rkdjones - Posted - 03/15/2026:  15:06:21

I went to my first OT session, about 5 fiddles, 3 guitars, 2 banjos. one hammer dulcimer. I play the banjo. I go to ukulele sessions regularly and have been to a few bluegrass sessions. I just started trying to do some ear training to identify chords and scale degrees (I say try because I'm not sure any of it is sticking). Initially, I am just trying to play chords to accompany the lead instruments.

The easy part of OT is that they stay in one key for a long time, and the tunes are mostly a few simple chords. The hard part for me is the dominance of the fiddles playing melody, no bass fiddle, and guitarists are hard to hear. It is even hard for me to hear when the chord changes in many cases, much less know what chord they are going to. It is not in my experience in bluegrass (with a bass) or ukulele where everyone is playing chords together and, though I might not recognize the chord progression, I can hear the chord changes.

Since I was really uncertain about the chord transitions I was playing pretty softly and couldn't hear myself. Next time I go I will bring a pocket hearing device plugged into some through-the-bone headphones (e.g. youtube.com/watch?v=XV1NajA9vCQ) and clip it on to my banjo. It is basically a monitor. I think it will help.

I will take any advice anyone wants to offer about comping in an OT jam, or training my ear to hear the structure of the music from the melody played by the fiddlers.

Also I would appreciate any suggestions for apps that I can use to train my ear to hear the basic chord progressions (i.e. app plays a chord and asks me to identify it as 1,4, or 5).


Robert

writerrad - Posted - 03/15/2026:  15:33:06

I would imagine for any sane person who plays music, let alone a dulcimorian, going to an old time jam the first time would be confusing, I have been going to them for about 50 years and they continue to confuse me. When I have played on a gig or a dance with professional musicians, even with people who have been playing together all the time for years, there is a discussion about how the song or tune will be played., There will be discussion on how much as a guitarist or a banjoist I will play lead, there will be discussion even when I worked with professionals who play together for years about what tempo and which musicians needed to hear each other.

However, at an old time jam these days there is almost no discussion. The name of the tune and the key is announced. Usually no one has the guts to ask a question, like what tempo, who will take breaks. Even what version of some old time tune that some of us have 89 versions of, we will play,

Everyone is acting like they are supposed to know wht to do, but that is all bunk. It is not just being a new person or a dulcimorian that you are confused, everything is confused so the people like you who feel confused are honest, objective, or upright musicians who were raised properly by polite people who realized life is about intelligent cooperation among people working together,

The problem of all of this is that it leads to a kind of lowest common demoninator crude versions of tunes (there are some old time tunes I have about 20 different versions of on my hard drive) or people who are the biggest bangers and thumbers dominating.

People out to TALK TALK TALK to each other about how each song or tune is going to be played. Like I say when I played with professionals as a guitarist or a banjoist, a fiddler or singer would indicate how loud or from where they would want to hear my guitar backup, or how fast or how slow.

But there is nothing of the kind in most old time jams I started playing old time on the guitar when I was in high school like in 64 or 65 and I have been playing banjo in old time too since around 1999, but in a jam nobody says how fast, how slow or what, the way you do actually in playing the music,

You are just a person who is sensible rational and used to doing things right. You find it odd because none of this is done in the current jam culture, I have been playing old time since the 60s and i feel the same way. I know several well recorded semi professional old time banjo and guitar and fiddle players who feel the same way who simply avoid old time or bluegrass jams, but who delight in get togethers at someone's home where people discuss what they are going to do in advance, so everyone is accomodated,

Your asking these questions indicates that you are a welcome addition tot he world of old time music.

Thanks

cevant - Posted - 03/15/2026:  15:34:57

Record the jam and then learn their tunes. As a banjo player you can fake it for a while on some tunes, but you really have to learn the melodies. Otherwise it will always sound like you are hunting for chords and you will be late, which is annoying. Get the list of tunes that the jam usually plays and learn them all.

