Elephant Ivory

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BACON and DAY

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For all things related to The Fred Bacon Banjo Co. and B&D Banjos (including: Gretsch).

138 Members, Created 1/22/2012 -

Administrators: jbalch (owner)

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From tomtyler on 1/30/2018 8:14:31 PM

Hi Everyone,

I am trying to export a 1926 B&D Ne Plus Ultra No 6 from the USA to Australia but the shipper is concerned that the ivory in the fret board requires a permit. From a 1920s catalogue I've seen elephant ivory is confirmed and the shipper also reckons its origin needs to be known to get the permit.

Does anyone have any idea of where the ivory was sourced? The only places I can think of are Africa (South Africa, Rhodesia (as I think it was in 1926 etc etc.) or India although you don't see old movies of elephant safaris in India.

Tom

10 Comments
	banjotrader says: 1/30/2018 8:23:04 PM Only 100+ year ivory can be legally exported from US. Otherwise its a no go. Your own country then needs to have a valid import permit to acquire the export. Etc. Sorry to say its not possible.
tomtyler says: 1/30/2018 8:57:14 PM OUCH
tomtyler says: 1/30/2018 9:26:02 PM How have so many ended up overseas? Were they smuggled or are the regulations fairly new? I've been waiting for years to get hold of one of these - I now own it (at least for a while) but can't get it out of the US - very, very disappointing and as I had never seen one apart from photos I never even thought of ivory!
	banjotrader says: 1/31/2018 5:03:56 AM The regulations came into full effect in the US last year 2017. Even the minimus rule only applies for 100+ yr old ivory... it is a mess.
	dutchtenor says: 4/23/2018 10:28:53 AM Hi Tom, I bought one from the USA last year with no problems at all. However, i do not now the Australian laws about Ivory. It is occording to the CITES laws allowed to import and export musical instruments that contain ivory, even if it is African ivory. I suggest you check the internet about usa/australian laws. Hope it is no too late.
tomtyler says: 4/23/2018 3:58:32 PM What shipper did you use and did they arrange the export permit? If the shipper didn't realise the ivory was there and shipped it the chances of being caught are slim but the penalties horrendous, gaol time and fines. Into Australia is fine if you have the US export paperwork. My application for a permit is now in, but although I believe, according to Renee Karnes, that the ivory is over 100yrs old, I am not 100% confident. So please if you did your purchase legally to CITES requirements let me know your shipper. US Fisheries and wildlife needed ivory spieces date ivory was brought in, any modifications and complete ownership trail. A nightmare - completing the form took my agent me and the seller months and of course information on ownership is incomplete. Lots of affidavits but most importantly the dating info supplied by Renee. Fingers toes arms legs and testes crossed by god!
	dutchtenor says: 5/3/2018 1:17:55 PM I cannot find the info. i bought it from a music shop in the states (info in earlier chats in this group). I did not know about the problems with ivory, so I guess I was very lucky... Sorry I cannot help you, and I hope the NPU will reach Australia in good condition!
	dutchtenor says: 5/3/2018 1:24:09 PM Info on my purchase can be found here; banjohangout.org/archive/329509
tomtyler says: 5/3/2018 3:33:03 PM Thanks for the follow up. I reckon if my shipper did not have a fussy compliance department I'd have it by now. However if I get the permit its been worth it. If not well there may be a NPU#6 for sale in Florida.
tomtyler says: 5/3/2018 3:33:04 PM Thanks for the follow up. I reckon if my shipper did not have a fussy compliance department I'd have it by now. However if I get the permit its been worth it. If not well there may be a NPU#6 for sale in Florida.
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