over in the States and brought it home on the Queen Mary 2 :)



My priority is to get a banjo that is reliable and weighs around 5 pounds - this Reiter is almost 15 pounds and just too heavy for me. :)

---

That is heavy for an open back i thought my Reiter Grand Concert was heavy but it is no where close to 15 pounds that is closer in weight to the Resonator banjo I have are you sure the scale you used to weigh it on was working correctly that just seems quite heavy for the banjo you have

Edited by - Don Smith1959 on 08/07/2021 22:06:40

ceemonster - Posted - 08/07/2021:  22:54:06

The Bart Reiter website had a serial number dating list the last I checked. That might be helpful.

hobogal - Posted - 08/07/2021:  23:30:08

Good luck tomorrow MrsM - if you are not sure about the deal, I would say give yourself time to think about it (esp if Eagle music prefer you to do a commission sale and that is not a good deal). You could also try Hobgoblin music and see how they compare. Maybe you could buy a cheaper banjo without selling your collectors item (e.g. paypal credit paying over 4months at 0%....).  At least, you will get a chance to try out some banjos in person tomorrow and see what you like.

Edited by - hobogal on 08/07/2021 23:33:28

gentrixuk - Posted - 08/08/2021:  01:39:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by hobogal

Good luck tomorrow MrsM - if you are not sure about the deal, I would say give yourself time to think about it (esp if Eagle music prefer you to do a commission sale and that is not a good deal). You could also try Hobgoblin music and see how they compare. Maybe you could buy a cheaper banjo without selling your collectors item (e.g. paypal credit paying over 4months at 0%....).  At least, you will get a chance to try out some banjos in person tomorrow and see what you like.

---

I think Carrie has hit the nail on the head. You have a great banjo, a good budget, and a lot of options. This is your chance to find your ideal banjo. Take your time trying different things out tomorrow and, most of all, have some fun doing it!

dbrooks - Posted - 08/08/2021:  05:31:06

I too like the idea of buying a second banjo and taking your time with selling the Reiter. You would be unable to replace the Reiter, and even finding an equivalent banjo that is lighter may not be possible.

David

MrsM - Posted - 08/08/2021:  08:27:36

Don Smith1959 checked weight again 13.5 pounds. It is a 2002 model.



Thinking of p/ex to a Deering Vega vintage Star or Deering Vega white oak- going to try them out tomorrow and hope the figures add up for me :)

Edited by - MrsM on 08/08/2021 08:38:16

MrsM - Posted - 08/08/2021:  08:34:11

gentrixuk and hobo gal - I shan't sleep tonight - have had this Reiter a long time now and am so excited to be trying out new banjos.



I have already decided if the p/x is not a fair deal I will buy a Goodtime and bring my Reiter home. I can afford £400 and at least will have a decent instrument to play - I can't play the Reiter for more than 10 minutes without discomfort now.



But if the stars are in my favour, I shall be coming home with the Deering Vega Vintage Star or the Deering white oak.



Eagle sold a basic open back Retier for £1600 recently so they could easily sell this one for 2k+



Anyway, people on this thread have been just great and I will let everyone know how I get on tomorrow. :)

Edited by - MrsM on 08/08/2021 08:37:54

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 08/08/2021:  15:26:31

@MrsM

I agree with others in purchasing a second banjo and taking your time selling the Reiter the Reiter is just to nice of a Banjo just to trade for a lighter banjo



Take your time and get what you want for your Reiter or just keep it because you may never get a chance to purchase another Reiter since he retired

just like the Grand Concert I have I believe they will only go up in Value

Edited by - Don Smith1959 on 08/08/2021 15:27:35

jbalch - Posted - 08/08/2021:  19:27:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by Don Smith1959

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrsM

Remsleep

I shall see how I get on at Eagle Music on Monday afternoon. I am not an advanced player and only play for my own pleasure - my ideal would be to come away with a nice Deering and some cash but don't think that is likely. So thank you very much for the recommendation for John Avery Turner.



