pinenut - Posted - 01/07/2026:  11:11:11

It is a poor choice, deciding to learn a new tune at the cost of losing known tunes.  (Tune list maintenance time has exceeded practice time.)

When your tune list has has stopped enlarging because learning a new tune means losing known tunes; what do you do?  

Or, what is a reliable and timely method for installing known tunes into deeper more permanent memory?  

Or, how do we make all of the tunes 'sticky'?

lapsteel - Posted - 01/07/2026:  11:43:07

Start making YouTube videos of all your known tunes. You can watch and play along with them later.

carlb - Posted - 01/07/2026:  11:49:31

I did this mostly during COVID. I went down my list and if i didn't know how to start the tune,  I used the Milliner-Koken collection.

mudthumper.com/fiddletunesbook.html

Just looked at the first few measures and the tune came back. I then played it probably 10-12 times. Of coursek, this only works if you can read music.



 

pinenut - Posted - 01/07/2026:  13:36:22

quote:

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Originally posted by carlb

Just looked at the first few measures and the tune came back. I then played it probably 10-12 times. Of course, this only works if you can read music.

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Yeah, rub it in Carl...  Reading music isn't so bad; it's figuring out how to stuff it into a banjo that's challenging.   

banjered - Posted - 01/07/2026:  13:37:19

I know about 200 old time tunes and even more folk songs. When I am going somewhere to jam, farmer's market, re-enactment, I review what I hope fits and wing it from there. Tunes I review in tab notebooks I keep for G/A/Am/D keys. Pretty much constant review on everything. I don't bother learning many new tunes unless I really like them, a little more choosey than I used to be. Know the "golden 100" and wing the rest. banjered

pinenut - Posted - 01/07/2026:  13:45:20

quote:

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Originally posted by banjered

Know the "golden 100" and wing the rest.

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I'll bite.  What are the "golden 100" or a link?

Edited by - pinenut on 01/07/2026 13:45:42

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/07/2026:  14:45:46

Try playing the songs you know about once a week just to keep them in your memory.

Try picking songs out by ear. Once you do that, the song will stick with you. Memorizing is okay when you're learning, but in order to be able to play a song that you haven't played in a while usually means getting out the tab and going over it. If you've learned it by ear, it tends to stay with you. One caveat: fiddle tunes and breakdowns sometimes have to be played often to keep in your mind.

I have probably 300 or more songs that I play/sing. There's no way I could possibly play all of them each day or even each week. None are tabbed songs, all are by ear, so I just pick up the banjo and listen to the music and the brain and fingers just seem to know what to do.

pinenut - Posted - 01/07/2026:  22:23:34

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Hi Sherry, I know your heart is in the right place, but, the 'learn it by ear' and 'it will just happen' statements without support or some way to begin have been a painful empty cup.  Edit to the best of my very recent knowledge below:

Try picking songs out by ear.  I started learning music at about 15 years old and don't remember the process for learning to play by ear; it just happened for me.  I have heard that if a song has been memorized by tab in say a down picking style, that arranging it and learning to play it in an up-picking style without written assistance may be a gateway to learning by ear and fingerboard mapping.  Once you do that, the song will stick with you. Memorizing by tab is okay when you're learning, but in order to be able to play a song that you haven't played in a while usually means getting out the tab and going over it. If you've learned it by ear, it tends to stay with you. One caveat: fiddle tunes and breakdowns sometimes have to be played often to keep in your mind. 

Are you aware of any refinements or additional techniques?

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Edited by - pinenut on 01/07/2026 22:32:33

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/08/2026:  04:15:28

quote:

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Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Hi Sherry, I know your heart is in the right place, but, the 'learn it by ear' and 'it will just happen' statements without support or some way to begin have been a painful empty cup.  Edit to the best of my very recent knowledge below:

Try picking songs out by ear.  I started learning music at about 15 years old and don't remember the process for learning to play by ear; it just happened for me.  I have heard that if a song has been memorized by tab in say a down picking style, that arranging it and learning to play it in an up-picking style without written assistance may be a gateway to learning by ear and fingerboard mapping.  Once you do that, the song will stick with you. Memorizing by tab is okay when you're learning, but in order to be able to play a song that you haven't played in a while usually means getting out the tab and going over it. If you've learned it by ear, it tends to stay with you. One caveat: fiddle tunes and breakdowns sometimes have to be played often to keep in your mind. 

Are you aware of any refinements or additional techniques?

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I don't know of any magic bullet that will enable you to play by ear immediately.  It's a slow learning process.  I started out by learning the chords to a new song and then attempting to pick out the melody.  It was difficult at first and took a lot of trial, error and woodshedding, but it got easier as I went along.  Going to jams  helped more than anything else.   I couldn't keep up at first, but sat back and just tried to vamp along with the music.   Had a guitar picker show me some chords so I could watch him and change chords when he did.  Eventually, I began to hear the chord changes but weren't sure what they were.  Eventually I heard and knew what most of the chords were.   That made it much easier for me to pick out a melody.  

