I tried a skin head on my bluegrass banjo a few years ago without much success. I know most of it was I just didn't know what I was doing. I have read where the humidity plays a factor and am curious just how much and is it more seasonal.
For example, I don't travel alot with my banjo and live in michigan. Is it safe to say that if I put this head on this time of year and manage to get it's tension up where I want it that I would not need to touch it (much) again until maybe spring when the humidity starts going back up?
How much does a real humid day really affect it? For example, if you have something tensioned to, say, 90 on a drum dial in 50% humidity and a week later the humidity goes up to 65% how does that affect the tension. Does it drop to maybe 89 or 88 or does it go way down to like a 83 or something. I am trying to get a feel for how far these swing one to the other.
21 Comments |
 | Kurt Kemp says:
12/11/2013 1:36:04 PM
I should mention too that I am getting ready to try it again and have ordered a Miller calfskin which is why I am asking.
|
| Kurt Kemp says:
12/11/2013 1:39:54 PM
I should mention too that I am getting ready to try it again and have ordered a Miller calfskin which is why I am asking.
|
 | Tom Berghan says:
12/11/2013 4:19:48 PM
You can expect to adjust tension maybe four times a year. And it only takes a moment. You can expect the adjustments to be an eighth turn on each nut to maybe a quarter turn. For instance I just did an adjustment two days ago. The temperature dropped quite a lot for several weeks in a row. I noticed the sound was off and the harmonics sounded different. I checked gap at the bridge and I could see it was too tight. I loosened it a bit. I went all the way around loosening by one eighth turns. It sounded better but still not quite right. I went around one more time loosening by one eighth turn and it was perfect. The banjo was singing with a beautiful voice once again. The whole process took 5 minutes at the most.
|
 | Pluckin Mutha says:
12/11/2013 6:50:17 PM
I think it depends a lot on the head. I had a fine grade (vellum?) head which was on for 30 years and required no adjustment.
As for Bluesgrass picking, - I don't know it for a fact, but Earl probavbly picke on skin heads in the early years.
In fact he probably picked on Nylon strings way back when.
|
| Tom Berghan says:
12/11/2013 7:39:26 PM
Earl did indeed play and record on hide heads. Mylar had not been invented yet. Earl never played with gut or nylon strings. Always on steel strings. (He describes his early years in detail in his book - he began to play banjo as a child and learned from relatives who played banjo)
|
| Kurt Kemp says:
12/12/2013 5:11:02 AM
Thanks for the tips! I always had the impression that I'd be adjusting head tension every time I got it out of the case.
I am guessing all Earl's recordings from 1957 and back were with a head head. So all the Mercury recordings and the foggy mt. jamboree album. His best stuff.
|
| Tom Berghan says:
12/12/2013 10:09:52 PM
I'm not exactly sure when Earl first recorded with Mylar, but it was invented by DuPont in the early 1950s and Remo produced drum heads and then banjo heads in the mid to late fifties so yes, you are very close on the dates.
I feel that a hide head is just as important a factor in getting that that early Bluegrass sound as the pre-war Gibson Mastertone ring. There are many fine "MasterClone" rings made today, and when combined with a good hide head and good rim . . . you get that classic sound!
|
 | Tim Zowada says:
12/14/2013 8:05:05 PM
I'm a bit OCD and used to tweak my hide head every few days. But after nearly two years, I find that I only mess with it when the seasons change. That may be due to the head finally "settling in" as well.
I have a Miller Vellum on a Louzee bluegrass style banjo. It has never sounded better.
If you are ever in the "tip of the mitt" don't hesitate to look me up.
|
| Tim Zowada says:
12/14/2013 8:09:32 PM
Oh, you will find your drum dial nearly useless with a hide head. The head texture messes up the dial indicator.
Steve Davis' stick and coin works better. Your ear works even better than that...
|
| Kurt Kemp says:
12/15/2013 1:21:18 AM
Thanks. I should have the head tomorrow so will start the process. I was a little impatient last time. I grew up on the opposite side of the mitt Tim. Almost directly opposite you in Hillman. About 1/2 was between alpena and gaylord.
|
| Kurt Kemp says:
12/16/2013 5:14:48 PM
i got the head today. I did not have to wet it at all so I was able to tighten it up ok and will let it stretch and tighten it again tomorrow night then string it up. I am assuming it will stretch quite a bit for a few days?
|
| Tom Berghan says:
12/16/2013 6:13:24 PM
Ah . . . you never mentioned that you were getting a pre-mounted head. You ONLY wet to the head when you are mounting it to the flesh hoop. If you get a mounted head wet, it will come undone from the flesh hoop. So, DON'T get it wet.
