timsch - Posted - 05/08/2025:  08:26:02

I opened up the case of my Vegaphone banjo last night and found this, much to my surprise:

I've not had this banjo long, and have no idea how old the head is.  I did reset the neck with a shim and tensioned it up using the nickel/dime gap method.  I also swapped out a shorter bridge (5/8 vs 3/4").  I played it a bit before putting it away without issue a few weeks ago.  

I don't think anything like the case falling over onto its face happened.  I didn't feel any imperfections on the bottom of the bridge.   

Any thoughts on how this might have happened?

Any particular recommendations on a head for a Vega Vegaphone, 5-string conversion?

 

Knows Picker - Posted - 05/08/2025:  08:37:52

Maybe back off about a quarter turn on a few of those lugs.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 05/08/2025:  08:42:53

Humidity change to "dry" will do it with calfskin. I heard my piccolo split one evening. Sounded like a gunshot in the room...got my attention!

One is supposed to tighten/loosen the head with changes in humidity (again, skin heads). The spring and fall A/C v Heat change can do it.

Plastic is unaffected by humidity so latent defects or age might do it. I've never had a plastic head split down the middle. I have peeled the flesh-hoop off of one when mounting it.

The Old Timer - Posted - 05/08/2025:  08:51:29

This is why plastic banjo heads were invented.

Suggestion? The usual standard Vega head was 10 15/16". But ithey sometimes varied to well over 11". Measure head diameter exactly to the 1/16", from the outer edges of the head in 3 different spots and average them. Plastic heads are easy to get in that size, about $30. A GOOD calfskin head with a uniform white color and surface finish is quite a bit fussier. There are a few suppliers here on the HangOut who supply them made to order. Balch, and Smakula are two that I have dealt with and been very satisified (they can provide them mounted or "raw"). Mounted heads can cost $100+.

Don't despair, this is not a huge deal. The old timers pre 1960 more less resigned themselves to busted heads and usually carried a spare with them.

If you've never changed a head, there are plenty of instruction videos in the archives here. Not a big deal if you work slowly and methodically.

lapsteel - Posted - 05/08/2025:  18:34:46

After you install the new head, check to determine if there are any sharp corners on the bottom of your bridge. Sand them off with a chunk of relatively fine grit paper.

timsch - Posted - 05/08/2025:  19:35:11

Are there any plastic ones that are more highly regarded than the rest? I'm new to this.

Thanks everyone.

The Old Timer - Posted - 05/08/2025:  19:59:29

Standard used by almost everyone is Remo Weatherking with top white frosting. Medium crown. Can't go wrong. Mail order from folks like Stewart MacDonald in Ohio. Make sure you get the diameter right.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 05/08/2025:  23:32:36

Was air conditioning turned on for the first tiime since you got the banjo? That would really lower the humidity quickly.

timsch - Posted - 05/09/2025:  03:42:18

Possibly. We get wild swings in humidity down here on the Gulf anyway. Regardless, I'm going plastic now.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 05/09/2025:  05:19:54

Alex Z - Posted - 05/09/2025:  10:14:54

". . . tensioned it up using the nickel/dime gap method."

"Any thoughts on how this might have happened?"

It's not temperature/humidity alone that splits a calfskin head.  An unmounted piece of calfskin does not split on its own.

It's temperature/humidity coupled with tension.

The coin gap method is for plastic heads.  It puts a lot of tension in the head (as evidenced by the deviation reading in a DrumDial).  Add to that some shrinkage of the calfskin head due to change in humidity, which adds more tension, and there's the split!

Will let others more experienced explain how to get a reasonable tension in a calfskin head, and how much to allow for, or to adjust for, as the weather changes.

timsch - Posted - 05/09/2025:  11:14:48

"The coin gap method is for plastic heads."

That makes perfect sense.  Newbie mistake - knowing just enough to be dangerous.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 05/09/2025:  11:27:35

The general goal I use is tight enough to keep the bridge from sagging. The only reason to tighten the head on damp days would be during a concert and then take it back down after.