When I first started doing my own breaks, I'd figure out the melody note by note and write it down in tab (yes, in tab).  After I had the melody right, then I'd try adding a few frills; i.e., slides, hammers, pull offs, etc.   Eventually I had a good repertoire of musical phrases that I could plug into different songs.  

Now?  I hear a song, know what the chords are by the end of the first verse/chorus and when it comes time for a break I use my memory of  musical phrases to take a break on a song I never heard before.  

Please understand this took me years, not days, weeks or months.  It took lots of going to festivals and getting in jams.  

What really helped me the most was starting a band and getting local/area gigs to festivals.

It can happen, but it takes lots of work unless you happen to be naturally musically talented (which I wasn't).

johnedallas - Posted - 01/08/2026:  06:48:39

I'm with Sherry on this. I have a private song-book with about 200 songs in it. Lyrics only, mark you! No notes or tabs! That's because, once a song gets into my repertoire, the tune is more fixed in my mind than the lyric - the lyric has several different verses, whereas the tune is the same each time round. And when I work up a new song, my fingers usually follow my voice (that's what they call "arrranging on the fly"), so when I later sing the song, I tend to have the arrangement hard-wired in my fingers.
With solo-banjo pieces, I'm usually playing melodies with arrangements that I've previously done on the fly, and with each run-though they just get more automatic.
They say a good amateur practises until he can play it right; a pro practises until he can't play it wrong! (I'm not a pro, but I do appreciate the value of practice!)
Cheers,
John

pinenut - Posted - 01/08/2026:  06:50:06

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

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Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Hi Sherry, I know your heart is in the right place,

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I don't know of any magic bullet that will enable you to play by ear immediately. 

Please understand this took me years, not days, weeks or months.  

 

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Sherry - please don't put me down; I am not in a weeks months mode...  nineteen daily years invested. 

Hearing it isn't the missing piece and it's not magic I'm looking for; it's, where is the door?

Edited by - pinenut on 01/08/2026 07:05:05

RB3 - Posted - 01/08/2026:  07:55:55

pinenut,

If you haven't done so already, document the arrangements you know in the form of tablature, preferably, a computer-based tablature program such as Tabledit that can play the arrangements.



Later, when you've forgotten how to play an arrangement, you'll be able to use the tablature to relearn it. For songs that you've played a lot and then abandoned, you'll be amazed at how quickly you can relearn them if you've kept the tablatures.



What you learn and forget is still stored in your brain. The tablature is a tool that will help you find where in your brain it's stored.

Edited by - RB3 on 01/08/2026 08:03:04

Texasbanjo - Posted - 01/08/2026:  08:10:06

quote:

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Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

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Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Hi Sherry, I know your heart is in the right place,

---

 

---

I don't know of any magic bullet that will enable you to play by ear immediately. 

Please understand this took me years, not days, weeks or months.  

 

---

Sherry - please don't put me down; I am not in a weeks months mode...  nineteen daily years invested. 

Hearing it isn't the missing piece and it's not magic I'm looking for; it's, where is the door?

---

I in no way meant to put you down.  Believe me, I was trying to help you.  

Several of us have suggested ways to learn to play by ear.   Have you tried any of the ways we've suggested or just ignored them because they weren't what you thought of as a good idea?  

I presume there may be people who can't learn to play by ear, but very few.   Try a few of the suggestions you've been given, if not by me then by someone else.   Work on it for a while and see if it helps.  You can do it.  Just keep trying.

pinenut - Posted - 01/08/2026:  12:03:16

quote:

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Originally posted by RB3

pinenut,

If you haven't done so already, document the arrangements you know in the form of tablature, preferably, a computer-based tablature program such as Tabledit that can play the arrangements.   



Later, when you've forgotten how to play an arrangement, you'll be able to use the tablature to relearn it. For songs that you've played a lot and then abandoned, you'll be amazed at how quickly you can relearn them if you've kept the tablatures.



What you learn and forget is still stored in your brain. The tablature is a tool that will help you find where in your brain it's stored.

---

Thank you Wayne, definitely working at embracing Tabledit. 

I have also been actively assembling a notebook of what I sorta-know in the last few months, again; this rendition is doing a better job at documenting the 'correct' arrangements.  But, many tunes have slipped out of the maintenance loop and are so far gone that they require a full reboot from zero. 

So it goes...  Cheers.

pinenut - Posted - 01/08/2026:  13:01:35

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

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Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

quote:

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Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

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Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Hi Sherry, I know your heart is in the right place,

---

 

---

I don't know of any magic bullet that will enable you to play by ear immediately. 

Please understand this took me years, not days, weeks or months.  

 

---

Sherry - please don't put me down; I am not in a weeks months mode...  nineteen daily years invested. 

Hearing it isn't the missing piece and it's not magic I'm looking for; it's, where is the door?

---

I in no way meant to put you down.  Believe me, I was trying to help you.  

Several of us have suggested ways to learn to play by ear.   Have you tried any of the ways we've suggested or just ignored them because they weren't what you thought of as a good idea?  Please, be respectful.  This is a puzzle that should have been solved many years ago and is a consequence of not having access to a mentor.

