wuzapicker Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @3:26:11 PM

Look good Paul!

Almost like new. Early style hook nuts, and the "rope" style binding has red line borders. It has the 1923 tailpiece and early type armrest. Without knowing the serial number, I'd say 1926 or earlier.

Mine is a 1924 and looked nearly identical when new. But the time I got it it had seen better days.

banjopaul100 Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @3:55:42 PM

wow your a real gem with information michael,

i`ve been informed by the previous owner it`s a 1924 model

i`ll forward the serial number when i have it

unfortumatly it seems as though it has been refretted but i`m keeping this to play for yrs so may be i would have had to have it done eventually !!

but is has brass tuning pegs which are unusual i`ve never seen them before was that common on early style c paramounts ?

wuzapicker Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @3:58:18 PM

You have the same style Page tuners that are consistent for Paramounts made from 1923 to 1927. The are indeed made of brass instead of pot metal as ones made after 1927 were. You can tell the brass ones because the screw lugs are on the same side of the gear casing. The pot metal cases put the lugs one on either side. The pot metal cases are fragile, even self-detonating. The brass ones work forever.

wuzapicker Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @4:00:28 PM

Keep in mind, when this banjo was made, Henry Ford was still making Model T's.

banjopaul100 Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @4:04:26 PM

That`s fantastic news michael about the brass tuning pegs as the one`s on my style A are the ones you have just described metal cases and i have been warned not to bang the head stock otherwise the result will be damage to the metal tuners, so i am ultra carefull when handling the A model, i can understand people becoming addicted to buying these paramounts, i`ve bought 2 in 2 weeks and love them !! thank you very much your a great source of information as i`m new to the paramount series and have fallen in love with them, just world class banjos !!

banjopaul100 Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @4:08:53 PM

Some bloke i no said that the paramounts out sold the gibson banjos in there day would you agree ?

wuzapicker Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @4:14:24 PM

Yes! World class. I once had eight of them. Now I have three beaters and I love them.

B&D Silver Bells are louder as are Epiphone Recording models which cut through the horns like few other tenors I played. But Paramount banjos have a beauty and sound all their own. Keep in mind, Lange was first out with a modern Jazz banjo. There was a day when to own a Paramount banjo was to own the very best. In my opinion a Paramount in good repair is everything a banjo needs to be.

wuzapicker Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @4:21:16 PM

Yes. It is evident from the sheer number of surviving Paramount banjos whatever the present state of condition. Lange sold more Paramounts than Gibson sold Mastertones. (Also B&D Silver Bells.) And when you consider the price points, you could buy a higher grade Paramount for the price of a given Mastertone or Silver Bell.

Lange made all the parts for his banjo lines except hooks. Those were supplied by Waverly. Other manufacturers contracted out parts from outside metal workers. Lange actually supplied B&D with necks for their Silver Bell line. The ones with the 2nd style peg head outline were made by Lange.

banjopaul100 Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @4:21:22 PM

well i feel i have bought a real cracker in the style C the bloke said it had been refretted and the neck refinished i did want a total original one but at the price i have paid and it looks lovely i can`t complain i`ll be sticking with the paramounts now, will the style C be as bright as the style A with a clear head on it ? some people say maple with make the banjo louder than mahogany what do you feel would be brighter ? thanks

wuzapicker Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @5:41:00 PM

If you check the photos on my home page, you will see photos of my Paramount Style C. One of those photos shows the same brass Page tuners your Style C has. My Style C's original neck was broken in two places and badly repaired. Thus I selected it for conversion to 5-string. The original neck still exists as I found it. I can copy it 100 times but destroy it only once.

banjopaul100 Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @5:50:18 PM

i wouldn`t have known there brass as they look like metal they must be brass nickel plated i`ve been looking online at photos of other style c paramounts and some of them look like the neck is a darker shade of wood than the resonator mine looks like that, i`m just wondering if it`s the light in the photo or the laquer they use !

have you seen this before ?

wuzapicker Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @9:15:09 PM

Sorry for the late reply. I teach a Bible Study on Friday evenings and was away from home.

Yep! Mine is that way. Paramount Style C necks appear to be hand stained a dark maroon color. The neck's center laminates are bordered with black dyed hardwood next to the mahogany. That line on either side of center serves as a border for the stain. Stained I can tell because of chips and the defective re-gluing on mine exposes core mahogany wood that is unstained. Hand stained I can tell because there is a point where the craftsman made a mistake on mine and stained the holly center laminate. And in 1924 the mechanical technology to stain the necks with precision like that didn't exist.

The resonator on my Style C and every other one I've seen that still have the original finish are a medium mahogany orange color. In short, the dark maroon neck does not exactly match the resonator color. It is the way it is. The Style C resonator is outlined with fancy wood inlay in light colord hardwoods. You can see that in my photos The job of hand staining the resonator would be daunting and time consuming. Thus, I think it was left undone for production reasons.

The Style C is a very fancy banjo even in nickel plating. The tuners are indeed nickle plated. But the gears inside and the post that protrudes through the neck are bare brass.