Nopix - Posted - 03/15/2026:  16:04:20

I can know a bunch of tunes and invariably the jam wouldn't play them, so I gave up. If I was banjer or guitar player, I'd sit across from a regular guitar player and watch his/her hands. Learn what a G, C, D, etc. chords look like. Indeed fiddle tune don't hit you with a solid melody. Often they're fiddly sounding. If you can't remember the tune titles, jot them down for next time, along with the key.

It's no secret, ima fiddle player by trade. I've been a side-man in several bands where I never knew what the next song was, nor the key. I took it as a good natured challenge. I wanted to jam and play in bands and that's what I worked towards.

ssduke - Posted - 03/15/2026:  16:11:00

You aren’t alone. I attended weekly old-time jams for a number of years and had the same issues. Two suggestions. While the guitarists might occasionally play melody or harmony, usually they are providing chordal rhythm. That’s their role. Since you are finding it hard to hear them, sit next to one of them, or even between two of them. That might make it easier to hear them making the chord changes. Second, get one of them, or a guitar buddy you have, to teach you what the fingering of the common chord shapes looks like. Then, with practice, you can follow a guitarist’s changes by watching his or her left hand, even when you can’t hear what they are doing. When I started attending old-time jams, one of the accomplished — and most supportive — banjo players told me it’s OK to just play chords. Do that. Get comfortable. Have fun. If the same tunes are played frequently enough, you will begin to find some of the melody notes within the chords, and you can begin to fit those in. That’s probably enough, as old-time jams are fiddle-centric and all the other instruments play a supporting role.

jdeluke137 - Posted - 03/15/2026:  16:39:23

Here’s something you might try to help you hear yourself better. Wear a brimmed hat. When I was playing in a band regularly I found wearing a hat with a brim helped me hear myself and the other instruments better. I’ve never been to an old time jam so I’m not sure it will help but it might be simpler than an ear monitor.

Silver_Falls - Posted - 03/15/2026:  18:27:44

5 fiddles is five fiddles too many

writerrad - Posted - 03/15/2026:  18:45:20

That is the problem with many jams. The mix of instruments does not come near what an actual playing situation in an old time band say composed of banjo, fiddle, and guitar. Many people who play old time music have most of their playing experience in such aggragations where what works well will be destructive if done in a real old time band. People do not learn the particulr role of the banjo or the guitar or for that matter the fiddle in these big jams. The larger the jam the less coherent it is. Many of these big jams should break down into smaller ones, One problem is there are a lot of retired violin players or people who tried to be violin plyers who invade old time playing sessions. These jams should set up smaller get togethers or practices of 3 or 4 people 5 at most to take time and work on one simple tune together and think about and discuss what they are going to do,

These jams seem to foster generic pablumized playing. There is often no discussion of particular ways to play a tune, as if there is one way to play every tune.

jsinjin - Posted - 03/15/2026:  20:15:30

My experience is that jam sessions, where the participants regularly play together and are at a high level of playing, use a form of tough love to keep the group at a desired level. The group actually enjoys playing together, they know the songs already and what they really enjoy is playing at that level for the time they have. Stopping to talk, discuss thjngs with a newcomer or provide feedback isn’t playing tunes together. I think that some groups really prefer a “closed” status or one where newcomers earn their position. I think that’s very good for them and their time and energy; expertise is hard to develop and time is valuable.

I don’t think I would ever enjoy the “guess this tune” sort of music playing in which a person starts to play and everyone else tries to figure out the song. That’s ok for those who do enjoy it and it’s ok for me that I don’t. I think if I ever found a group to play with it would be more like rehearsals in which the songs and music are known before and everyone can practice them and there is an order to the list. Like a book club but for music.

rkdjones - Posted - 03/15/2026:  20:38:22

Thanks, a couple ideas for me to try. Seems like I struck a nerve or two. Mostly, I'm just grateful to have people to play with who are happy to have a banjo show up.

As an aside, I am generally pretty pleased with the bluegrass group. The person who leads it owns the tavern and has been really supportive and directive. But OT is my preferred genre, love those modal tunes.

markxsherman - Posted - 03/16/2026:  02:21:33

What banjo are you bringing to the jam? Make and model?