I prefer not to do a private sale as the truth is I have a banjo way beyond my playing capability and technical understanding. I bought in over in the States and brought it home on the Queen Mary 2 :)



My priority is to get a banjo that is reliable and weighs around 5 pounds - this Reiter is almost 15 pounds and just too heavy for me. :)

---

That is heavy for an open back i thought my Reiter Grand Concert was heavy but it is no where close to 15 pounds that is closer in weight to the Resonator banjo I have are you sure the scale you used to weigh it on was working correctly that just seems quite heavy for the banjo you have

---

My maple-neck Reiter Bacophone-Plus (with both: whyte laydie + Bacon tone rings) weighs only 7.2lbs.  No way a regular (non-bracket-band) WL would be much different than that.   

550Spyder - Posted - 08/09/2021:  17:10:16

quote:

---

Originally posted by jbalch

 

---

My maple-neck Reiter Bacophone-Plus (with both: whyte laydie + Bacon tone rings) weighs only 7.2lbs.  No way a regular (non-bracket-band) WL would be much different than that.   

---

I was curious so I weighed my 1990 Reiter WL with a bracket band and it's 8lb 1oz, 16lbs 12oz in the Reiter supplied hardshell case.

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 08/09/2021:  19:54:08

I am going to have to weigh my Grand concert now just to compare it has gotten me curious

The weight MrsM posted up just does not seem correct to me but i may be wrong will also weigh my Rickard which is a 11 inch maple whyte laydie and post both weights up

Edited by - Don Smith1959 on 08/09/2021 19:57:47

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 08/09/2021:  20:48:31

Ok weighed my Reiter Grand Concert it weighs 7.6 pounds my Rickard 11 inch Maple Whyte Laydie which is like MrsMs Reiter but fewer hooks is 6.8 pounds

YellowSkyBlueSun - Posted - 08/10/2021:  05:15:10

The thought of trading a Bart Reiter WL for any model Deering nearly makes me sick to my stomach. But to each their own.

dbrooks - Posted - 08/10/2021:  05:59:47

When I worked in system analysis and process reengineering, I had a mentor tell me, "One measurement is worth a thousand opinions." So true.

David

hobogal - Posted - 08/10/2021:  07:17:24

Are we getting side-tracked with how much the banjo weighs - that really wasn't the poster's question - anyway, she has had surgery so comfort is the key issue. 

Edited by - hobogal on 08/10/2021 07:21:02

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 08/10/2021:  12:32:00

quote:

---

Originally posted by hobogal

Are we getting side-tracked with how much the banjo weighs - that really wasn't the poster's question - anyway, she has had surgery so comfort is the key issue. 

---

We are not getting side tracked at all, By MrsMs initial post she did make it about the weight of her Reiter

She did state in her initial post her Reiter weighed 15 pounds which I found hard to believe she then corrected it and stated it weighed 13.5 pounds i believe in another reply to my reply she is looking for a lighter banjo because of her operation so MrsM made it about the weight of her Reiter 

the weights MrsM stated are closer to a Resonator banjo then a open back banjo

based on some of the replies of others and the weight of both my Reckard and my Reiter Grand Concert which has the same amount of hardware as well as added wood for the internal resonator there is absolutely no way MrsMs Reiter could weigh the stated weights so without knowing the actual weight of MrsMs Reiter how is anyone supposed to recomend a lighter banjo

Edited by - Don Smith1959 on 08/10/2021 12:49:19

Jimmy Sutton - Posted - 08/12/2021:  02:57:31

I may be coming here a bit late but for what it is worth I also live in the UK and own a Reiter Whyte Ladye
the number is 394 which was made in 1989.

I would estimate a fair price would be around £1600 ($2000).
You might want to contact the FOAOTM in he UK (That is Friends American Old Time Music). They have a website. Many of them will be at their Summer Camp right now, playing around the clock. You may well find a customer there bearing in mind the expense of importing from across the pond.

