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Originally posted by GrahamHawker

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Originally posted by BG Banjo

 I will hold them with a pliers to keep them from twisting and see how that goes, but the twisting is not the only problem, the hook part giving up and then popping off is a problem too.
 

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I use the pliers to stop them popping off and use them on the hook part. I was told on here to use some material between the pliers and hook to protect the metalwork although I rarely do as it needs to be very thin so the pliers hold the hook.

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I have a pair on duckbill pliers that the jaws are smooth. It works well for the purpose. 

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Originally posted by Ira Gitlin

Am I the only one who saw this thread title and thought it was about our esteemed BHO member Joel?

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I do tend to get twisted.

Same problem here ... but on a Recording King RKOH-06 open-back. I am new, but thought I'd at least try to see if the hooks were all similar tension. 3 were not tight, not loose, but not as tight as the others. One was too tight (didn't feel like more tight was an option) ... I loosened that one, then re-tightened to give it a similar snug to the others ... and the hook rolled over the top of the tension ring and popped off. Holding it or not, I could not re-tighten it without it popping off. I had to loosen the shoe, tighten the hook to 'good enough but not tight', then re-tighten the shoe to the rim ... the top edge of the shoe is against the rim, but there is a 1/64th inch gap between the shoe and rim at the bottom (away from drum head) end. It's a brand new banjo and it's going to their banjo repair guy for a little warranty work ... I'm betting the tip and shaft of the bum hook are both bent. I'd be HIGHLY interested in buying good strong steel or brass hooks if I knew where and what to buy...

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Originally posted by TaterHead

Same problem here ... but on a Recording King RKOH-06 open-back. I am new, but thought I'd at least try to see if the hooks were all similar tension. 3 were not tight, not loose, but not as tight as the others. One was too tight (didn't feel like more tight was an option) ... I loosened that one, then re-tightened to give it a similar snug to the others ... and the hook rolled over the top of the tension ring and popped off. Holding it or not, I could not re-tighten it without it popping off. I had to loosen the shoe, tighten the hook to 'good enough but not tight', then re-tighten the shoe to the rim ... the top edge of the shoe is against the rim, but there is a 1/64th inch gap between the shoe and rim at the bottom (away from drum head) end. It's a brand new banjo and it's going to their banjo repair guy for a little warranty work ... I'm betting the tip and shaft of the bum hook are both bent. I'd be HIGHLY interested in buying good strong steel or brass hooks if I knew where and what to buy...

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The problem is not just the ridged flat hooks; the shape of the tension hoop is wrong too.

Golden Gate P-44 flat hooks and P-13  tension hoop match up fine iff your banjo is an 11" rim.  (practical upgrade)

The better domestic flat hooks are made to fit domestic tension hoops. 

Neither are going to work well with the rounded top import tension hoop (Goodtime hooks might work).

My Recording King RKOH-06 open-back has an 11" rim, I believe. The tension ring is round on top, not a flat surface. The tension hooks are also round (like a 'J') and the tip of the J-hook lands on the inside (towards center of banjo) of the rounded tension ring top ... past center of the tension ring's curved top. I'd love to find some nice strong steel tension hooks that would be a drop-in replacement for the ones the banjo came with. I'll start my telephone search tomorrow (Monday)... thanks.

I have a CC-OT with the same hooks and the same issue although not as bad as yours sounds. I make sure to keep an eye on them when tightening and straighten them with needle nose pliers if they angle off. By the time you replace all the cheap Gold Tone hardware you could just sell it and upgrade to a Stone banjo. I have one of his custom made and it is a world of difference above the Gold Tone.

My Enoch Tradesman has the same issue, sad to say. Any future banjos purchased will have a slotted hoop.

To BG Banjo and others,
If you go to Eagle Music, go on to Banjo - - Parts and accessories - brackets, keys, nuts & hooks, and a little down, you will find this: "Leader Banjo Co, Flat tension Hooks and rounded Nut. Matched pair". They are plated high tensil steel. It SEEMS to me, that they have a little wider curve and will maybe be better capable of handling a little wider tension hoop than stewmacs, that are best for slim tension bands and grooved hoops. The are not cheap, but we want the best for our banjos and have them for many years, and maybe it is your birthday soon :) . Good luck. Steen

I talked to Gold Tone. They don't seem to know what is causing them to twist other than perhaps the threads need cleaning and lubricated, which has been recommended here. Also, maybe I have them too tight. That is possible. They are s ending me a half dozen hooks to replace the ones I think are bending. I am still investigating options suggedted for better hooks. Someone suggested putting grooves it the tension hoop and using round hooks. He assured me it wasn't a big job. I am handy and have lots of tools. The one thing I'm not going to do is sell it and buy a new banjo just because the hooks aren't cooperating.

Nice of gold tone to send those hooks!

To BG and Taterhead. I think the hooks I just mentioned above from Eagle Music might be a good replacement, since they are made of steel for high tensions.
P.S.: Some of the flat hooks you can find have a bend just below the flatness (see the first picture here from Dean). That is because, flat hooks can in some cases twist a little (as you know) :), and if the aluminum flesh hoop on the head reaches farther out than the tension hoop, it might press the hook away from the tension hoop so it can not get a good grip in this and might want to twist when tightened. So check all hooks and if any of the hooks is pressed away from the tension hoop, take it out put it in a vice, take a hammer and give it just a little bend. Normally it is not the problem with these hooks, (they are simply not strong enough) but in some cases it can be.
yes it is nice of Gold Tone to send some extra hooks, but in my opinion it would be nicer not to put them on banjos for sale to innocent people :) Best wishes. Steen

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Originally posted by steen

To BG and Taterhead. I think the hooks I just mentioned above from Eagle Music might be a good replacement, since they are made of steel for high tensions.
P.S.: Some of the flat hooks you can find have a bend just below the flatness (see the first picture here from Dean). That is because, flat hooks can in some cases twist a little (as you know) :), and if the aluminum flesh hoop on the head reaches farther out than the tension hoop, it might press the hook away from the tension hoop so it can not get a good grip in this and might want to twist when tightened. So check all hooks and if any of the hooks is pressed away from the tension hoop, take it out put it in a vice, take a hammer and give it just a little bend. Normally it is not the problem with these hooks, (they are simply not strong enough) but in some cases it can be.
yes it is nice of Gold Tone to send some extra hooks, but in my opinion it would be nicer not to put them on banjos for sale to innocent people :) Best wishes. Steen

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I looked at that Eagle Music site and it appears that they are in England, if that is the one you are talking about.

Yes you are right they are English, but it seems that they work close together with Deering, so I am almost certain that the straight flat steel hooks Eagle sells are the same as the bended ones Deering sells. Deering also have some straight ones they sell in combination with their armrests. I do not know if they will sell them alone. I think Deering bend the others, because they don´t bother having trouble with people where the hooks twist for the reason I mentioned above. I personally think the straight ones look a little nicer, if you do not have trouble wih an alu . flesh hoop that reaches further out than the tension hoop. :) Steen

P.S. Deering also sells the nice rounded nuts. But it is not impossible that your own Gold Tone nuts are compatible too. It depends on the threads of course. 

An update, I got the replacement hooks from Gold Tone for the ones that have bent and they appear to be a little more substantial in the hook end itself. The hook part extends completely over the hoop and curls around it evenly. I have to wonder if it was a bad batch when they built my banjo. Anyway, It is my favorite banjo and it is good to have a full set of hooks on it again.

To BG.
Thanks for your update. So good to hear that you now have a solution that works for you :). Best wishes Steen