courgettelawn - Posted - 10/25/2011:  00:20:07

Dear edhanzel,

How wonderful that you can play and sing along with or family. I think it is a rare thing these days. Cripple creek is definitely one of those songs you can't wait to speed up and I have only just started.

Butch--I have no idea where the phrase 'give it some welly' comes from but it conveys the energy required!

All the best
Tehmina

courgettelawn - Posted - 10/25/2011:  00:21:02

Dear edhanzel,

How wonderful that you can play and sing along with or family. I think it is a rare thing these days. Cripple creek is definitely one of those songs you can't wait to speed up and I have only just started.

Butch--I have no idea where the phrase 'give it some welly' comes from but it conveys the energy required!

All the best
Tehmina

Peanutscreams - Posted - 10/25/2011:  07:27:38

ChuckH55 - Posted - 10/25/2011:  07:42:35

Very nice!

courgettelawn - Posted - 10/25/2011:  10:07:02

That's beautiful, Butch. Simple music, heatfelt is the food of all our souls, that connects us together. You don't have to be a virtuoso to make that felt, good on you.

jajajavih - Posted - 10/25/2011:  10:53:36

That was awesome Butch. Thanks for share what an incredible human moment.

Peanutscreams - Posted - 10/25/2011:  18:46:15

sam-i-am - Posted - 10/26/2011:  09:38:24

Good going, Butch! You can't put a price on that. Awesome.

I played this weekend for my sister-in-law who probably won't be with us long term. I played Cripple Creek, and she actually knew what I was playing. She was impressed with the progress I have made since I last saw her in May. My wife and Myra are sisters. Their father grew up in the hollars of NE Tennessee near Bristol. The family was an old Appalachian musical front porch on weekends group. Her father played an old open back banjo, his brother played the fiddle and a sister played the guitar with others singing. Something you see in history books or museums. Her dad worked all summer when he was 10-years old to buy the banjo from a neighbor. I have identified it as a Busbee banjo. They were made at the end of the 1800's. Their heritage was mostly Cherokee. I asked my wife, Sue, if she has any pictures, but doesn't. It would have been in the 30's or early 40's.

Edited by - sam-i-am on 10/26/2011 09:39:17

ChuckH55 - Posted - 10/26/2011:  11:22:19

Great story, thanks for sharing that... I recall small family bands playing at the churches when I was a kid in the Carolina's. I think that is part of the reason I am trying to learn to play now.

lousymom - Posted - 10/26/2011:  14:07:28

Ok, I'm totally a newbie and trying to do this on my own with zero experience with an instrument, the banjo, etc. I just bought a Dean banjo a week and a half ago. I love it. But, as I practice (aka make random noises with it), my wrist starts bending funny and my hand turns into a claw. It makes my arm hurt. Can anyone give me a hint what I'm doing wrong. I suspect I am holding it wrong from the beginning. Anyone have any suggestions or photos or something? Thank you so much!!

sam-i-am - Posted - 10/26/2011:  14:21:23

Dear Lousymom, check the music store near you for a music teacher who can teach banjo. Then get a good beginner's banjo teaching book with DVD and CD enclosed. The  book will teach you the steps, terminology, hand placement, etc. The teacher will actually teach you how to play. At least that has been my experience. You other newbies have your own ideas that will help I'm sure. Take your time and make sure you practice good habits. I can't overemphasize the live teacher.

Tunez - Posted - 10/26/2011:  14:41:11

I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to everyone who keeps this forum running! I have been away from my home for a few weeks for some training and brought my banjo with me. (Thanks to everyone who responded to my "Need a Case" post!) I have been really busy and have not had much of a chance to practice. Today I realized it had been long enough. I picked the thing up, tuned it, and surprisingly had a nice little practice session for an hour or so. I hope my close neighbors don't mind the racket coming through the walls! Does anyone feel that practicing with fingerpicks is harder than just plucking the strings with your fingertips? I finally made it past the pinch version of "The Old Gray Goose" and I am making it slowly through the Forward-Reverse Roll version. I am totally motivated again! I want to pick up a few easy Christmas tunes to play for my family over the Holidays. (Any suggestions?) I haven't posted anything for awhile, but I certainly enjoy reading the new posts daily. Thanks for sharing your experiences, thoughts, and friendly advice! If there are any fellow beginners in the Jacksonville, FL area, let me know and maybe we can get through some songs and some beers together!

Zack

ChuckH55 - Posted - 10/26/2011:  15:17:47

GOOD FOR YOU! We are a family of sorts and we need to help when and if we can!