I have seen two Style C plectrums that were gold plated in modern restoration. They look real nice in gold too.

banjopaul100 Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @9:53:11 PM

hey michael i really appreciate your input and your knowledge so thanks very much, that information has helped me so much i`ve always wanted a style C paramount and will probably be asking all kinds of stuff, i`m so lucky i can access such good information, the guy who i bought the paramount style A from said the paramount banjos are not as powerful as Epiphone A and B i was wondering if the have the same tone chamber and simlar woods why are they so much more powerfull in volume ? i can`t see it possible !

wuzapicker Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @10:40:24 PM

I have a 1928 Epiphone Alhambra Recording tenor. It was the first banjo I ever bought. In the 1928 catalog, the Alhambra was smack between the Recording "A" and Bandmaster "B" models and the same price as a Paramount Leader. Comparing the Epiphone Recording construction and the earlier Paramount design one notes similarities but those are really only superficial. The differences matter more.

In the Paramount per Lange's patent description, air is allowed to move all around the rim through the tone chamber.

That is not true of the Epiphone. The Epiphone has a thicker rim than the Paramount and is a much heavier built banjo. It has a one piece formed brass bracket bearing flange instead of bolted shoes like the Paramount. The Epiphone rim is jacketed by a plated brass sleeve that bears the tension at the edge of the head and transmits that tension to a ring embedded into the side of the rim against which the flange also rests against. The resonator was gloss finished inside which helps projection.

The Epiphone represents a different design paradigm and is of more formidable construction than the Paramount. This construction allows the Epiphone to produce a sharp penetrating tone where the Paramount has a sweeter more mellowed tone.

If I was making music in a living room with a few friends, I would likely choose my Paramount Leader. If I was cast behind four brass horns with a piano (and expected to be heard), I would bring my Epiphone Recording banjo to the job. But I was only rarely ever called to such duty.

banjopaul100 Says:
Friday, August 31, 2012 @10:57:25 PM

Thanks michael !

A lot of musicians over here in england who are either professional or who just play in pub sessions seem to love the Epiphone A or B models and now i no why sound projection there LOUD !!

at the moment i`m not advanced enough for the speed required for pub sessions but that will come in time i`ve only recently started practising daily although i have been able to play for yrs you have to keep playing regular.
i`ll be playing at home for a while yet and then will introduce myself into the irish session scene i`m repoitre building at the moment and enjoying every minute.

wuzapicker Says:
Saturday, September 1, 2012 @8:40:24 AM

If I had to pick a prewar Epiphone model I would likely choose the Concert Recording model because those have rosewood necks. I happen to like rosewood banjos. I would not choose the Epiphone Concert Special recording's white holly neck.

My favorite banjo is the Paramount Leader which was priced between the Style C and the Aristocrat models. The Leader and the Style F both had East Indian Rosewood necks, rims and resonators. The Leader's resonator back is solid rosewood, not ply and flat on the inside. That combination gives the Paramount Leader in my subjective opinion the richest sound of all the standard catalog models.

I've had too much experience in smoke filled rooms to hunger to return for that small pay. My present interest is accompanying Gospel songs in connection with Christian outreach and teaching ministries. My desire at present is to assemble a matched pair of Paramount Leaders, one tenor and one five string to use in that connection. I have one already and am looking for another. The five string will doubtless be converted from a tenor. Depending on the condition of the second, a restoration may be required.

That's my mind on the matter anyway.

Thanks!

banjopaul100 Says:
Saturday, September 1, 2012 @8:51:34 AM

There is a paramount leader tenor for sale in belfast is that too far away ?


belfast.britya.com/forsale-a-m...2%A31-250

wuzapicker Says:
Saturday, September 1, 2012 @2:03:44 PM

Thanks Paul,

I'll let your BAS be tempted by that one.

I'm really looking for a beater that I can rehabilitate into what I want. I plan for those two banjos to be players long term.

The original neck on my existing Paramount Leader, PL5843, is straight and stable but it needs a re-fret and some minor repair. It was refinished years ago. There are major divots in the board but I would keep them.

I had PL5843's resonator restored a number of years ago. It had evidently been dropped resulting in the resonator being cracked. Now one cannot see the damage without close examination. The rim was also badly delaminated and that was also repaired correctly. Now that banjo sounds like it should.

So really, PL5843 may remain my main tenor banjo depending on the condition of the next one I buy. That one may be ripe for conversion to 5-string. At least, that's what I'm looking for. Either way, I'll repair one, and convert the other.

banjopaul100 Says:
Saturday, September 1, 2012 @4:27:44 PM

To be honest Michael after chatting to yourself and getting educated about the paramount banjos i`m selling the paramount style C to a friend and i`m going to purchase the paramount leader in belfast

i`ve chatted to the bloke and we are going to sort something out for collection, you gave a great report to me on the leader model and a friend of mine says the same rosewood banjos are classic and have a great tone !!

so thanks for the advice and i`ll keep you updated on how the sale goes !!

kind regards paul

wuzapicker Says:
Saturday, September 1, 2012 @9:31:47 PM

Remember, I want that Style C' serial number for my database. If it is a 1924, it should have the same details as mine.

