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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/191622/6
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GW in Ohio - Posted - 01/27/2011: 10:52:22
I'm not exactly a beginner, but I'm not a great banjoist, either. I've been playing for about 7-8 years and I can pretty much accompany any song and play a banjo break for that song in just about any key. I sometimes take off my fingerpicks during a jam because the song someone is doing goes better with clawhammer banjo.
I mainly use a mixed roll in my playing, and can vary the tempo and switch over to a different roll if need be, to fit the requirements of the song. I also like to sing, and when it's my turn in a jam, I can do a banjo lead-in to my song, then do the vocals, and also take an instrumental break on the song.
I don't have real expensive banjos. I've got a couple that I purchased from Banjo Hangout member Dan Pennington, and I'm comfortable with them. I just purchased a Morgan Monroe banjo from another Hangout member because I want an instrument with a brass tone ring.
I still want to progress by adding some licks, and someday I'll be able to play Foggy Mtn. Breakdown. But I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at right now. I'm having fun and it's an enjoyable experience every time I pick up a banjo.
GW in Ohio - Posted - 01/27/2011: 10:57:00
On the subject of banjo instruction books, I would say that Pete Seeger's book, How To Play the 5-String Banjo, is the best one for beginners. It takes you through all the various styles, from clawhammer to Scruggs style, and has a lot of useful information besides.
Pete wrote it about 40 years ago and it's still the best beginner's book out there. You can get a copy from Amazon.com for around $13.00.
Willedmat - Posted - 01/27/2011: 20:54:16
I have been playing guitar for many years and have had a mountain of fun with it but I just started playing (at 60yrs) the Banjo in July and it is more fun than any instrument I have ever played! I got a Goodtime Classic II because I did not want to spend a bundle upfront and I wanted to buy American. I really like it. I was using an old 1970's Kay that I was given in the seventies but did not use until July. I just put a Tone Enhancer in the Goodtime and it really works. The sound was good to me but now it makes everything sound better.
This site is great and I read it almost everyday for hints and insights. Everyone on it is friendly and helpful. Thanks.
dirtygeorge - Posted - 01/28/2011: 03:42:19
I bought a Morgan Monroe MNB1 and didn't see the little sticker on it that says Made in China.. sigh.. Wish I would have gotten one that was made in the USA. I had the money then to buy what ever I wanted.
DrG - Posted - 01/28/2011: 05:01:03
Rolls Rolls Rolls...Making progress! I have been practicing mostly right hand rolls since before Christmas and I see it really paying off. At first I just practiced each roll over and over, trying to repeat it without the precarious "off beat" note. Now I have been able to put rolls together... forward, reverse, mixed etc. I am getting excited...practice really pays off! I will continue to work hard on my right hand technique but will try to practice with single chords on my left hand now, while practicing my rolls. I love banjo!!!!!
Is there a book that includes alot of rolls out there, I need to expand my roll practice?
minstrelmike - Posted - 01/28/2011: 06:17:53
There are many, many rolls, or there are none whatsoever. (Zen banjo)
If you think about all possible 8-stroke rolls with three fingers and no finger hitting twice in a row, then the first note has three choices and the rest of the strokes have two choices--the other two fingers.
So there are 3x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 rolls.
Another pov is that there are no 8-point rolls, just these permutations you can put together tim tmi tm/ti im/it mi/mt
Another option is to realize that the fmb roll: im tm timt is exactly the same as this forward roll: tm tim tim
Put two of them together: tm tim tim ; tm tim tim then start at the 7th stroke im ; tm tim t
There are probably books but doing rolls independent of doing songs seems sort of superfluous to me.
1.To get your rolls even so you can switch between them at will, I like fretting the 1st string 5th fret, the 2nd string 8th fret and using the open 5th string and only doing rolls on those three strings. they all sound the same note so you ought to be able to switch between forward and square (and any pattern) without hearing any change in rhythm. Next is to do the same thing but try to emphasize certain notes regardless of the current roll you are using.
2. Do actual melodies to songs and then use rolls to express them in as many different ways as possible. That's real-world use of rolls.
GW in Ohio - Posted - 01/28/2011: 07:42:08
quote:
Originally posted by dirtygeorge
I bought a Morgan Monroe MNB1 and didn't see the little sticker on it that says Made in China.. sigh.. Wish I would have gotten one that was made in the USA. I had the money then to buy what ever I wanted.