Tunez - Posted - 10/26/2011:  15:51:26

Thanks Chuck! I totally agree!

gullideth - Posted - 10/26/2011:  16:39:39

Oh...here is the beginners forum/thread...I was looking for this! This is my first week EVER playing banjo and I love it. I play a teeny bit of guitar so I knew how to tune and string my banjos....I inherited two from my Godfather who passed away.... I also play a bit of harmonica....and I had many years of vocal training. I really hope to pick this up. So far I really enjoy banjo more than I did guitar. Im practicing basic rolls and hope to move on to a real song within a month. Nice to meet everyone.

Peanutscreams - Posted - 10/26/2011:  17:49:37

Thanks sam - I - am - Your so right can not put a price on that one! I'm actually in the hollars of NE Tennessee tonight. I'm holed up in Kingsport. Wow this is my first time in this part of the country and it is one heck of beautiful! I can look up in the hills and picture your kin folk a slappin and pickin and a singin on their porch!

Just met my brother and his wife for dinner, he has an office here and decided to bring his banjo with him on this trip. He really wants to learn to pick so here we go, got another newbie signing on soon I think! Going to start him off the right way with FMB and Cripple Creek using Rob B. lesson plan.

That was good advice you gave lousymom, I was going to say perhaps she may be a natural for clawhammer style.

Tunez, I would recommend getting Casey Henry's Christmas collection for beginners, she has good simple clean instruction and great songs on that dvd. Go to her web site caseyhenry.com Good Luck.

Butch B.  

Remillo - Posted - 10/26/2011:  19:10:05

Well, I guess I should post here one of these days! I've owned a Banjo for maybe 5 years now, though technically it belonged to my mom. Neither of us really actually learned how to play it, but I've been thinking about it for a while. I've been able to learn basic rolls from "Teach Yourself ____!" Books and I've picked out a few melodic, less-roll-intensive songs that I can play pretty well. But, honestly, I only know three chords and these books aren't really going to help me at all. So I'm gonna start up lessons soon, once I find a good teacher. Seeing all this love for a stereotyped, under-appreciated instrument on this forum and the musical genius of those like Bela Fleck (Honestly my Idol and Inspiration) makes me want to seriously learn how to play this gorgeous thing that is little more than a fretboard attached to a Drum head.

Primarily, I'm a Percussionist, so I'm used to having notes laid out in front of me. Frets are... quite new. As I'm picking out melodies to songs and figuring out that "No, I don't have to move my fingers that much to get specific intervals", and just generally learning how Frets work. But, as I tell my Guitar-playing friends, I find 6 strings just a bit excessive.

But I'm glad that the Banjo is my first choice in Frets. I will always love this instrument and I'm glad to be able to see through Stereotypes to the wonder that this thing really is.

minstrelmike - Posted - 10/27/2011:  09:33:41

If you want to learn chords, don't work on rolls.

Do two different practice things (at least).

For learning chords (and basic music), strum the banjo like a first-day guitarist and work your way through fakebooks of--this is the most important requirement--already familiar songs. Don't try to learn new official banjo stuff that you wouldn't recognize if you heard it on the radio. (But keep practicing the finger-picking and good stuff will eventually happen).

Do your up-the-neck chords first. They are easier to make where the frets are closer together and once you start finding patterns, all the 1,4,5 we talk about makes a lot more sense.

The reason for strumming is that your chords aren't going to be well-formed for a few weeks anyway and strumming sounds okay even if a string or two is a clunker.

The reason for doing familiar stuff is so that -you'll- know when you have it wrong. I don't need to use metronomes with folks who play stuff they can already hum because they have some music in their head that is different from the banjo sound so they learn to hear the song inside the banjo instead of just produce the correct fingering motions from the lessons and hope it sounded good (because the student can't tell from his or her own ear).

Here are some basic songs to try: moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/songs/index.html

but the best book is your favorite band (rock/pop/whatever) from high school. Do the chords to stuff you sing in the shower and you'll immediately understand how chords come together to make songs.

/* Once you have a few songs that strum okay for you, try picking them. If you can think of picking as a rhythmic thing like a strum instead of a specific this-string-plucked-here lick, then you end up way ahead of the game */

lousymom - Posted - 10/27/2011:  10:45:01

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. I have been working from two different books for beginners with a CD. (I like to go back and forth in the learning styles.) But getting a teacher is tough. The only time I really have is when my kids are in bed and then I'm stuck at home. I think I'm stuck working through this on my own for a while. It's ok, just slower.