Now, I use "period" nylon strings which are much lower tension than wire and exert less pressure on the head.

The "modern bridge" was designed with wide feet to attempt to counteract this pressure from steel strings by spreading out the pressure.

I do have a set of period elton head lights that I rewired that also work to tighten the head on damp days (and looks cool too). But I have only used them a few times.

The fact is, I have plastic head banjos that are fuss free. And while I keep a few banjos with calf heads for conjuring the souls and sounds of 19th century composers, my daily players get plastic.

timsch - Posted - 05/09/2025:  11:27:49

Regarding the Remo Weatherking with top white frosting, is that a recommendation regardless of style? Asking just in case that is a great one for 5-finger style bluegrass, but not so great for openback clawhammer? I'm primarily an old-time clawhammer player.

I understand there's never one answer, but just in general....

pinenut - Posted - 05/09/2025:  11:44:05

quote:

---

Originally posted by timsch

Regarding the Remo Weatherking with top white frosting, is that a recommendation regardless of style? 

I understand there's never one answer, but just in general....

---

Big picture: thinner heads attenuate higher frequencies less than thicker heads...

Amber, frosted or suede will all make banjoey goodness; use what is available.

note: I believe vegaphone equals tubaphone tone ring, the amber was not a good fit for me.  I like amber heads, just, not on a tubaphone or flathead.  Too much presence, not enough range, warmth and nuance.

Bob provides an awesome reference (below)

smakulafrettedinstruments.com/...njo-heads

Edited by - pinenut on 05/09/2025 12:00:07

Joel Hooks - Posted - 05/09/2025:  12:02:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by timsch

Regarding the Remo Weatherking with top white frosting, is that a recommendation regardless of style? Asking just in case that is a great one for 5-finger style bluegrass, but not so great for openback clawhammer? I'm primarily an old-time clawhammer player.



I understand there's never one answer, but just in general....

---

I use the top frosted for my banjos.  The yellow/gold Renaissance sound good, though tend to stretch out, and are pretty ugly.  The clear heads are a no go for me, even if they were the greatest sounding. 

I did buy one of those "white suede" heads but have not put it on a banjo yet. 

timsch - Posted - 05/09/2025:  12:24:39

"Bob provides an awesome reference (below)



smakulafrettedinstruments.com/...ads"



Thanks for the reference, Kam. Looking at the descriptions, I was thinking that the Fiberskyn option with the " Old time banjo players often prefer the fuller sound" description would be a good one. I noticed that it is significantly thicker than the options you'd mentioned.



What crown height do you have with your tubaphone? I measure 1/2" on my Goodtime, but the Vega is 3/4 (camera angle makse it look like less), assuming I'm measuring it right.  Largest I see offered at Smakula's is high crown - 1/2").    Is there anything else I need to do to transition from a skin to a plastic head?

Joel Hooks - Posted - 05/09/2025:  12:57:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by timsch

"Bob provides an awesome reference (below)



smakulafrettedinstruments.com/...ads"



Thanks for the reference, Kam. Looking at the descriptions, I was thinking that the Fiberskyn option with the " Old time banjo players often prefer the fuller sound" description would be a good one. I noticed that it is significantly thicker than the options you'd mentioned.



What crown height do you have with your tubaphone? I measure 1/2" on my Goodtime, but the Vega is 3/4 (camera angle makse it look like less), assuming I'm measuring it right.  Largest I see offered at Smakula's is high crown - 1/2").    Is there anything else I need to do to transition from a skin to a plastic head?

---

You are reading it wrong.  Use a good ruler and not a tape measure, calipers are even better. 

The image looks like 19/32 but I'd be willing to bet it is 5/8" which is 1/8" over 1/2".  The hoop is notched for the fingerboard by 1/8".  Your banjo needs a high crown. 

pinenut - Posted - 05/09/2025:  13:13:40

I use medium crown. This brings the tension ring cutout at the neck up level and the the rest of the ring is a little proud of the head.  Perfect.

A stock Goodtime uses a high crown because it doesn't have the string cutout on the tension hoop.