GW in Ohio - Posted - 01/28/2011: 07:43:52
quote:
Originally posted by DrG
Rolls Rolls Rolls...Making progress! I have been practicing mostly right hand rolls since before Christmas and I see it really paying off. At first I just practiced each roll over and over, trying to repeat it without the precarious "off beat" note. Now I have been able to put rolls together... forward, reverse, mixed etc. I am getting excited...practice really pays off! I will continue to work hard on my right hand technique but will try to practice with single chords on my left hand now, while practicing my rolls. I love banjo!!!!!
Is there a book that includes alot of rolls out there, I need to expand my roll practice?
Augie - Posted - 01/28/2011: 08:50:13
Hi Guys,
I bought a Morgan Monroe Cascade MFB-5DX in May of 2010 and have been very pleased with it. I haven't found a bad review on it. I think that it was made in Korea, not sure. I tightened the head and put light weight strings on it and a Snuffy Smith III bridge. It sounds great. Made in America is nice to have on a product, but there's a whole world out there that can copy and many times improve on American made stuff. Don't let the name be your only criteria for quality. Enjoy what you have.
Augie
PS I do try to buy American, but much of it is build with parts from elsewhere.
Edited by - Augie on 01/28/2011 08:53:59
dirtygeorge - Posted - 01/28/2011: 20:19:48
to Me it's Great GW just wish it was made in the US of A is all.
drefoss - Posted - 01/30/2011: 18:39:59
Well hello everyone I've been hear for a few months now and don't say much but do a lot of reading, to much sometimes it really cuts into my practice time LOL.I think this is a great site and everyone seems so friendly and willing to help which i think is great because if you look at the world there are not a lot of people that would help anyone at anytime, so I guess Banjo players are a different breed.There are great sites passed on here and endless info, it has helped me a lot well i think so anyways. I can struggle through a few songs now pretty well all beginner stuff but I love it. I have a Flinthill that I bought new for $160.00 new I want to upgrade, can you blame me?? LOL, I think I will get The Morgan Monroe Cascade, Thought about the Gold Tone BG250F but from the video clips I listen to I like the sound of the Morgan Monroe Better(if they are not doctored) was ready to buy a Deering Special but now the cascade. what do you guys think?I looked at all the reviews and they seem good, about the only complaint is the tuners, have they improved them?Anyways guys and gals I really enjoy the Beginners Forum and the postings you guys do so keep it going, and there is even a Doctor in the house !!! Some of you have Casades do you still like them?
Mike
fruitbat - Posted - 01/31/2011: 05:15:50
Hi all fellow beginners.
Gold Tone arrives tomorrow. I have read all the theory and watched a lot of video tuition. All I need now is the instrument. I played guitar for a few years (well, sort of), and am really looking forward to the banjo. From what I have read, it's going to be a steep learning curve and should be fun. If anyone's interested, I will let you all know how I am getting on from time to time. In the meantime,
enjoy your banjos and hopefully, I will one day be able to play.
Regards from the UK.
Den
Tish - Posted - 01/31/2011: 05:29:48
I just wanted to welcome Den to BHO....This is a wonderful source for Banjo anything and everything. The best advice I got when I first started playing (Clawhammer) was to just practice the strum hand for hours and days until it became a subconscious movement. It took me awhile to find the style I wanted to play but if while testing Clawhammer I had not done this I wouldn't have given it a chance. It is the only style I play now and love it and that "old time" music and sound. Good luck and enjoy the learning!
thetexan - Posted - 01/31/2011: 09:03:29
DrG,
All new players practice or are taught to practice rolls. But learning a roll is not the goal in and of itself. It's like learning the ABC,s only in this analogy there is only about 5 or 6 truely different basic rolls.
The sole reason you practice basic rolls is to develope muscle memory and command. What you are working toward, the ultimate goal, is to be able play complex combinations of the basic rolls at will, on the fly. In other words, you learn the basic alphabet in order to be able to create words....you learn words to create sentenses. Asking if there is a place to find different rolls is like asking is there is a place to find different words. Sure there is...the dictionary. But you cant hand a dictionary to a two year old. Rather you teach the youngster his alphabet so that later he can understand and perform all of the 'words' in the dictionary.