Maybe I'll look into clawhammer. I don't know anything about it.

lousymom - Posted - 10/27/2011:  10:46:37

Hello fellow newbie. Nice to meet you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by gullideth

Oh...here is the beginners forum/thread...I was looking for this! This is my first week EVER playing banjo and I love it. I play a teeny bit of guitar so I knew how to tune and string my banjos....I inherited two from my Godfather who passed away.... I also play a bit of harmonica....and I had many years of vocal training. I really hope to pick this up. So far I really enjoy banjo more than I did guitar. Im practicing basic rolls and hope to move on to a real song within a month. Nice to meet everyone.

 

---

Max Sand - Posted - 10/27/2011:  13:41:52

Hi Folks, just wanted to say hello. I took the advice here and went to Mike Moxey's site to check out the wealth of info. This is a great hangout. Have a great day!

courgettelawn - Posted - 10/27/2011:  14:37:19

Lousymom, it is hard to see the right path but it is worthwhile learning slow and teaching yourself at your own pace. I have been blogging my route as a beginner on my blog tehmina.org

I would definitely recommend finding a tutorial you can get on with that will give you tips on posture, position etc and stick to it for a while rather than jumping around too much in the early days. It has certainly helped me. I am working through Janet Davis You can teach yourself banjo with her DVD and love it. No huge leaps in understanding required.

All that said, I am keen to give a bit of clawhammer a go and got myself Wayne Erbsen's Clawhammer for the Complete Ignoramus but not tried it yet.

Good luck! Tehmina

sam-i-am - Posted - 10/28/2011:  06:14:13

I just bought the clawhammer book that you mentioned, Clawhammer for the Complete Ignoramus. Great book. Just starting.

skybolt - Posted - 10/28/2011:  07:14:52

It gives me a good, warm feeling to see that so many folks are taking up the banjo. I will assure you that you will get back everything you put into it many times over. Good luck to all.

edhanzel - Posted - 10/28/2011:  21:04:08

Mike,
Thank you for the link. I just, learned cripple creek from Rob's you tube videos......other than picking up the pace....which I think may take years...I can make it thru pretty good.

I was wondering when practicing all the different rolls and chords would start turning into playing a song or two. I think it would have been tougher to learn cripple creek if i was not already comfortable with the banjo. Learning the rolls and chords ahead of time really helped.
I am very encouraged and ready to take on more songs. So....off I go and thanks for the link.

Edited by - edhanzel on 10/28/2011 21:05:22

fire suppressor - Posted - 10/29/2011:  03:42:37

Hey guys had a simple question for you all. I know there is no one answer but how long could it expect it to take me before I can start playing my first song? I just bought my first banjo this week and am teaching my self rolls I have not started to learn how to fret yet. I am in no rush and I know it will take weeks before I am playing a song. I am 25 and have spent my entire adult life working as a Firefighter/EMT. In that time my body and mind have become conditioned to lifting weights, tossing gear around and memorizing protocols. I am having fun learning but my body and mind is telling me it's having trouble memorizing what I am asking it to do, I feel like I am using a part of my brain that has been inactive for years. I feel like I am learning a new language and like any language it takes time. Has anyone had this problem? How long did it take for your brain to adapt? Thanks everyone!

Edited by - fire suppressor on 10/29/2011 03:46:28

Max Sand - Posted - 10/29/2011:  05:56:10

Fire Suppressor.... how long are your practice sessions. You need to do at least half an hour a day to start building muscle memory in your fingers. An hour is much better. You can expect to play some simple C,D7, G songs in a month or two if you practice those rolls diligently. Have you got a music book?  Are you learning on line or with a teacher?

Pogue Mahone - Posted - 10/29/2011:  06:30:55

What a great site.

I have always wanted to play the banjo, but I have not touched a stringed instrument since 8th grade (30 years).  Well my wife and kids called my bluff and gave me a banjo and a book for my birthday.  I'm am a week and a half in and had my first lesson yesterday.  My teacher is great and I think this is going to be such a great thing.  I feel lucky to have found such a fantastic teacher a couple blocks from my house. 

I am having so much fun I can't believe it.  I am fortunate to have a lot of free time for practice and it will be fun to see where this goes.

I look forward to chatting with all my fellow newbies.

Pogue

Jazz Country - Posted - 10/29/2011:  11:42:11

Hey Pogue - which weighs more, your banjo or one of those whales you snagged?