Some banjos are easier to hear. I have a Deering Vintage Vega Star. I can't say enough good things about it. Its my jam banjo because I can hear it. That was not the case with my other banjos. One is listed at Elderly. I'd get it.

You ask good questions. A few suggestions if I may.

1. Get a few lessons from an experienced banjo player on how to play in a jam. OT banjo players don't always think in term of chords. Some explicit training will help.

2. Select a few tunes to work on. Try to figure out the chord changes and then look for the chords from a book or online sources. Don't look up the chords first. This takes time but you need practice figuring out chords.

3. You could briefly look at a tune to see what chords are used and then ser if you can figure out when they are played.

4. Sitting next to a guitar was a good suggestion.

5. Sit where you can easily hear the lead fiddler. What ever they play is the version you want to play.

6. May I assume when a tune starts you are listening to it a few times through before you start playing to get a sense of what you are trying to play?

Keep going to your jam. They are likely accepting of new participants. After a few sessions the tunes will become familiar. You will improve. It takes time. It sounds like you are in the right place to learn your jamming skills.

It will get easier.

You will become more confident in your playing. When practicing you my discover there is a choice of chords that sound good. In a jam, different chords may conflict in a tune. However, it doesn't mean the two guitars are always playing the "right" chords. You can interpret a tune your way, but try to hear what the jam is playing. I'm saying trust you ear.

There is a skillet you are working towards. In OT jams I think one is expected to be able to play a simple version of the tune after hearing it for the end time or so. I can do that for easy tune. Im still learning. We have two weekly OT jams in Portland Oregon that I'm aware of. One is slower than the other and we have a published tune list. You are welcome at either jam.

Finally, while it is frustrating to be lost, you will get better. So have fun learning with a group of musicians.



Mark

rkdjones - Posted - 03/16/2026:  08:22:44

Mark,
Those sound like good suggestions. I did take a class on playing jam sessions at Dusty Strings, our local store, and our instructor just taught us a few tunes, nothing really useful for jamming. I've been a little bit wary of paying for instruction after that. If I hear of someone actually teaching the skill, I will reconsider. (Maybe I should look for someone doing instruction for guitarists.)

You asked about what banjo I play. I have a Gold Tone AC12 (12" pot, composite rim). I like the tone of the 12" head. Volume is less of a limitation of the instrument than me trying to avoid playing the wrong chords loudly, so I play softly until I think I've got it. This is really off topic, but I like playing an inexpensive tenor banjo tuned dGBd. It is fine for comping, not so much for playing melodically. I put a homemade trap-door resonator on the back (youtube.com/watch?v=AFV_RrxBCRM). There's no retuning the fifth string when they change key.

Robert

dbrooks - Posted - 03/16/2026:  09:29:33

There's a great resource for developing your jamming skills here in the Forum. Give the Slow Jam Fizz link a try. Brendan D and Maxine Gerber lead slow jams for 43 tunes. The description and link are in n the sticky post at the top of this forum. 

 

David

pinenut - Posted - 03/16/2026:  12:26:34

quote:

---

Originally posted by rkdjones

I did take a class on playing jam sessions at Dusty Strings, our local store, and our instructor just taught us a few tunes, nothing really useful for jamming. I've been a little bit wary of paying for instruction after that. If I hear of someone actually teaching the skill, I will reconsider.  I think that it's this way everywhere; just have to go to the jams and 'work it out', sigh..

---

+1  

Edited by - pinenut on 03/16/2026 12:27:59

Adam Sea - Posted - 03/16/2026:  12:58:15

I've been to lots of OT jams in the last few years and I often leave frustrated for many of the same reasons the OP mentioned.

I mostly find myself sitting there trying to figure out the chord changes and lightly strumming along. I honestly don't get much out of it. OT isn't my preferred genre of music and I have trouble memorizing dozens of tunes.

I prefer going to folk jams that play actual songs - I can follow those better and contribute to them and therefore get more satisfaction from that. Bluegrass jams are fun too, even with clawhammer.

