jsinjin - Posted - 03/29/2026:  18:26:40

I’ve been trying to get the very fist measure correct on blackest crow for three weeks of about two hours a day. I just keep messing it up especially when I try to add the second measure. This is literally the first time in my life I realized there could be anything with three beats per measure and it’s just not clicking at all. I’m using strum machine. I’ve listened to others but the years of practicing the timing of four beats per measure thousands of times a day per song has completely messed me up. I just can’t seem to make the switch. When I try it I always add another note or pull the next measure first note into the last one. It’s like I can’t process it. I honestly didn’t realize there was a waltz timing. My teacher started me on this and we keep going over it but no matter what I do it’s not clicking. I just can’t identify the pattern. I’ve tried clap hit my leg snap but I always default into the next clap being the fourth beat then it cycles through every three repeats.

Has anyone else faced this? What did you do?

mmuussiiccaall - Posted - 03/29/2026:  19:51:42

My stock answer:

I would like to recommend an iPhone app to learn how to have perfect timing. In my years of teaching I've found of course that some people have a good sense of rhythm and some don't. The need to stay in time never goes away once you can actually play your instrument. Now most people with a good sense of timing don't even need to know about eighth notes as opposed to sixteenth notes, triplets, etc. They can just feel it. On the other hand I've had students who could play a whole song note for note but with bad timing and it just makes for a train wreck when others try to play along! Anyway getting back to this app, that by the way is called RHYTHM SIGHT READING $3.99, I've had great success with it fixing students timing problems. And the beauty of it is that at the same time it teaches how to read all different rhythm notation symbols that you could come across in tablature or standard notation. This also helps those that have a great sense of rhythm but can't play off of written music because they can't figure out these timing symbols, this app fixes that. The thing that is amazing is that it tests you on your accuracy with a visual report up to a tenth of a second. You can also learn to play ahead or behind the beat for that drive or laid back feel. Finally another thing, it has is infinite patience which I do not possess

Here's a way that gets you a tempo "body clock", so to speak. Go to the website below and start picking out songs that you are very familiar with and whose tempos are even numbers, I'll call them example songs. Either write them down are memorize them in numerical order. Once you have this list use it to gain a concrete knowledge of what each tempo sounds like in your mind. Finally use this to your advantage by first, knowing the tempo number of the song you want to kick off and second, hearing the tempo of the example song on the list in your new "body clock" mind.

sites.google.com/view/readrhythm-app/home?

youtube.com/watch?v=bIgMn09Cxmc

Edited by - mmuussiiccaall on 03/29/2026 19:52:05

jsinjin - Posted - 03/29/2026:  19:56:21

That actually sounds quite valuable. I appreciate it

banjered - Posted - 03/29/2026:  21:41:55

Without a teacher I had to struggle for everything clawhammer, bum ditty and drop thumb etc. When it came to waltz 3/4 time, something made me put my left brain aside and simply "feel" my way into playing South Wind that is currently on the new video page. I played it right off, no practice. . The Blackest Crow is a great song to get the waltz time. Write the song out. Underline the BUM words. Make sure you can tap your foot or hands to the BUM words, feel it!. My pattern that I mostly use turns out to be 1) BUM, 2) dit-ty and 3) a very soft bum. After a while on more complex 3/4 tunes/songs you'll get to the point of being able to drop thumb, hammer on, pull off on any of the three parts. Maybe another way of saying all this is that I thought more about the song than what my right hand was doing. Hang in there, you'll get it! banjered

cjwit - Posted - 03/30/2026:  06:32:52

Just tossing in here: if you haven't been trying to sing the tune, you may try that. I find it much easier to work out a funky little crooked spot after I can sing the melody and/or play it on the fiddle.

trapdoor2 - Posted - 03/30/2026:  07:17:19

Best method: go to a dance, learn to actually waltz. It's not just the count, the accents drive the movement.



And...the more attractive the partner, the faster you'll internalize the rhythm.

jsinjin - Posted - 03/30/2026:  07:21:04

Ha! That would be a bad event for me and any potential dance partner period!