The best way to practice more complex rolls is to simply create them yourself and practice them. There is no standard set of these compound rolls. Nor do you need them to learn to be able to play them because that ability is based on your training of the basics. There are some famous rolls that are worth learning but only because of their uniqueness and usefullness in certain songs...such as The Dillard roll and a couple of others.
So once you have the basic rolls perfected, mix them up into any mechanically sound roll pattern then practice that.
You will eventually be able to play any roll pattern your brain can muster instantly and on the fly.
For a good treatment on many uses of various rolls see Janet Davis' Backup Banjo.
tex
Augie - Posted - 01/31/2011: 14:47:35
quote:
Originally posted by drefoss
Well hello everyone I've been hear for a few months now and don't say much but do a lot of reading, to much sometimes it really cuts into my practice time LOL.I think this is a great site and everyone seems so friendly and willing to help which i think is great because if you look at the world there are not a lot of people that would help anyone at anytime, so I guess Banjo players are a different breed.There are great sites passed on here and endless info, it has helped me a lot well i think so anyways. I can struggle through a few songs now pretty well all beginner stuff but I love it. I have a Flinthill that I bought new for $160.00 new I want to upgrade, can you blame me?? LOL, I think I will get The Morgan Monroe Cascade, Thought about the Gold Tone BG250F but from the video clips I listen to I like the sound of the Morgan Monroe Better(if they are not doctored) was ready to buy a Deering Special but now the cascade. what do you guys think?I looked at all the reviews and they seem good, about the only complaint is the tuners, have they improved them?Anyways guys and gals I really enjoy the Beginners Forum and the postings you guys do so keep it going, and there is even a Doctor in the house !!! Some of you have Casades do you still like them?
Mike
fruitbat - Posted - 02/01/2011: 06:30:00
quote:
Originally posted by Tish
I just wanted to welcome Den to BHO....This is a wonderful source for Banjo anything and everything. The best advice I got when I first started playing (Clawhammer) was to just practice the strum hand for hours and days until it became a subconscious movement. It took me awhile to find the style I wanted to play but if while testing Clawhammer I had not done this I wouldn't have given it a chance. It is the only style I play now and love it and that "old time" music and sound. Good luck and enjoy the learning!
Karen Kruske - Posted - 02/03/2011: 16:59:05
I'm just beginning and I'd like to know if my perception is correct. It seems like "teachers" vary on what a backward roll or reverse roll or double thumb roll, etc., is. And it seems like once you start picking out melodies and improvising there no longer is a set-in-stone pattern for rolls. Is this the case? If that is true what is the purpose of learning particular rolls. I'm not trying to be contentious here, I'm curious as to what the goal is to learning the rolls if in fact, a picker ends up "ad-libbing" during songs.
I appreciate any input on this.
Richard Dress - Posted - 02/03/2011: 17:06:25
You have brought up an important point. The goal you are aiming for is to be able to play your note anywhere on the neck at just the right time. Practicing with different rolls (you don't need a lot to get coverage) is a common way to do this. It doesn't mean you play that way, once you learn.
Edited by - Richard Dress on 02/03/2011 17:06:52
minstrelmike - Posted - 02/03/2011: 17:11:02
I'd say happyfingers42 is correct.
The rolls imo are to get you started making rhythm using them. After you learn how to use them to do basic songs, then you start working on just doing songs using either picking patterns or just picking to do the song. It's a gradual transition because you do need some sorts of rhythmic patterns to get started.
That's why I say when you do start with rolls, start with pure rolls-- a right hand pattern that is rhythmic is some way. Do not start with anything that also adds rhythm via the lefthand such as hammers, slides and pulls. Those extra things have to be handled rhythmically and that's why I think it's best to get a solid rhythm going with just chords on songs and experiment with picking different strings and new patterns then at the end, adding hammers and pulls and slides for extra rhythmic emphasis.
Starting with all that at once such as doing Cripple Creek doesn't really set the right hand rhythm up for the beginner the way doing just rolls over chords does.
Get back and forth picking working on familiar songs with just chords and get one roll motion going up-to-speed, either a tim tim ti|m tim tim t|im tim tim... forward with correct rhythm or cut it into 8-note |: tm tim tim :| and then try to fit that to a song. Once you've tried a few songs, you've got more clue about what those fancy arrangements are trying to teach.