Lol, like some others, too many fiddles drive me nuts - I find them uncomfortably ear piercing. One or two is/are sufficient for me.

pinenut - Posted - 03/16/2026:  13:13:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by markxsherman

We have two weekly OT jams in Portland Oregon that I'm aware of. 

---

Hi Mark,

Where?  When?

I am only aware of the monthly OOTFA and a couple of BG jams.

Edited by - pinenut on 03/16/2026 13:15:22

markxsherman - Posted - 03/16/2026:  22:25:09

The Oregon Old Time Fiddlers Association is a great group. Wide range of tunes. They play around PDX too. And I've tried two separate BG jams. PDX is a great place for music. And our jazz and blues scene is top notch. Turns out there is also a Dixieland Jazz scene too.

Mark

pinenut - Posted - 03/17/2026:  09:18:38

quote:

---

Originally posted by markxsherman

The Oregon Old Time Fiddlers Association is a great group. Wide range of tunes. They play around PDX too. And I've tried two separate BG jams. PDX is a great place for music. And our jazz and blues scene is top notch. Turns out there is also a Dixieland Jazz scene too.  Yup.

Mark

---

What's the data on the two weekly Portland Old Time jams that you mentioned?

Edited by - pinenut on 03/17/2026 09:20:52

BrendanD - Posted - 03/18/2026:  05:26:43

quote:

---

Originally posted by dbrooks

There's a great resource for developing your jamming skills here in the Forum. Give the Slow Jam Fizz link a try. Brendan D and Maxine Gerber lead slow jams for 43 tunes. The description and link are in n the sticky post at the top of this forum. 

David

---

Thanks much for the mention of Slow Jam Fizz series, David! However, your description in the third sentence is a bit misleading, so I want to clarify that. Maxine and I created and hosted the Slow Jam Fizz series, but we only "lead" (in the musical sense, with friends), two of the 43 sessions. The actual leaders of the rest of the sessions are a wide variety of terrific old-time musicians, many well-known, who each graciously agreed to lead the sessions, and I do think, as you say, that the archived sessions are a great resource for both learning to play with others and to practice one's own listening and instrumental skills without feeling self-conscious about making mistakes - since no one can hear them but you! And you'll learn a whole bunch of terrific tunes to add to your repertoire along the way! I'd love to hear any feedback from people who find the series helpful!

Anyway, here's the link to my sticky post at the top of this forum, which explains the genesis of the series and also gives the links to the Slow Jam Fizz Playlist and also to its home page, on the website of the Berkeley Old-Time Music Convention:

banjohangout.org/topic/406744

EEB - Posted - 03/18/2026:  06:56:35

quote:

---

Originally posted by rkdjones

I will take any advice anyone wants to offer about comping in an OT jam, or training my ear to hear the structure of the music from the melody played by the fiddlers.

---

The ability to pick up tunes 'on the fly' can be nurtured or cultivated. But it is a durational process, unlike many aspects of music learning which are transactional.

It's also a set of interrelated processes that combine to achieve a desired aim. These elements can be explained and demonstrated. Playing by ear is not an innate and exclusive talent. It is not witchcraft.

My advice is to find an experienced ear player, who can demonstrate 1:1, nurture, explain and develop playing by ear with you away from session settings. Ideally someone who will also be on hand to observe and nurture you at the sessions you attend.

I have seen this happen with students/ friends that I have taught. The relatively unusual tuition aspect is the friend context. Friends are local and that enables regular, 1:1 nurturing and coaching of skills under observation. 

Edited by - EEB on 03/18/2026 07:14:16

earlstanleycrowe - Posted - 03/18/2026:  09:34:51

Only 5 fiddles would be an intimate old-time session around here. I've been to some where there are 15 or more.

pinenut - Posted - 03/18/2026:  11:13:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by EEB

quote:

---

Originally posted by rkdjones

I will take any advice anyone wants to offer about comping in an OT jam, or training my ear to hear the structure of the music from the melody played by the fiddlers.