Congratulations on getting your new banjo! You can feel fortunate that you have a good teacher close by. It will make all the difference in the world.

Larry

Pogue Mahone - Posted - 10/29/2011:  12:10:02

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazz Country

Hey Pogue - which weighs more, your banjo or one of those whales you snagged?

Congratulations on getting your new banjo! You can feel fortunate that you have a good teacher close by. It will make all the difference in the world.

 

Larry

---

Definitely those Dorado...you should see the bruise on my knee from thinking I had clubbed the one in my right hand hard enough be fore I tried to drop him in the live well...and he decided he wasn't quite done fighting.  That was a week ago.

Ouch.

Bruce G - Posted - 10/29/2011:  18:12:11

Congrats Fire Suppressor,
I can tell you from a fellow firefighters point of view. It took me about three weeks to learn Bile Dem Cabbage Down. The basic song is nothing but a forward roll. It was the first song I learned and probably the best to learn. I bought the book called - You Can Teach Yourself BANJO by Mel Bay. I'm still learning and yes it is like learning a new language especally since our minds are so conditioned to think in fire related terms and not tabs and cords. Take your time and whatever you do have fun with it.

fire suppressor - Posted - 10/29/2011:  23:10:26

Thanks everyone for replying to me, Bruce I have the same book and love it and am currently learning the roll out of the book for boil dem cabbage down . I am practicing 30 min a day sometimes 60 min but I split into two 30 min sessions. I don't sound like much yet still working on my roll but don't really care I am still having fun I know the rest will come with time

Pogue Mahone - Posted - 10/30/2011:  06:30:43

Hey FS...here is a link to one of the TT youtube lessons on Boil Them Cabbage.  Its kind of neat because it uses a forward backward roll instead of just the forward roll...it sounds really good if you can put it all together.

Mine is still pretty choppy but it is fun to practice a song and practice the rolls at the same time.  If only I could sing better than my labrador.  I played for hours yesterday and must have driven my poor wife crazy. On a positive note I have found that it IS absolutely possible to watch a hockey game and practice banjo rolls simultaneously.  So I have that going for me.

Max Sand - Posted - 10/30/2011:  07:33:57

'Pogue Mahone'............well done lad, that's a really funny moniker. I wonder how many people understand the gaelic lol!

This is my favourite Irish expression......' may the skin of your arse never cover a banjo head'........my da was a jazz musician (played bass), hated banjo but that that was one of his expressions.

---

Pogue Mahone - Posted - 10/30/2011:  08:26:39

Whoops forgot the link...sorry.

Boil Them Cabbage  Mixed Rolls

lousymom - Posted - 10/30/2011:  09:42:05

Geez. Am I ever going to get there? I haven't even tried rolls yet. Still trying to get my fingers to stay on the right strings in chords.

JAFO - Posted - 10/30/2011:  09:53:13

LousyMom, I'm just a newbie like you so I'm no expert, but perhaps a different approach might help. Just a few short weeks ago I was getting frustrated and thinking about quitting ...again. Try just doing rolls with the picking hand. forget the chords for now. Once you get the rolls going, just fret ONE string, (try the second fret, third string) then use that for variety in your rolls. You can make some really pleasing sounds doing that. As you get more proficient at that you just add a little more, mix up the rolls, add another chord here or there, or work on a simple song.

 For me, the turning point was when I got to make some sounds that represented music, and then when my instructor gave me some really simple songs and I found the tab for one that I REALLY wanted to learn I went from forcing myself to do 30-60 minutes a day to getting lost in my practice for 3 or more hours at a time. It was like magic. Yesterday I had the banjo in my lap for about 5-6 hours while I watched the snow come down. It worked for me, it might work for you.

 Keep picking and good luck.

JAFO

sam-i-am - Posted - 10/30/2011:  15:39:10

Most of the instruction videos and my instructor says to take the first roll TITM and repeat that slowly until you can do it and watch TV or read a book and not miss a beat. That will take hours unless you are a gifted person. Once you can do it faster, make sure you get a metronome or get an online free metronome simple.bestmetronome.com/  and get the roll in time with it. Don't worry about going fast. That will come MUCH later. Next learn the forward roll and the backward roll. Same routine as before.

Make sure that you learn the proper hand and finger technique or you'll be unlearning it later. I"m going through that with my thumb.

Don't try to learn too fast. This is a slow process for most folks that will payoff later. Just have fun. Enjoy the journey.

Oh, if you have Sirius/XM, listen on-line or in your car to channel 61, Bluegrass Junction. I have it on right now.