Karen Kruske - Posted - 02/03/2011: 18:53:41
Thanks Richard and Mike. Your responses make sense to me and are very helpful.
-Karen
chickenbilljones - Posted - 02/03/2011: 19:56:29
I just want to thank everyone for making this forum such a success. Many beginners have got a lot of help from it and have shared some of their joys and frustrations. I especially want to thank those more seasoned banjo pickers and pro's that have read this forum and given tips to help us out! Thanks-chickenbill
jajajavih - Posted - 02/04/2011: 05:06:05
Hello to all of you guys,
I am from Spain, i've started playing guitar and uke two years ago and I like them. But since I get my banjo this last december i fell in love with it!! It's the instrument that I like the most in the entire world, and I know I´m gonna play it for the rest of my life. No one in Spain use to listen to banjo music as bluegrass.. I feel like an alone player!! If I go this summer to the States I will be so granted to have a jam with some of you!!
Bruce_C - Posted - 02/05/2011: 23:31:21
Hii All!
This seemed as good a place to introduce myself as any. I'm a banjo beginner from the UK. I've been playing guitar and bass for several years and bought a banjo a couple of years ago because I've always been fascinated by the sound. I didn't make a lot of progress to start with but I've decided that 2011 will be the year of the banjo for me! I'm finding the hangout invaluable.
Cheers,
Bruce
drefoss - Posted - 02/16/2011: 13:29:54
Well I took the plunge and ordered a new Gold Tone BG 150F from banjoteacher.com, Ross highly recommended it and everyone seems quite happy with their Gold tones, I am only new but it will still be a big upgrade from my $160.00 Flinthill composite(plastic) banjo, I'm not good now but someday I will be, I hope. Just wondering if anyone else has the BG 150F, I got so tired of looking and looking and for the price I wanted to spend it seemed like the best one.
This is a terrific site.
chickenbilljones - Posted - 02/16/2011: 19:41:47
I have the GT 150R Convertible and I really like it!
chickenbilljones - Posted - 02/22/2011: 19:13:13
One thing about being a newbie is, don't never give up! Take this forum for instance, It was once a hot item on the BHO, but nobody has responded to it in awhile. I could give up and close it down, but what about all those people who got help from it earlier and have talked about how good it was for newbies to express their feelings about playing the banjo. Maybe I should let it rest, but I'll give it another try and see if there are some newbies that would like to congregate here again for awhile?
kb2dhg - Posted - 02/23/2011: 04:56:12
DO NOT GIVE IT UP! I love this site and group. I am a newbe but plan on using this site for the rest of my banjo playing life! I got such a great deal of advice and learned so much!
ddavidv - Posted - 03/20/2011: 05:59:14
I'll add that this thread needs to live on...I just read all 12 pages and amassed a great deal of helpful information. Just purchased a used Austin this week on a whim ("You'll never learn any younger!"). Other than a year of saxophone lessons in junior high school I've never played an instrument. The banjo is daunting, but it's the one instrument I just love the sound of. I figure if other no-talent, middle-age doofus' can learn it, so can I.
If it were not for the internet I probably wouldn't have taken this on. No ready access to teachers in my area but with YouTube and DVDs among other things it just might be possible. Only time, and endless practice, will tell.
Edited by - ddavidv on 03/20/2011 05:59:58
k-dawg - Posted - 03/20/2011: 15:49:25
First, let me say to ddavidv...
...Who are you callin' a no-talent middle aged doofus?!?
Next I would say, I agree entirely, there is no time like the present. I figure that if I don't learn this now, the time may never come around again. It is also an instrument I find very enjoyable to listen to.
There is also a lot of experience on these pages to draw from, and most of the people here are more than willing to share.
That has been my experience in the last month or so on BHO anyway.
Newbies, we have to stick with this if we are going to learn. Nothing worth learning ever comes easy, just keep that in mind, and press on.
Even if you never make a million bucks at it, it will be nice in the futrue to have had the experience, and even tell your grandkids, that you played, or for that matter, that you've been playing the banjo for 50 years.
I learned to fly several years ago, and I had a great time at it.