---

The ability to pick up tunes 'on the fly' can be nurtured or cultivated. But it is a durational process, unlike many aspects of music learning which are transactional.  It's also a set of interrelated processes that combine to achieve a desired aim. These elements can be explained and demonstrated. Playing by ear is not an innate and exclusive talent. It is not witchcraft.  You are a unicorn.  

Most people have no idea how they learned.  The common explanation is, "I practiced more/harder than you and it just happened.". 

I have used this to sort out potentials and have not met anyone, face to face, that comprehends what is you have described.

 

My advice is to find an experienced ear player, who can demonstrate 1:1, nurture, explain and develop playing by ear with you away from session settings. Ideally someone who will also be on hand to observe and nurture you at the sessions you attend.

I have seen this happen with students/ friends that I have taught. The relatively unusual tuition aspect is the friend context. Friends are local and that enables regular, 1:1 nurturing and coaching of skills under observation. 

---

Everything you say is true, theoretically perfect and getting a mentor is excellent advice.  

Do you have any tips on how an adult can land a mentor that understands how to nurture music?

Edited by - pinenut on 03/18/2026 11:28:07

EEB - Posted - 03/18/2026:  13:16:38

It would be wonderful to be able to point every session newbie to a version of this support. But that accessibility would require a change to the culture; as I’m sure you’re aware, local sessions can resembles more like a herding of cats. Extend that diversity nationwide and a consistent standard of experienced, practical mentoring just isn’t available. Workshops, and slow jams ( which to be fair, do have a purpose) don’t touch the subject and single event contact is pretty much totally ineffective in terms of time and suitability to develop playing by ear.



Playing out in the community occasionally someone local will find us. I’ll pick up the beginner banjo player and establish from a very early stage what their aim is. Do they want to play with others? The answer (probably due to the nature of initial contact) is usually ‘yes’. So I get the seeds of ear playing sown almost from the outset.



My view is that session playing is most often treated as an afterthought. That faces a new player with the biggest possible gulf to bridge when they venture to their first session. Instead a banjo student can be acquiring the rudiments of what they’ll need from way back in their learning journey.

Reality is that the best sessions are 30-50% picking up tunes on the fly every time. That's the variety and the buzz. Learn to play by ear and a musician becomes independent. The idea of 'repertoire' recedes and you just play. Anywhere. Any session.

Edited by - EEB on 03/18/2026 13:20:29

Adam Sea - Posted - 03/19/2026:  14:13:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

---

Originally posted by EEB

quote:

---

Originally posted by rkdjones

I will take any advice anyone wants to offer about comping in an OT jam, or training my ear to hear the structure of the music from the melody played by the fiddlers.

---

The ability to pick up tunes 'on the fly' can be nurtured or cultivated. But it is a durational process, unlike many aspects of music learning which are transactional.  It's also a set of interrelated processes that combine to achieve a desired aim. These elements can be explained and demonstrated. Playing by ear is not an innate and exclusive talent. It is not witchcraft.  You are a unicorn.  

Most people have no idea how they learned.  The common explanation is, "I practiced more/harder than you and it just happened.". 

I have used this to sort out potentials and have not met anyone, face to face, that comprehends what is you have described.

 

My advice is to find an experienced ear player, who can demonstrate 1:1, nurture, explain and develop playing by ear with you away from session settings. Ideally someone who will also be on hand to observe and nurture you at the sessions you attend.

I have seen this happen with students/ friends that I have taught. The relatively unusual tuition aspect is the friend context. Friends are local and that enables regular, 1:1 nurturing and coaching of skills under observation. 

---

Everything you say is true, theoretically perfect and getting a mentor is excellent advice.  

Do you have any tips on how an adult can land a mentor that understands how to nurture music?

---

Yeah it's called hiring a teacher.  

pinenut - Posted - 03/19/2026:  15:11:01

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adam Sea

quote:

---

Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

---

Originally posted by EEB

quote:

---

Originally posted by rkdjones

---

The ability to pick up tunes 'on the fly' can be nurtured or cultivated. But it is a durational process, unlike many aspects of music learning which are transactional.  It's also a set of interrelated processes that combine to achieve a desired aim. These elements can be explained and demonstrated. Playing by ear is not an innate and exclusive talent. It is not witchcraft.  You are a unicorn.  

