You’re right about teaching, Jack - students want popular titles/ tunes to learn. I remember taking formal guitar lessons when I was 15 and those Mel Bay and Alfred’s books had old, mouldy tunes that I’d never heard of. Not everyone is a music historian…. very few are.

Yeah Man,
Thanks Chuck.....jb

whatever is the best chick magnet for the times--we were young once

I asked my guitar teacher back then to teach me “House of the Rising Sun” cuz I figured it was a cool, chick-magnet song ,,, but he didn’t know how to play it.

Yes, there’s nothing like a banjo player

.......chick magnet......is that phrase even acceptable nowadays ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by RioStat

.......chick magnet......is that phrase even acceptable nowadays ?

 

---

Ok, how 'bout chick repellent 

In the early 1970s, I tried to play guitar. The book had songs like Birmingham Jail, and Red River Valley. I think the idea was to have songs that everybody knew the melody for. I was having a hard time relating. My grandmother was from Galax and she wanted to hear me playing Red Wing.

I've only been hanging out at BHO for a couple years, but during both of those years the nature and frequency of the posts changed in the summer. There's probably posts about this in the archive. People go on vacation or get busy with summer chores and only the hard core users remain. I don't know if this is true or not but it does make sense to me.
Confession: I should not be here right now. I have a garden full of weeds waiting for my attention!

I think it is cute that the OP thinks modern old time banjo predates the year 1900.

Most of what is called "old time banjo" today took final from between 1960 and 1990.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Baker

Now, all or mostly what I see, is old time 2 finger or Clawhammer 

p.s. I know this has been brought up before but students don't like to learn songs with no Chords whatsoever as they can't have anyone accompany them. 

---

Missing philosophical element: 

Clawhammer and 2F/3F "old time" styles are designed for the accompaniment of a vocalist or melody maker.  Following the banjo player is a bad idea, because <insert punchline here>.  

These styles are not supposed to be accompanied (sideplay or role sharing are a good thing) and make sense when a person sings along while playing... 

"Musical accompaniment serves as the structural and emotional bedrock of a performance. Rather than competing with the lead vocal or soloist, it provides the essential foundation that elevates the entire piece. 

The core roles of accompaniment are highly collaborative and multifaceted:

• Rhythmic Foundation: It establishes and maintains the tempo and pulse. This anchors the soloist, acting as an internal metronome that keeps the performance synchronized and cohesive.
• Harmonic Support: By outlining chord progressions, the accompaniment provides a tonal center. This harmonic backing not only enriches the sound but also subliminally guides the lead performer to stay on pitch. 
• Emotional and Atmospheric Shaping: It sets the mood, genre, and tone of the piece. Changes in texture, dynamics, and orchestration can dramatically enhance the emotional resonance of the lyrics or melody.
• Structural Pacing: The accompaniment acts as a sonic map, providing introductions, count-ins, and interludes that cue the soloist when to enter or breathe. It also signals transitions, such as upcoming key changes.
• Foreground/Background Balancing: A skilled accompanist knows exactly when to step forward (such as during a brief instrumental fill) and when to fade back, ensuring the primary melody remains the clear focal point"

search core roles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accompaniment

Ha!
Spoken like a true engineer academic. Trouble is, you've missed the entire point of my post....Nice work researching though. I'm only talking about BHO...Jack

Joel,

A little more research is needed on your part. Just ignore the parts you don't agree with  HA...Jack   p.s.  do you teach Banjo or Guitar?"

  "This is an early "Classic banjo" piece from Frank B. Converse's 1865 banjo instruction book."  This date applies to other forms of banjo playing Joel.....Here is more fun. Banjo before 1900:

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

I think it is cute that the OP thinks modern old time banjo predates the year 1900.

Most of what is called "old time banjo" today took final from between 1960 and 1990.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Baker

Ha!
Spoken like a true engineer academic.  I identify as field personnel.  

Trouble is, you've missed the entire point of my post....  Nice work researching though.  I'm only talking about BHO...  Jack

---

Ha,

More Cuteness....JB

---

Originally posted by Jack Baker

Joel,

A little more research is needed on your part. Just ignore the parts you don't agree with  HA...Jack   p.s.  do you teach Banjo or Guitar?"