I have tried to appreciate fiberskyn; I don't like them on anything. Fiberskyn sounds like a well adjusted mute and kills the voice.  Zero sparkle.  Even skin heads have sparkle on their good days.  To me, sparkle, tinkle or that something else is a magic in a well made and adjusted instruments voice that fills out the ear; it's good and hard to describe

Tubaphones and flatheads have a strong voice and seem to 'yell' all the time with the renaissance/amber heads, even playing softly.  Otherwise, amber is my go-to for most any other banjo, especially the old Gumby.  note: i play clawhammer and a tiny bit of 3-finger without picks

I agree with Joel on the thicker clear heads.  They can sound nice and poppy.  But, aesthetic NOPE.

The top frosted or 5-star is a nice baseline for anything.

The black suede has a more gentle and sweet voice on a strong banjo (white would probably look better but $$)

Edited by - pinenut on 05/09/2025 13:29:00

timsch - Posted - 05/09/2025:  13:31:56

"You are reading it wrong.  Use a good ruler and not a tape measure, calipers are even better. "

I'll blame it on Remo, but point taken.

pinenut - Posted - 05/09/2025:  14:50:13

The place to measure and evaluate is where the neck meets the pot.



Look closely at the measurement of the tension hoop under the strings at the neck when estimating crown height.

Remember to consider the elevation of the frets and fingerboard in relation to the tension hoop and head.

smakulafrettedinstruments.com/...uide.html

Edited by - pinenut on 05/09/2025 14:57:45

ssduke - Posted - 05/09/2025:  15:00:06

Another vote for top-frosted white Remo. Over the years I’ve used fyberskin, renaissance, calfskin, but like the frosted best. I’ve got a calfskin on a Tubaphone, but my main player is a Tubaphone with a frosted Remo. I agree with Kam that the fyberskin just kills the tone.

mrphysics55 - Posted - 05/11/2025:  09:29:07

GOAT

Joel Hooks - Posted - 05/11/2025:  09:42:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by timsch

"You are reading it wrong.  Use a good ruler and not a tape measure, calipers are even better. "

I'll blame it on Remo, but point taken.

---

Well, that explaines why Remo is inconsistent in size and I find that high crown heads are not always high crown and require heat gun stretching.

Tape measures are good for rough framing/carpentry that does not require precision and measuring rooms for furniture.  They are not that accurate.  

timsch - Posted - 05/16/2025:  10:21:03

"I use medium crown. This brings the tension ring cutout at the neck up level and the the rest of the ring is a little proud of the head.  Perfect."

Kam,  is this on a Vega vegaphone/tubaphone?   What benefit does the tension ring sitting more proud than with a high crown give you?  

On another note, while I have it apart, it could use some refinishing.  The neck looks to have been finished with a colored finish that is now coming off.  I know there is colored polyurethane.  Is that what would be typically used?   I'd have expected an actual stain with a clear finish for a quality neck.  The tone ring has some peeling chrome, which I guess I'm just SOL about, unless in went for a full rechrome job.   Cleaning up around the brackets that hold the tensioners looks like a minor PITA unless they come off, which I don't see an obvious way that happens.    

pinenut - Posted - 05/21/2025:  11:41:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by timsch

"I use medium crown. This brings the tension ring cutout at the neck up level and the the rest of the ring is a little proud of the head.  Perfect."

Kam,  is this on a Vega vegaphone/tubaphone?   What benefit does the tension ring sitting more proud than with a high crown give you?  

---

 Hi Tim,

Your banjo has a wonderful patina.  It is comforting to have a quality tool with a little wear and tear that proves reliability.

The pictures show that the head is touching or near touching the lower notch/ledge on the neck.  This interferes with head adjustment and good sound quality (a lot).  Getting the crown height just right will move the tension ring and head bearing edge up and off that ledge.

Other practical reasons for having the tension ring proud of the head:

 - protects the bearing edge of the tone ring and head from bumps and cuts. 

 - moves the edges and pointy parts of the hooks away from the head.

note:  it looks like the neck is not mated as tightly to the rim as it should be.  This may need looking into while it is disassembled.