Edited by - sam-i-am on 10/30/2011 15:41:17

Jazz Country - Posted - 10/30/2011:  16:47:17

Lousymom, you have to hang in there. Whether it's banjo, guitar, or any other instrument it's going to take time, lots of it. You'll have good days and bad days but if you practice and study properly you will make progress, guaranteed. The #1 thing you can do to get on the right path is to sign up for a lesson plan with a capable teacher. Before long you'll have the basics down and be able to play songs

Larry

mudlakesandy - Posted - 10/30/2011:  16:50:06

Right hand ring finger position is really critical for comfort and clarity. I really struggled with this for weeks and it is starting to get easier. Somewhere here is a post including an article by Hawthorne that really helped me out- I am working back and forth between the Scruggs book and the Mel Bay book. And in spare moments just practicing the rolls. CC, Blackberry Blossom, and Cabbage are good practice pieces- work on smooth and clear and low and behold a bit more speed comes with time. Listen to it, watch it on you tube- get it in your head and it really helps the practice. If you can play it slow and clear it WILL come................................

fire suppressor - Posted - 10/31/2011:  01:07:57

How important are finger picks? I haven''t had my banjo for quiet a week yet and every time I try to use picks it's like starting day one all over again

Airhead - Posted - 10/31/2011:  01:31:03

Let me be a warning to you all, did my first 18 months, then got caught up with other issues and the fact my teacher moved, did little for 6 months then nothing for the last 18 months. I am virtually back at the beginning again. So, little steps and play each day.

Hi, I'm Steve and I am on my second day of picking up the Banjo. And I'm hanging for a beer.

courgettelawn - Posted - 10/31/2011:  02:03:40

Many of us seem to be having a 'back to basics' moment! Yesterday I decided to go back to basics and return to just practising rolls and getting the timing right. I was finding I could not, as Butch said earlier, 'finish' pieces. I can pick them up fine but never get it smooth and so was never able to satisfactorily speed it up to tempo where required. Getting fed up with myself, my hand positions and everything I thought the best thing to do was to go back to concentrating on clean picking and timing so I repeatedly practised rolls to a metronome beat. Then I tried Bile Dem Cabbage Down and it sounded like a different person playing.

I can definitely recommend Larry's words of wisdom about having patients and knowing you will hit good patches and bad patches when teaching yourself. I am also going to try and record myself more regularly (although it will be a LONG while before I am brave enough to post anything ;-)

sam-i-am - Posted - 10/31/2011:  05:22:27

I cannot learn a new song by trying to play it all the way through. I take the first measure and play it over and over until I am comfortable. Then I go to the second measure and repeat the process. Then I do the two together and repeat them. Just repeat that process until I get all of it. Listen to the song on the CD and  tap your foot when playing. Your fingers will stay in time with your foot. It's like walking and swinging your arms.

minstrelmike - Posted - 10/31/2011:  07:36:58

I think the problem with sam-i-am's approach is that many newbie pickers tend to sound good at beginnings and then have trouble finishing the song off.

It's a common problem because if you take the perfect-measure approach, then you end up practicing measure #1 a hundred times more than you practice measure #32.

A hybrid approach is to break the song into lines and do it by line. Get the first 4 measures in line 1 correct one at a time and then once you can play line one fully thru, start on line two and don't practice line 1 that much and when you do, practice it as a full line. You still end up putting more focus on the beginning of the song than the end, but less than you were which means you are practicing more different things.

Max Sand - Posted - 10/31/2011:  13:16:13

Hey sam-i-am........thanks for the metronome. Works great. :)

sam-i-am - Posted - 10/31/2011:  19:25:59

Well, I can't remember that much at one time. I do what you suggest. Once I get a section memorized, I don't have to keep repeating that section. It  boils down to what each person finds that works.

I'm glad the metronome works for you, Max

Edited by - sam-i-am on 10/31/2011 19:32:22

Airhead - Posted - 11/01/2011:  01:34:54

I have to say too that coming on-line and reading of other members experience and the advice contained has motivated me some.

Max Sand - Posted - 11/01/2011:  07:38:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by fire suppressor

How important are finger picks? I haven''t had my banjo for quiet a week yet and every time I try to use picks it's like starting day one all over again

---

 they are really important if you want to get that authentic bluegrass pickin' sound. Are you using them the right way. You can download a photo that will show you the correct right hand positions with the finger and thumb picks on. They should make your string pluckin' more accurate if worn properly.