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/30/2026:  08:00:33

You may be used to counting 1, 2, 3, 4 with emphasis on the 1 and 3 beats. In a waltz, the emphasis is on the 1 beat. So try thinking a strong ONE and a quieter 2, 3.

jsinjin - Posted - 03/30/2026:  08:08:06

Ha! Thats what I’ve been doing but for some reason my brain goes 1-2-3-1, 2-3-1-2, in a rolling forward pattern. On very rare occasions things lock in correctly for a couple of measures but then it goes back to 4-4 time.

lawnboss - Posted - 03/30/2026:  09:07:44

The breakthrough for me was changing my thinking from "bum-ditty" to "bum-ditty-ditty".

carlb - Posted - 03/30/2026:  12:36:56

Here are two waltzes in my media files. Maybe how I clawhammer a waltz that might help you. Sorry, no tabs.

Wednesday Night Waltz carlb solo banjo

Wake Robin

Owen - Posted - 03/30/2026:  12:50:28

What did I do?

I realized/accepted both my limitations and those of conventional instruction.  

banjoak - Posted - 03/30/2026:  13:39:40

quote:

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Originally posted by lawnboss

The breakthrough for me was changing my thinking from "bum-ditty" to "bum-ditty-ditty".

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That's perhaps the easiest way folks might compare.

Bum-pa-Dit-ty. Explained as the Bum is down stroke, the Dit is also often a down stroke, or brush. The ty is often the fifth string, but can be a drop thumb, or HO, PO or slide. The pa can also be any of those or just a space.

For waltz just extend that so the downs are Bum-dit-dit... just practice that... get it solid in right hand feel. Then in between are still filled with same options; maybe start with bum-dit-ditty/bum-dit-ditty/bum-dit-ditty/bum-dit-ditty...; then try bum-ditty-dit/bum-ditty-dit/bum-ditty-dit/bum-ditty-dit... gives different feel.

FWIW- other options that many find work better for some waltzes is just incorporate some 2 or 3 finger style. (and good intro to those styles)

As well might possible include adaptation of what folks call Pete Seeger style, does with some up stroke/brush in the bum-ditty? (I don't really play that way so can't say).

A waltz is a dance... so dancing is a good way to understand music for dancing.

Edited by - banjoak on 03/30/2026 13:41:10

banjered - Posted - 03/30/2026:  14:00:52

Hey Carib I liked that Wed. N. Waltz. Nice little runs in it etc. Might have to learn it. It sounds similar to my favorite waltz to play, "The Cowboy Waltz." Maybe a better way to describe my basic waltz pattern is 1) BUM (loud) 2) dit-ty (softer) 3) dit (softest). I am still of the mind-set that if I can do it anyone can. Slam your toe down on the BUM as you count and think ONE, and count 2,3 on the others. Try a song you know really well like Down in the Valley or some other. You CAN learn it! banjered

AndrewD - Posted - 03/30/2026:  14:11:51

Find a 4/4 tune that you know really well and play it waltz time. BUM ditty-ditty BUM ditty-ditty to get the pattern into muscle memory. And then use that on a real waltz. Worked for me. Old Joe Clark works well for this.

WAWest - Posted - 03/30/2026:  16:04:35

@jsinjin
Waltzes are tough, but very rewarding. Lots of good suggestions.
If you know the tune Green Willis, you may want to try Chapel Hill Serenade, same melody as a waltz.
Bill West

jsinjin - Posted - 03/30/2026:  16:24:05

So far it’s just Blackest Crow. My teacher has me learning that one.

carlb - Posted - 03/31/2026:  05:19:56

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewD

Find a 4/4 tune that you know really well and play it waltz time. BUM ditty-ditty BUM ditty-ditty to get the pattern into muscle memory. And then use that on a real waltz. Worked for me. Old Joe Clark works well for this.

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Did that many years ago, at the of a square dance, and played "Soldier's Joy" as a waltz.

jsinjin - Posted - 03/31/2026:  05:25:22

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewD

Find a 4/4 tune that you know really well and play it waltz time. BUM ditty-ditty BUM ditty-ditty to get the pattern into muscle memory. And then use that on a real waltz. Worked for me. Old Joe Clark works well for this.

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I don't think I could figure that out if I tried.   

AndrewD - Posted - 03/31/2026:  07:11:02

quote:

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Originally posted by carlb

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewD

Find a 4/4 tune that you know really well and play it waltz time. BUM ditty-ditty BUM ditty-ditty to get the pattern into muscle memory. And then use that on a real waltz. Worked for me. Old Joe Clark works well for this.

---

Did that many years ago, at the of a square dance, and played "Soldier's Joy" as a waltz.

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Similar here. We were asked for a waltz and did Over the Waterfall (which we'd played earlier) in 3/4. Later we were asked for a jig. Over the Waterfall again with no fifth string and a heavily dotted rhythm.