Jack Adams - Posted - 08/12/2021:  06:46:25

Just weighed my 1919 Vega Whyte Laydie with the Bart Reiter neck; looks like it comes to just under 3 kilos with strap, pickup and hose section mute. Purchased in 1987 at Mandolin Bros. Staten Island for 1500 USD.

Anyone know what it may go for......? ( I live in France )

Edited by - Jack Adams on 08/12/2021 06:58:36

JSB88 - Posted - 08/12/2021:  08:56:02

quote:

---

Originally posted by hobogal

Are we getting side-tracked with how much the banjo weighs - that really wasn't the poster's question - anyway, she has had surgery so comfort is the key issue. 

---

I agree. It doesn't matter what it weighs, the OP is finding it too heavy. The key is - something lighter than what she has. If you're lucky enough to have a Reiter WL, you don't need to point out what it 'actually' weighs, you will know from your real life experience what is lighter. 

Don Smith1959 - Posted - 08/12/2021:  12:43:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by JSB88

quote:

---

Originally posted by hobogal

Are we getting side-tracked with how much the banjo weighs - that really wasn't the poster's question - anyway, she has had surgery so comfort is the key issue. 

---

I agree. It doesn't matter what it weighs, the OP is finding it too heavy. The key is - something lighter than what she has. If you're lucky enough to have a Reiter WL, you don't need to point out what it 'actually' weighs, you will know from your real life experience what is lighter. 

---

Ok so based on your statement in recoment a Rickard 

Like I said in an earlier reply how can anyone recommend a lighter banjo without knowing how heavy her Rieter actually is 

YOU CANNOT

The only way she will be able to find a lighter banjo that is comfortable to her is to go try a bunch of different banjos 

Bill Lee - Posted - 08/13/2021:  05:12:28

Bill Lee

Noting with interest the query from Mrs M regarding her desire for a more lighter replacement for her Bart Reiter 'Whyte Lady'. From her initial assumption it is surprising how many Reiters are now cropping up in the UK - maybe we should a start an Owner's Club !
I own a 'Special' which I bought in Carmel Music in 1998 and am pleased with my purchase. For those of a keen disposition, the Serial Number is 1232 putting it around 1995. We were on a pleasant holiday In California and doing a round of Yosemite and the vineyards. Getting the instrument back to the UK was interesting inasmuch as the case had to be packed out with lightweight sorbo-packing purchased from a local model shop it all worked well and a sigh of relief was noticeable as the airport services appeared with the case in Newcastle International Airport.
I sincerely hope that Mrs M finds a lighter option to the 'Lady' but do not sell it, keep it you will regret letting it go.

MrsM - Posted - 08/13/2021:  11:42:02

Hello all you lovely people - I am overwhelmed at how many of you have taken the trouble to respond - thank you :)



So I went to eagle Music in the UK on Monday. the first revelation was my suitcase weigh scales are way out of synch. My BR WL weighs in at 7.4lbs - which to me feels heavy. I tried several different banjos including a few Ome but the one i really liked because of the weight was a Nechville Atlas. Even though it has a 12" pot, that amazing wooden rim makes it super comfy for me. But I didn't make any decision and left my BR with them for new strings a service and set up.



I went back today. I could have cried. The difference In the BR with new strings, the cleaning and set up is beyond amazing. It sounds truly wonderful. All the ebony fret boards are polished, all the chrome work is shiny, the head is tighter... and they charged me £35 - $50.



I have come away with my beautiful Bart Reiter which I am keeping. I have also bought a new Deering Goodtime Parlour banjo which is super light and the shorter neck means I can practice new pieces and learn new tricks without getting muscle fatigue. Then once I have learned can play them on the BR.



I feel so happy. The people at Eagle Music acknowledged I am not going to lose money on the BR and to hang on to it until something I really do fall in love with comes along. But you know, this banjo, well I went all the way to Chicago to buy it, it travelled home on the Queen Mary 2 all the way across the Atlnatic by ship, ... maybe we are just meant to be together :)



So thank you everyone, am happily learning some new licks and tricks on the Goodtime and shall continue to take good care of the BR :) xx

Edited by - MrsM on 08/13/2021 11:44:22