Most people, including teachers, have no idea how they learned.  The common explanation is, "I practiced more/harder than you and it just happened.". 

I have used this to sort out potentials and have not met anyone, face to face, that comprehends what is you have described.

---

Do you have any tips on how an adult can land a mentor that understands how to nurture music?

---

Yeah it's called hiring a teacher.   

---

You have, clearly, had better luck with paid "professionals".  

Edited by - pinenut on 03/19/2026 15:11:20

EEB - Posted - 03/20/2026:  06:05:20

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adam Sea

quote:

---

Originally posted by pinenut

quote:

---

Originally posted by EEB

quote:

---

Originally posted by rkdjones

I will take any advice anyone wants to offer about comping in an OT jam, or training my ear to hear the structure of the music from the melody played by the fiddlers.

---

The ability to pick up tunes 'on the fly' can be nurtured or cultivated. But it is a durational process, unlike many aspects of music learning which are transactional.  It's also a set of interrelated processes that combine to achieve a desired aim. These elements can be explained and demonstrated. Playing by ear is not an innate and exclusive talent. It is not witchcraft.  You are a unicorn.  

Most people have no idea how they learned.  The common explanation is, "I practiced more/harder than you and it just happened.". 

I have used this to sort out potentials and have not met anyone, face to face, that comprehends what is you have described.

 

My advice is to find an experienced ear player, who can demonstrate 1:1, nurture, explain and develop playing by ear with you away from session settings. Ideally someone who will also be on hand to observe and nurture you at the sessions you attend.

I have seen this happen with students/ friends that I have taught. The relatively unusual tuition aspect is the friend context. Friends are local and that enables regular, 1:1 nurturing and coaching of skills under observation. 

---

Everything you say is true, theoretically perfect and getting a mentor is excellent advice.  

Do you have any tips on how an adult can land a mentor that understands how to nurture music?

---

Yeah it's called hiring a teacher.  

---

That's making the assumption that people who are competent to teach students how to play the banjo necessarily have the ability to play by ear.

And that's before addressing the practicalities of whether, if the teacher can play by ear, they have the knowledge how to break down, explain and nurture that ability in someone else.

My own anecdotal observation here, is that the majority of people who teach banjo do not consistently pick tunes up on the fly in sessions. In my experience there are far more fiddle players with that ability. Banjo players? Very few.

My only point being, that your advice is likely poor advice in regard to ear playing.

Adam Sea - Posted - 03/20/2026:  07:34:48

My comment was not intended as advice at all - I was using sarcasm to respond to a question to your post, which I was presuming to also be a sarcastic one.



Not everyone has the opportunities to find someone with those elite abilities that you describe and willing to be a mentor for free.

Edited by - Adam Sea on 03/20/2026 07:37:13

EEB - Posted - 03/20/2026:  10:06:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adam Sea

My comment was not intended as advice at all - I was using sarcasm to respond to a question to your post, which I was presuming to also be a sarcastic one.



Not everyone has the opportunities to find someone with those elite abilities that you describe and willing to be a mentor for free.

---

A music skill only gains the label 'elite ability' when it is misunderstood.  My interest in contributing to this thread is to highlight that the means to picking up tunes on the fly can be shared and nurtured.

'Shared' and 'nurtured' are really not terms associated with elitism or exclusivity. You find them in relation to connectivity.

Being left hunched over your banjo at the margin of a session, fishing randomly for notes while another new tune goes racing by; that is exclusive. And that is so many people's session experience when not  'lucky' enough to be playing a familiar tune from their fixed learned repertoire.

If we were in the habit of inviting friends for a meal and then proceeded to talk over them and cut them out of conversation we'd quickly gain a bad name. Musically this is what happens all too often at sessions.

 

Edited by - EEB on 03/20/2026 10:19:47

Rusty - Posted - 03/20/2026:  10:38:59

Learn the guitar chord shapes then you will know the chord transitions. I play guitar and fiddle so it’s easy.