Yes, it will stretch a bit but not a huge amount, and it will need to be touched up a few times in the first week, then once a week for a few weeks and then it will stable. Actually it doesn't stretch a whole lot more than Mylar does at first. It is very similar . . . it just needs to be tuned up when the humidity changes drastically. The installation method is identical to installing a Mylar head.
|
| Tom Berghan says:
12/16/2013 6:20:27 PM
PS, get the strings on right away, otherwise you won't know how much to tighten the head. Here is my personal method of installing a head.
1. Get a paper towel and wet a small spot with 3-in-1 oil. Turn all the j-bolt threads on the oil spot. Do this every time you change a head (which should be a rare event). Oiled threads last longer, don't bind up, don't give you a false sense of torque (resistance), and don't squeak and squawk.
2. Place the head on the rim
3. Get everything even on the tension hoop (no high spots)
4. put on four j-bolts at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions . . . finger tighten only
5. hold the rim up and look at it horizontally all the way around and make sure the tension hoop is even (head to tension hoop . . . no high spots, even all the way around)
6. adjust if needed
7. set the rest of the j-bolts, finger tighten only . . . NOT tight
8. repeat steps 5 and 6
9. start tightening the nuts just one-eighth turn - go clockwise (or CCW) one after the other, all the way around - not a star pattern (you're not putting a wheel on your car)
10. repeat steps 5 and 6
11. NOTE: some say one quarter turns . . . but what is your hurry? I like one eighth turns because the whole process stays in finer control.
12. keep repeating steps 9, 5, and 6
13. use the ruler and quarter method and when the quarter fits tight you are there
14. at this point - since you have a drum dial, check it with that
|
| Kurt Kemp says:
12/17/2013 5:11:34 AM
Ya I forgot to mention that. The instructions say to wet the large area, staying clear of the hoop, if you can get the hooks/nuts connected. I did not have any issue in that regard. Sounds like our head changing process is pretty close already. I did not wrench it down like I would a Mylar. I figured I'd let it stretch before I brought it up to full tension under string pressure. I'll be doing that tonight. Anxious to hear and feel the results!
|
| Kurt Kemp says:
12/18/2013 5:15:45 AM
Looks like it is not going to work. I am not quite up to tension and I am already almost bottoming out with the flesh hoop and neck. It's dry here now so if I manage to get it to tension when it loosens in the humidity I won't have any way to tension it up. The crown is already getting to high. :-(
|
| Tom Berghan says:
12/18/2013 5:54:09 AM
That's a shame Kurt. I'm sorry to hear about that. The obvious question is "What crown height did you order?" I heard that Bill Miller past away something like two years ago, so his family must be running the business now. It should have been the same crown as the Mylar head you replaced. Or, maybe a bit less. But if it was built for medium and you buy a short crown you run the risk of it not fitting. Maybe they will swap it for a shorter crown. I bought one pre mounted head from Bill about five years ago. The crown was so short I barely got it on, and to make matters worse the flesh hoop diameter was too great and out of round, so it sits all katywompus on the rim. But, it sounds great so I've just played with it crooked all these years. Don't give up! I have a medium thick hide head (John Balch) on my Hatfield banjo (setup for bluegrass) and it sounds incredible. It has that 1950's BG sound!
|
| Kurt Kemp says:
12/18/2013 6:02:16 AM
There wasn't really an option on their website that I saw. The Remo White Suede head I usually use is medium crown. This one "appeared" close to that but obviously it has stretched considerably. Maybe I will order one of Mr. Balch. The quality of this one wasn't that great. The hide itself looks good but the flesh hoop mounting just did not appear to me to be very well done. It looked like it had some folds in it that probably, after unfolding under tension has contributed to the crown becoming too high. This is my second unsuccessful attempt with a Miller head. Maybe 3rd time is a charm with someone else's head.
|
| Tom Berghan says:
12/18/2013 6:03:13 AM
Kurt - watch this video, you might better off mounting the head by yourself. Wayne Rogers made a great how-to-do-it video about a year ago. Check it out.
youtu.be/b9r2VGZf--0
|
 | banjopickingman says:
12/19/2013 8:35:21 AM
It's a pity that you are having this difficulty. These heads aren't cheap! However, if you go with a John Balch head, you are unlikely to have these problems. They are the best, and I'm sure John would be happy to consult with you in advance about the crown height.
|
 | Bufo Bill says:
1/3/2014 1:48:09 PM
Hi there Kurt, just a quick word to say that I live in England, but I always buy hides from John because I really trust him and the quality is always superb. Well worth the postage. :D
|
| Kurt Kemp says:
1/25/2014 8:42:04 AM
Success! I finally got it. Last night I was lying awake and it occurred to me that I could stack an old prewar flesh hoop from a trashed head I had on top of the miller pre-mount to raise my tension hoop up where it should be. I also took off about a 1/16th of an inch or so off the part of the neck where the flesh hoop looked like it was going to hit last time. Long story short, it's all good now. I need to get it up to tension though. Still a little tubby.
|
Post a Comment
|
You must be logged in and a member of this group to post a comment.
|