Edited by - pinenut on 05/21/2025 11:53:53

timsch - Posted - 05/21/2025:  13:01:00

Thanks Kam.  "wonderful patina"  -  Are you implying that you'd leave the neck just the way it is, or was that referring to the chromed finish?  It's been neglected as far as maintenance & cleaning and it could use some, but I don't want to go too far and remove what some would consider Character

The pictures were taken after I'd already disassembled everything to remove the head.  I pieced it back together to show rough alignment of the tension ring & head.  I didn't include the shim I put in to adjust neck angle and didn't really tighten the neck up, so it looks worse than it should.

Regarding the contact with the head & the neck notch, I understand now why you went with medium height.  The current (split) head does measure slightly over 1/2", and it did tighten enough to split, so there's that....

Alex Z - Posted - 05/21/2025:  14:02:29

". . . don't want to go too far and remove what some would consider Character"

Those some folks may consider dirt, previous owner's skin cell detritus, french fry grease, dried spit from singing, and unneeded scratches and  gouges from intentionally careless handling as "character" and "patina".     Those folks will never touch my banjo.  

Character and patina may better refer to honest playing wear over time and natural aging or tarnish of the finish and plating are different, providing they don't interfere with the playability, adjustment, or structure of the instrument, in which case defects ought to be repaired.

This may be hard to believe, but over on the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum "some" brag about how they sprayed some canned freon on the guitar top to crack the nitrocellulose finish so the guitar looks old and exposed to extreme temperatures.  And one "some" took an Exacto knife and actually carved simulated cracks in the finish, very proud of his artistic ability to make the guitar look old.   Not unusual for someone who is selling a recent Martin guitar to point out how the finish is already cracked -- which of course is deemed by the seller to make the guitar sound better.

Relic-ing?   This is intentional decoration, a different issue.

Cleaning and maintaining the instrument is perfectly OK.  Don't worry about preserving someone else's DNA.   

Edited by - Alex Z on 05/21/2025 14:03:27

pinenut - Posted - 05/21/2025:  15:30:25

quote:

---

Originally posted by timsch

1) Thanks Kam.  "wonderful patina"  -  Are you implying that you'd leave the neck just the way it is, or was that referring to the chromed finish?  It's been neglected as far as maintenance & cleaning and it could use some, but I don't want to go too far and remove what some would consider Character

2) The pictures were taken after I'd already disassembled everything to remove the head.  I pieced it back together to show rough alignment of the tension ring & head.  I didn't include the shim I put in to adjust neck angle and didn't really tighten the neck up, so it looks worse than it should.

3) Regarding the contact with the head & the neck notch, I understand now why you went with medium height.  The current (split) head does measure slightly over 1/2", and it did tighten enough to split, so there's that....

---

1) That is a quality banjo that should be an excellent player, cosmetics are relative.  I like my banjo reasonably clean and functional.  If something needs finish, wax, cleaning, repairing or replacing; I do what satisfies me.  I feel that a musical instrument is a very personal extension that should bring joy to the user.  Satisfy your needs/wants/pocketbook first and only.

2) nice!

3) Yeah, I fooled myself with the high crown once (maybe twice).  Now I measure the height of the string notch on the tension hoop and the relative height between the fingerboard and the tone ring.  Then, if I am in doubt, spend extra and get multiple sizes.

Edited by - pinenut on 05/21/2025 15:38:23

timsch - Posted - 06/15/2025:  04:05:56

It's a fool who won't listen to a wise man, and a fool I am.

Then, if I am in doubt, spend extra and get multiple sizes.

And cheap too.  I went with the medium crown only and my 1st impression is that it is sitting too high for my liking with my fingers frequently hitting the tension ring or the hooks.   Moving my hand forward or backward solves this, but no need to limit myself like that.  

Playing my Goodtime, I do hit the tension ring and hooks frequently, but hardly notice it since it is less pronounced and has smoother edges.

So now, I'm paying extra extra with double shipping.  Noone to blame but myself.  

Thanks again, everyone