Not a fan of the Sprung method

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Sprung Circle

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For fans and students of legendary banjo player and innovative teacher Roger Sprung

49 Members, Created 4/4/2011 -

Administrators: Rich Weill (owner)

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From coelhoe on 10/29/2015 2:55:28 PM

As I think I've mentioned elsewhere on the BHO long ago, my banjo career was almost derailed right from the start by Sprung's seven-beat method (1, 1-2-3, 1-2-3) index finger lead. '62 I was in the Army out in California and I purchased a Gibson RB-100 (150?), no resonator. A young man from NYC came by and said that had been a student of Sprung's, and he offered to show me this intro "roll" from Sprung's system. But, since it has only seven beats, I found that I could not make it work, or keep time. Very frustrating. Finally, I gave up and took the banjo back to music store. I had had no trouble with OT styles. A year and half later, I picked up a Scruggs roll from somewhere and took off from there. I have played the instrument a lot over the years, and taught several others to play as well. Of course, it is possible that I misunderstood what I was shown back in '62, but the descriptions I have seen from Sprung and his students sure look to me like the same thing I was shown. I don't really understand how it works for other people. I must be missing something.

5 Comments
	nograss5150 says: 10/29/2015 7:44:48 PM Dennis, if I'm not mistaken, you are referring to what Roger called an "incomplete forward roll". Thumb(1), index(2), and middle(3), and the sequence went 2-3-1-2-3-1-2. All he's doing is substituting a quarter note as the final note of a measure instead of two eighth notes. My understanding was that Roger did this for new banjo pickers as he could see a common problem for newbies was to complete an 8 note roll and then start another roll. All he did was give you an 1/8th note rest at the end of the measure by having you play a quarter note and this gave you time to reload for another measure. After you master that, you learn to play the extra 8th note instead of a quarter note. I found it really helps you with timing issues when you're a new picker because it forces you to recognize the timing of an 8th note and a quarter note. Hope this explanation helps. :-)
	Rich Weill says: 10/30/2015 7:29:27 AM Joe is correct. If you look on the list of "Linked Content" to the right, you will see a linked blog entry about the "Incomplete Forward Roll" (containing links to samples). I learned the roll from Roger himself, reinforced by his instructional CD. I can't speak to how you were taught it, Dennis. Please don't misjudge "the Sprung method" because you had the misfortune of learning from a poor messenger.
	coelhoe says: 10/30/2015 8:20:28 AM I thank you both for your clarifications, though what I was shown (long ago) seems to me to be just what you have described. It is interesting that Sprung's structure is very similar to the seven beats + rest that comprise one of the standard finger-style guitar patterns from the early '60's. Since it seems that many people have profited from Sprung's approach, I'll just have to put it down to my own inability to understand why it works for them. I have no problem doing it (even after almost fifty years) but I find no use for it. I'll leave it at that.
	Rich Weill says: 10/30/2015 10:03:16 AM Of course, Roger's "incomplete forward roll" is only one of 20 rolls he teaches his students. But it's the first. So this roll is not his entire "method" or "approach," just one part of it. His method/approach, as I see it, is showing you how to play rhythm, harmony, and melody together on the banjo, in a way that lets you go from song to song on your own (with no tab or demonstration) and figure it out for yourself. Determine the chords (harmony), play appropriate rolls over the chords with correct timing (rhythm), and gradually add in the tune (melody). Once you've mastered that (playing in different keys), only then move on to tags, licks, ornamentation and the rest.
	Tom Hanway says: 11/20/2015 4:01:41 AM I wish more threads had dialogue of this kind, where people are self-correcting and humble.
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	ROGER SPRUNG INTERVIEW Linked by Rich Weill 5 years ago
	Roger Sprung ABM Hall of Fame Video Linked by Rich Weill 5 years ago
Tablature: All Through the Night (Ar Hyd y Nos) 4th Variation Linked by Tom Hanway 10 years ago: In memory of Bill Keith, here is a lovely Welsh air in Celtic fingerstyle that can be played as a Christmas tune.
Blog Entry: What is the 'Celtic' in Folk Music Culture? Linked by Tom Hanway 10 years ago: Today, use of either English or French symbolises social and material success while use of a living Celtic language symbolises powerlessness, backwardness or clannishness.
	Roger Sprung's Play Along Instruction Record for the 5 String Banjo Linked by Rich Weill 11 years ago
	Roger Sprung in Washington Square Park Linked by Rich Weill 13 years ago
Blog Entry: Roger Sprung's "Incomplete Forward Roll" Linked by Rich Weill 13 years ago
	Galax 2012 Roger Sprung Jam (part 4) Linked by Rich Weill 14 years ago
	Galax 2012 Roger Sprung Jam (part 3) Linked by Rich Weill 14 years ago
	Galax 2012 Roger Sprung Jam (part 2) Linked by Rich Weill 14 years ago