Also, when you get that Leader, I'd like that SN too. But I may have questions about the details.

banjopaul100 Says:
Sunday, September 2, 2012 @7:26:23 AM

i`m flying over to belfast saturday and collecting the banjo you can ask me any questions you want i`ll email some close up pictures for your data base and send the serial number hoepfully it will be as good as the style A in quality !

banjopaul100 Says:
Tuesday, September 4, 2012 @10:35:48 PM

the gentleman kindly packaged the paraount leader up and has sent it to me !!

how nice of him saved me a trip to n ireland

as soon as i have both the leader and style C serial numbers i`ll post the on too you
looking forward to playing the leader !!

banjopaul100 Says:
Thursday, September 6, 2012 @1:51:39 AM

hi michael, the serial number for the paramount style C is 3228

the serial number for the Leader is 8606

regards paul

wuzapicker Says:
Thursday, September 6, 2012 @6:41:42 AM

Thanks Paul,

Leader #8606 is also in my database: Paramount Leader, #8606, Plectrum, AR/1, IL/1, HN/4, PG/3, TH/1, TP/4. This would be a 1926 model with: Nickel plating, Barstock Armrest, Standard Bellflower style inlay, Page Figure-8 tuners with pot metal cases, Top grooved tension hoop, Page "Window Latch" tailpiece reading "Paramount, PAT. PND'G"

Your 1924 Paramount Style C should have the earlier tailpiece reading "IMPROVED Paramount PAT. PND'G". That was the 1923 tailpiece. The earlier border detail around the tailpiece cover was also different. The Page tailpiece marks changed in late 1924 or 1925.

My database shows this banjo as a plectrum instead of a tenor. I cannot say how or why that was at this point. Obviously it is a tenor banjo and I have corrected my database. As a tenor, your Leader #8606 went from Lange's factory outwardly identical to my 1925 Leader #5843. They may differ possibly with regard to the hook nut style applied.

Does your Leader #8606 have hook nuts that resemble small garden hose nozzles like your Style A? Or are they knurled with a crosshatch pattern? My Leader #5843 has knurled hook nuts. Lange used at least three different hook nut designs after 1922.

Michael

banjopaul100 Says:
Thursday, September 6, 2012 @7:31:58 AM

hi michael,

the paramount C came from a bloke who is always fiddling around with banjos, he recently converted an epihone style A plectrum to a tenor so he may have done the same with the style C using the pot from the plectrum and getting tenor neck, a marrige i think they call them, unfortunatly i have sold the C and sent it off today to it`s new owner so i can`t check if the neck and serial numbers match. i`ll be able to check the hook nuts tomorrow when i return home and see if there the same as the style A !

regards paul

wuzapicker Says:
Thursday, September 6, 2012 @7:49:50 AM

Yes, stuff gets switched around a lot. It was the Leader #8606's record line that raised a discrepancy. Switching Paramount necks is not easy. Each one was hand fitted to the pot and resonator and there are often visible differences. But hook nuts, armrests and tailpieces often get swapped around.

The point of my database is to represent as much as possible the original factory shipped state of each banjo. Only then do production trends and design changes become evident as patterns. I do not record obvious user modifications and conversions.

When you open the Leader please do check to see if the serial numbers correlate. But even if they don't I'll document both of them.

Michael

banjopaul100 Says:
Thursday, September 6, 2012 @8:33:36 AM

hi the leader serial number is 9098 and not 8606 !

it`s a very old stamp and it`s hard to read !!

wuzapicker Says:
Thursday, September 6, 2012 @10:51:19 AM

Thanks for the clarification. That dark rosewood rim contributes to the difficulty reading the number. But I think you will like the sound.

I restored the record for #8606 to "plectrum" status.

I think your Paramount Leader is a 1928 model. 1928 was Lange's most prolific year for Paramount banjos with something in the order of 3300 made that year.

Closest to your #9098 I document a Walnut Paramount Style B #9054 but have no data further describing the banjo.

I also document a 1928 nickle plated Paramount Style C tenor #9154 equipped thusly:

Barstock type Armrest (not the later Hot Dog type)
Tension Hoop grooved around the top, Hook nuts that resemble tiny water hose nipples
Page Figure-8 tuners with pot metal cases
Page Window Latch tailpiece that reads: "Paramount, PAT. PND'G".

I suspect your Paramount Leader #9098 is equipped much the same. Can you confirm or correct my suspicion?


Michael






Paramount Style C #9154 Tenor (19) AR/1, IL/2, HN/4, PG/3, TH/1, TP/4

banjopaul100 Says:
Thursday, September 6, 2012 @11:08:55 AM

the Leader has the bar stock armrest,
yes you have described the leader very well!!

Tension hoop grooved around the top,
Hook nuts that resemble hose nipples
Page figure 8 tuners with pot metal cases
Page window latch tailpiece that does read pat pending PAT,PND`G

what year would you say this Leader model is ?

thanks

wuzapicker Says:
Thursday, September 6, 2012 @12:07:11 PM

As I wrote before I believe it is a 1928 model.

That was the first year for Henry Ford's Model A automobiles.

Thanks for the help expanding my Paramount banjo database.

Cheers!
Michael