Is the lower edge of the tension hoop fetching up on the cut out in the heel? Or on any of the tension hook (or tailpiece) shoes? This is the surest way to break tension hoop tips. You're tightening but the tension hoop is firmly blocked from descending any further.

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

Is the lower edge of the tension hoop fetching up on the cut out in the heel? Or on any of the tension hook (or tailpiece) shoes? This is the surest way to break tension hoop tips. You're tightening but the tension hoop is firmly blocked from descending any further.

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I went down and checked. There is clearance there. But I can see what you are explaining and it is something I will keep an eye on. Thank you.

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

Is the lower edge of the tension hoop fetching up on the cut out in the heel? Or on any of the tension hook (or tailpiece) shoes? This is the surest way to break tension hoop tips. You're tightening but the tension hoop is firmly blocked from descending any further.

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Looking closer, I can see where the tension hoop is cocked just a little, almost imperceptible, but it is. I am going to loosen everything up and try to get it more even. I don't know if that is the problem with the hooks, but it is a problem none the less. I'm learning every day. Thanks.

Theoretically, the 'hook' part of the J hooks need to evenly match the top profile of the tension band. If they don't then they can't 'catch' under tension, hence the issue you are having.

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Originally posted by banjonz

Theoretically, the 'hook' part of the J hooks need to evenly match the top profile of the tension band. If they don't then they can't 'catch' under tension, hence the issue you are having.

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So messing with it and trying to keep one from twisting, The hook end does not go completely over the top of the tension hoop. I broke it. I sent an email to GT with a picture. We will see what they say.

I believe that those flat hooks are the cheapest and weekest on the market. Many people have experienced that they straighten out even before a normal tightness of the head. I think i would get some other hooks. There are good flat hooks out there. I don´t understand why Gold Tone will use them. Steen

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Originally posted by steen

I believe that those flat hooks are the cheapest and weekest on the market. Many people have experienced that they straighten out even before a normal tightness of the head. I think i would get some other hooks. There are good flat hooks out there. I don´t understand why Gold Tone will use them. Steen

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Do you have a link to some better flat hooks? Because I would change them out for something better.  I really like the banjo.

Make sure to lubricate The nuts and the threads. And it wouldn’t hurt to hold the hooks steady with some pliers as you tighten them.

Do all the hooks do this or just some of them?

I do not know if a Deering Goodtime J hook would fit. Maybe some one who knows could chime in. But I’ve had two modern Goodtimes, one a 12” and one an 11”, both only having 16 hooks each, and I was able to set the heads at 90 on the drum dial, and they did not bend or twist at all. Both banjos are still going strong with people I keep in touch with. It's hard to imagine hooks bending on a banjo with 23 hooks! 
deeringbanjos.com/collections/...t-j-hooks

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Originally posted by Banner Blue

Do all the hooks do this or just some of them?

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It started with one, then a couple more. Now probably half of them are. I did start using a pliers to hold them from twisting, but eventually the hook just loses the radius and they pop off. I was bending them back, but yesterday one broke doing that. I think that Steen is right, they are just soft metal and not very good hooks. Which is surprising, as the banjo itself is very nice. I'm going to look around for some better ones. I will look at the Deering hooks to start.

This one way around it. Double up on the amount of hooks.

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Originally posted by Dean T

 It's hard to imagine hooks bending on a banjo with 23 hooks! 
deeringbanjos.com/collections/...t-j-hooks

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They are pot metal it appears and they bend easily. But the radius of the hook does not go completely over the radius of the tension hoop.. It looks like a design flaw to me. They are more an L than a J, which allows them to twist out of shape.