I presume there may be people who can't learn to play by ear, but very few.   So true, and I'm fairly certain that I'm not one of those. 

Try a few of the suggestions you've been given, if not by me then by someone else.   The suggestions that I have seen or heard, synopsis, are to listen to a tune until it is inside (resonating and able to whistle it) then play along or otherwise try to replicate it on the banjo.  Seems like good advice; it has not worked on a banjo.  Some small entry skill is missing; it may be scales, haven't spent much time doing that on a banjo?  Dunno.

Work on it for a while and see if it helps.  You can do it.  Just keep trying.  Sigh, Charlie Brown is an old friend.

 

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Sherry, I'll bet you skimmed over how I edited your response with an idea that I have been testing for the past year or so.  It seems to help, but I think there is more to it...  

"Try picking songs out by ear.  I started learning music as a teenager and don't remember the entire process for learning to play by ear; with some effort it just happened for me.  I have heard that if a song has been memorized by tab in say a down picking style, that arranging it and learning to play it in an up-picking style without written assistance may be a gateway to learning by ear and fingerboard mapping.  Once you do that, the song will stick with you. Memorizing by tab is okay when you're learning, but in order to be able to play a song that you haven't played in a while usually means getting out the tab and going over it. If you've learned it by ear, it tends to stay with you. One caveat: fiddle tunes and breakdowns sometimes have to be played often to keep in your mind. "

And missed this part of my response...  "Hearing it isn't the missing piece"

I would add that learning tunes by ear with a fife or harmonica works fine (keyed flute too; I don't even play this instrument!).  The banjo and ukulele have not worked by ear; I want to know why and how (but, not for the uke; ~6mo was enough).  note:  I have not spend enough time to fully verify, but, violin and mandolin show promise as functional by ear too.

There is something about the re-entrant tuning or the multiple tunings or some small fundamental skill that is preventing me from stuffing tunes into a banjo by ear (for decades and not for lack of effort).

Cheers, I'm all ears.

Edited by - pinenut on 01/08/2026 13:19:27

johnedallas - Posted - 01/16/2026:  04:19:45

quote:

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And missed this part of my response...  "Hearing it isn't the missing piece"

I would add that learning tunes by ear with a fife or harmonica works fine (keyed flute too; I don't even play this instrument!).  The banjo and ukulele have not worked by ear; I want to know why and how (but, not for the uke; ~6mo was enough).  note:  I have not spend enough time to fully verify, but, violin and mandolin show promise as functional by ear too.

There is something about the re-entrant tuning or the multiple tunings or some small fundamental skill that is preventing me from stuffing tunes into a banjo by ear (for decades and not for lack of effort).

Cheers, I'm all ears.

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With this analysis, we may be getting closer to a "diagnosis" of your problem. You say you have no trouble learning tunes by ear on harmonica and fife, and do not expect trouble on mandolin or violin, but you do have trouble with banjo and ukulele. 

So what's the difference between

a) fife, harmonica, mandolin and violin

on the one hand, and

b) banjo and ukulele

on the other hand?

Simple: group a) are all melody instruments. To play them, you have to string single notes together, with the intervals between the notes copied from the performance of the tune that you've heard. Group b) are chording instruments. To play them, you have to be able to form chords on several strings simultaneously, the chords being copied from the performance you've heard.

So you are probably quite capable of singing a melody that you've heard, and transferring the sung, hummed or merely imagined notes to a melodic instrument. Where your ear lets you down is when it comes to hearing chord changes, or recognizing when the tune calls for a I chord or a IV, or V7, or vi chord. 

Perhaps your auditory system is incapable of recognizing harmonies - but this in improbable. Fact is that, as children, our first approach to music - before we get to touch any instrument - is purely melodic. We just sing the children's songs we learned from the older children. My first instrument was the mandolin, and when my Dad had shown me how to finger the scale of G major, I was soon able to play the tunes I had sung up to then. 

Then, as a teenager, I got a banjo and a slim tutor book, and discovered that a piece of music was not just a series of notes, but a sequence of chords, too. But which chord when? Well, I played through the songs in the tutor book, and gradually I began to recognize places in a tune where a chord change was called for. And after a while longer, I began to be able to guess which chord came next. It took time, but I got there!

IMO it's not that recognizing chords by ear is more difficult than recognizing melodies. it's just that, as children, we have a head start with melodies, whereas we tend to have to wait with the learning of harmonies until we're older and not so quick at learning as we were as toddlers!

I play one instrument that you didn't mention: the Autoharp. If you can get hold of one of those, use it as a "chording exerciser!" Changing chords is so easy that, at any point in a tune, you can try out "a couple or three" different chords, to see which one fits. Even though I'm now quite competent at arranging for the banjo on the fly, there are some tunes where the harmonies are not obvious - and in these cases I pick up my Autoharp and strum a few chord sequences until one sounds right. Then I find the appropriate cord shapes for the banjo.

IMO it's not a matter of learning arrangements; it's a matter of learning how to arrange!

Cheers

John