Health issues forced me to give it up, but I learned how by God, and noone can take away the sense of accomplishment I still feel from the experience.
Live, learn, love the banjo.
Pick on!
Ken
Coonskin - Posted - 03/21/2011: 07:19:49
Well, I've been playing Banjo for a long time, but I'm a brand new Scruggs picker, and I'm pretty daunted. It's like starting all over again. Literally. Even my old-timey three finger or two finger don't really help all that much with these rolls, or the whole chord approach in general.
But, it's a start, and what an exciting thing. Keep at it, everyone!
stymie - Posted - 03/21/2011: 08:03:12
'this thread needs to live on.'
no truer words have been spoken. i don't know about ya'll but i get tired of hearing whose way's the best to learn.
here's to untangling our 4th strings from old international.
b
momaslittleboy - Posted - 03/21/2011: 08:44:53
Well I have been a little discouraged about playing because everyone in my family plays an instrument and are very good…..except me. I have always wanted to play the banjo so just this year my husband got me one. I’m teaching myself because money is not something we have a lot of so I’m even more intimidated. But God is good and is helping me rejuvenate the passion I have always had and bring out the confidence needed. I am SO enjoying my banjo! No I’m not real good yet but hey! That’s part of being a beginner. =) with the help of my Husband/family there are encouraging, listening and enjoying my playing. Even my boss at work wants to jam with me ha ha. So thanks everyone for all your encouraging words as well.
Hannah
caloscalzo - Posted - 03/21/2011: 08:55:55
Hannah
Hang in there. Visit the Hangout once a day to get some encouragement. But play the banjo more than you look for stuff online about playing the banjo. And have fun.
Welcome to the BHO.
Levi Fisher - Posted - 03/21/2011: 12:09:06
This is a great topic.
To update: I'm into my third month and I thank minstrol mike and others for encouragement. I had rented a Goodtime Two but returned it and bought a Goodtime Two Classic
. I've figured out that I really like this banjo thing and intend to stick with it.
I've been struggling alone with my "Banjo's for Dummies" book and have gotten up to "pinch cords" and am having fun every minute.
Today I'm taking my first lesson from a local guy who says he plays in a "bluegrass band" (among other types of bands) He doesn't know clawhammer but I will see what I can learn from him.
At 68 I'm following a boyhood dream and loving the new learning experience. now if I could just get that C cord down!!!!!
Levi
Levi Fisher - Posted - 03/22/2011: 09:10:46
Had my first banjo lesson yesterday.
My teacher is pretty cool and said "I'm surprised at what you have learned in such a short time, on you own." That comment was worth the cost of the lesson alone![]()
He gave me some thumb rolls to work on until next week but more important I feel more confident that I can do this banjo thing.
He showed me the folk tune "It takes a worried man" so I will be looking for some tab on it.
Who says you can't reach an old dog new tricks?????
wb4yal - Posted - 03/22/2011: 11:39:35
Levi,
Congratulations and keep up the good work. We old dogs can do well with some encouragement.
bearfoothillbilly - Posted - 03/23/2011: 15:57:07
Nice topic I hope that with lots of hard work I can some day make it it beginner level. ![]()
caleb150 - Posted - 03/23/2011: 20:41:37
quote:
Originally posted by bearfoothillbilly
Nice topic I hope that with lots of hard work I can some day make it it beginner level.
tassie wombat - Posted - 03/24/2011: 02:41:56
just had my 3rd professional lesson tonight,learning a simple version of cripple creek,i think my left arms about to drop off an my heads about to explode,having a ball though!![]()
Edited by - tassie wombat on 03/24/2011 02:42:53
Magolli - Posted - 03/24/2011: 14:02:18
Well, as a newbie too I want to say that I am very jelous of everybody right now, because you can actually play your banjo!
I am away of home since two weeks and won´t be coming back until 10 days and I just want to play my banjo!
cmtpres - Posted - 03/27/2011: 11:19:21
I'm just a rank beginner with just a bit of experience about 40 years ago. I found this website and forum and am looking forward to becomming a passable picker.
I am recently retired and living in the Loudon, Tennessee area and would love to get together with others to jam a bit and (of course) learn more about this great instrument.
Richard Norman
k-dawg - Posted - 03/27/2011: 13:32:39
Welcome to you, Richard! Keep practicing, and never quit. Have fun, and become passable, or even better.