Hi BG. I believe the ones I bought many years ago was from StewMac. The flat part of the hook is flat on the inside but nice and smooth rounded on the outside. I Think they were of nickel plated steel - strong and pretty and vintage looking. They also sold some "ball end like" nuts. Not exactly Vega style but good enough for my need. I do not know if Stewmac sell these things anymore.
I have on the net seen some that I think look like them ; Golden Gate - P44 1920 style - vintage style. And maybe others have them, maybe someone can help?? They should ONLY be flat inside and they should not have this inforcement strip in the middle.
The best of luck. I hope you can find something :) Steen

Pretty clear that the problem is cheap hooks that are slowly deteriorating under tension.
Know the difference between flat and round hooks when you buy replacements. They are not always interchangeable. Elderly, Stewmac, Balsam Banjo and Ode Banjo are all sources of good steel and brass hooks. Even quality solid brass hooks (not brass coated steel) will only work on banjos with 20+ hooks. They will break if used on banjos with fewer hooks as there is too much tension on each hook.

I got sick and tired of replacing hooks every time I worked on the banjo pictured above so I bought heaps of spares from China on eBay and as you can see I bought extra matching shoes even then I had to be careful tightening them up but when the job was done I was very satisfied. It didn’t really cost a lot but it did make the banjo a lot better. I think I had the head up to 94 on my drum dial at one stage. Now I just have to get rid of that horrible fiberskin head.

Yep, cheap pot metal from China. banjered

Try sticking a magnet to your hooks. I doubt anyone would make pot metal hooks.

The twisting action is most likely caused by poor threads on the hook or nut causing the threads to catch and twist the hook. A small amount of oil as suggested should help. If you see the hooks start to deform, quit turning the nut as you are overloading the parts and failure will result.

The hooks could still be poorly made of soft steel or bad design. Also as suggested, I'd look for new hooks and nuts from a reputable source.

Am I the only one who saw this thread title and thought it was about our esteemed BHO member Joel?

I've found this not to be unusual on banjos with this sort of hook. Some are worse then others. I use pliers to hold the hook in place on the tension hoop while I tighten it.

I fired off an email to Gold Tone the day before yesterday. They sent me an email back today and are sending me more hooks. So at least I have replacements for the ones bending and twisting. I will hold them with a pliers to keep them from twisting and see how that goes, but the twisting is not the only problem, the hook part giving up and then popping off is a problem too.

I think I will continue to look for some better hooks. But I have something on Sunday and I need to get through the next few weeks with it before I have some down time to really mess with it. If I can get that one replaced I'll leave well enough alone for a while. Thanks for all the input and advise. I appreciate it.

I Googled Stew Mac banjo tension hooks and got this:

stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware...KEALw_wcB

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Originally posted by BG Banjo

I think I will continue to look for some better hooks. But I have something on Sunday and I need to get through the next few weeks with it before I have some down time to really mess with it. If I can get that one replaced I'll leave well enough alone for a while. Thanks for all the input and advise. I appreciate it.

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The asian flat hooks with the heavy ridge are bad news and the Golden Gate P-44 or the better StewMac flat hooks probably won't grip the existing tension hoop correctly.  Typical flat hooks will need a grooved tension hoop or a well beveled one like Deering uses.

I think the only option that may fit the existing tension hoop are modern Goodtime flat hooks.  And, like Dean T says, "I was able to set the heads at 90 on the drum dial, and they did not bend or twist at all".  This is my experience with the Goodtime hooks too.

About the twisting.  Even those ridged hooks should hold straight with a thumb while tightening the nuts (no pliers).  Check the threads for easy turning off-banjo:  break them in and brush them smooth.  Apply paste wax to the threads before installation.

Below:  Gold Tone CC-Carlin12

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Originally posted by The Old Timer

I Googled Stew Mac banjo tension hooks and got this:

stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware...KEALw_wcB

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I am looking at those, and the Deering hooks to determine if they are going to work or not. 

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Originally posted by BG Banjo

 I will hold them with a pliers to keep them from twisting and see how that goes, but the twisting is not the only problem, the hook part giving up and then popping off is a problem too.
 

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I use the pliers to stop them popping off and use them on the hook part. I was told on here to use some material between the pliers and hook to protect the metalwork although I rarely do as it needs to be very thin so the pliers hold the hook.