  "This is an early "Classic banjo" piece from Frank B. Converse's 1865 banjo instruction book."  This date applies to other forms of banjo playing Joel.....Here is more fun. Banjo before 1900:

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

I think it is cute that the OP thinks modern old time banjo predates the year 1900.

Most of what is called "old time banjo" today took final from between 1960 and 1990.

---

 

---

Exceptions prove the rule... I guess.

You know, down in our part of the country, it hasn’t been too many years ago since just the five string banjo and the fiddle was kind a called a band down that way, and when you mentioned a band, one would reach and get the fiddle and the other’n the banjo, and they’d have it all ready to go.

- Lester Flatt

No chords.

Hi Don,
Yes, I was born down there (Richmond Va). Yes the banjo, guitar, fiddle all played together because: They all knew the song and rehearsed it plenty of times...But yes, AWAY with Chords forever I tells ya....Jack   p.s. Get those Dang chords off of all those D tuning tabs of yours....There's a danger I/anyone may be able to hear the melody....pps. Next they'll be putting lyrics in them songs...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jack Baker

Hi Don,
Yes, I was born down there (Richmond Va). Yes the banjo, guitar, fiddle all played together because: They all knew the song and rehearsed it plenty of times...But yes, AWAY with Chords forever I tells ya....Jack   p.s. Get those Dang chords off of all those D tuning tabs of yours....There's a danger I/anyone may be able to hear the melody....pps. Next they'll be putting lyrics in them songs...

---

Well, you got me there, Jack!  That's what I get for showing some heartfelt compassion for all you banjo pickers who can't play a note without a guitar backing you up!  

Something you touched on that hasn't been discussed, I think there's definitely a trend towards clawhammer style but away from traditional music in general. I see a lot of clawhammer being played, quite skillfully I might add, by players that have little-to-no knowledge (or interest) of pre-90s music.

In an earlier post Jack included a link to a google search result. This is the best way to "do your own research". It is always very accurate and gives the full story.

As an added bonus, the result (at least for me) featured an image of Rhiannon Giddens. She represents the highest level of accurate and unbiased banjo research. She only speaks on the firmest of documented facts such as "the Snowdens wrote Dixie" and other gems of historical certainty.

(the above was written in a sarcastic font)

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

Something you touched on that hasn't been discussed, I think there's definitely a trend towards clawhammer style but away from traditional music in general. I see a lot of clawhammer being played, quite skillfully I might add, by players that have little-to-no knowledge (or interest) of pre-90s music.

---

So, exactly what was being done when "old time" was formulated in the first place?

1990s= 30 years ago.  1920-30= 1890.  Charlie Poole was playing tin pan alley hits from 1890s and later.

This is the most accurate form of continuing the tradition. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by chuckv97

students want popular titles/ tunes to learn. I remember taking formal guitar lessons when I was 15 and those Mel Bay and Alfred’s books had old, mouldy tunes that I’d never heard of.

---

Those moldy old tunes were public domain, so it cost nothing for publishers of instruction books to use them.

Popular songs would have cost money or at a mnimum required permission.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joel Hooks

quote:

---

Originally posted by KCJones

Something you touched on that hasn't been discussed, I think there's definitely a trend towards clawhammer style but away from traditional music in general. I see a lot of clawhammer being played, quite skillfully I might add, by players that have little-to-no knowledge (or interest) of pre-90s music.

---

So, exactly what was being done when "old time" was formulated in the first place?

1990s= 30 years ago.  1920-30= 1890.  Charlie Poole was playing tin pan alley hits from 1890s and later.

This is the most accurate form of continuing the tradition. 

---

There is a big difference between folkies in the 60s playing old mountain music that was derived from English/irish/Scottish folk/traditional music and kids nowadays playing Pearl Jam covers. 

I do agree with you that the "tradition" of techniques is being continued. People are still playing clawhammer or whatever you want to call it. But the old music itself is not being preserved in a way that it has been in previous generations.