I said once awhile back that I was working on "perfection", but that has always been a problem for me, when I don't achieve "perfection", I tend to lose interest, and walk away from what ever it was I couldn't perfect.
I've decided this time around, to have fun, and get to be as good as I can.
If "perfection" is in the cards, so be it. If not, well I'm gonna just have fun, and drive my friends and family crazy in the meantime.
Pick on!
Ken
Edited by - k-dawg on 03/27/2011 13:33:25
dunaif - Posted - 03/27/2011: 13:54:26
Thanks much for starting this topic. I'm enjoying hearing about other beginners' experiences.
I'm just finishing my 9th month of banjo playing. I'm mostly teaching myself with the help of videos, books, etc. I had a bit of an advantage in already playing guitar and electric bass (plus 6+ years of violin lessons over 40 years ago...).Got to go to a great workshop Bill Evans gave here in Portland, OR a few months ago and that was helpful and inspiring.
I've been attending a beginning bluegrass jam class taught by Greg Stone and playing with other folks who are at beginning to intermediate level on their instruments. This Saturday morning class has become my "church": met lots of nice folks and am getting valuable ensemble experience.
The biggest challenge is patience while developing technique: I'll be glad when I can play closer to the optimal tempo for each song or tune, but then again, I can look back and see quite a bit of progress since I first picked up a banjo :-)
--Donna
cmtpres - Posted - 03/27/2011: 14:57:03
quote:
Originally posted by k-dawg
Welcome to you, Richard! Keep practicing, and never quit. Have fun, and become passable, or even better.
..........
If "perfection" is in the cards, so be it. If not, well I'm gonna just have fun, and drive my friends and family crazy in the meantime.
Pick on!
Ken
Jazz Country - Posted - 03/27/2011: 16:04:43
Just wanted to say hello to all the other banjo newbies. It's nice to see so many people excited about learning to play this wonderful instrument. The only question I can ask myself is why did I wait so long? Maybe playing guitar for decades had something to do with it. Looking forward to sharing ideas. Kudos to al lthe friendly experience people who are willing to give advice to us newcomers.
Larry
drefoss - Posted - 03/27/2011: 17:16:10
YES if it's not fun I don't think I would ever be able to learn, sometimes I wonder if I ever will anyways.Then I go through a practice and do my cords which still need work but a month or so ago they sounded like nothing at all and I think wow what a difference, the songs I do know how to play, the speed is picking up, I have to get a strap though, so I am not supporting the neck so much with my left hand and a metronome so I can practice on my timing, it doesn't sound bad to me but then again I'm no music expert, I do have a couple of video exercises on timing that I try to follow along with and they seem to help, but it's been about seven months and it's a blast and I also find it helps me to unwind and relax, but I do have to watch the time it goes by so fast when I pick the bamjo up and such as life is there are other things that need to be done LOL.
Mike
kb2dhg - Posted - 03/28/2011: 11:59:44
Sometimes I fell like giving up because I feel like I am never going to learn how to play, BUT then just out of nowhere, I play decent. Like this past weekend, I was playing very good and got the first half of Criple Creek down GREAT! About another 3 or 4 hours and I will have it down good! So what it all comes down to is just keeping at it! I equate it to trying to loose weight, You stay on the diet for months and are loosing weight then for no reason the weight loss stops BUT your still dieting... Then a couple of weeks go by and you are about to go off the diet and BOOM you have dropped 5 pounds! I feel this is the same thing you practice and practice everyday and reach a platoe... THEN just like that you are whealin a tune!
cmtpres - Posted - 03/28/2011: 12:27:57
I guess the message is to just keep plunking away every day and at some point, the better days will begin to outweigh the awful ones. We'll see - I'm still at the "play 15 minutes and let the fingertips rest - the do it again" - stage. As the fingertips get tougher, the practice sessions ought to increase.
Richard
Jazz Country - Posted - 03/28/2011: 13:10:02
quote:
Originally posted by cmtpres
I guess the message is to just keep plunking away every day and at some point, the better days will begin to outweigh the awful ones. We'll see - I'm still at the "play 15 minutes and let the fingertips rest - the do it again" - stage. As the fingertips get tougher, the practice sessions ought to increase.
Richard
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