rspeer - Posted - 12/28/2010:  05:09:35

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I haven't been on the forum for a few days, but wanted to thank GHohwald for that article by Brad Laird on page 5 of this thread. I'd encourage everyone to read it as there's a wealth of info there regarding preparatation for performance, especially the part about making your playing subconscious.

JDW - Posted - 12/28/2010:  07:48:14

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Magoli--sounds good! I just learned that song last night (my one and only song), and if I posted my version, it'd make you look like a pro-Also, I noticed a metronome in the background. Does that help alot? If so, any suggestions?

Magolli - Posted - 12/28/2010:  08:52:35

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quote:

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Originally posted by JDW

Magoli--sounds good! I just learned that song last night (my one and only song), and if I posted my version, it'd make you look like a pro-Also, I noticed a metronome in the background. Does that help alot? If so, any suggestions?

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Hi JDW,

Thanks, I am making my way to be a better player.....hopefully I will arrive someday. For me the metronome is a very good tool because it will be your pace for not slowing or rushing when changing rolls and using the slides, pull off`s, etc. I suggest you do some exercises practicing rolls with the metronome at a slow tempo first (80 BMP) and play. Then record yourself to see if you are playing in time and make adjustments if necessary. Then try to speed up, but not hurry in the process, start from 80 and arrive to a speed comfortable for you. It can (or will) drive you crazy at first but with concentration and dedication you will manage to play in time. After these exercises try to play a tune you know well and see if it sounds better.
Cheers!

JDW - Posted - 12/28/2010:  09:44:37

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Thanks--are any metronomes better that others? Does anyone recomend a certain type or brand?

Magolli - Posted - 12/28/2010:  09:55:39

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quote:

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Originally posted by JDW

Thanks--are any metronomes better that others? Does anyone recomend a certain type or brand?

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Download a free one from internet. Just google....

njwater - Posted - 12/28/2010:  18:14:02

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Love the 'boil them cabbage' tracks ... thanks to GHohwald.

I haven't played with tracks until now... wowzee... makes a big difference (both for good and for bad *LOL*)

chickenbilljones - Posted - 12/29/2010:  21:11:03

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Ok, I downloaded a metronome, now what do I do with it?

Brian T - Posted - 12/29/2010:  21:50:05

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Hi you newbies!
After some years, I have not forgotten where I started.

Metronomes, let it run for a few beats (20?). Tap your foot. Count 1, 2, 3, 4 at maybe 120 bpm. Try to do rolls in time with it. Very sweaty to start with. You have to make it really loud, like you're a back-up player. Over and over again.
I bought a used BOSS DR660 drum machine after several years. Plugs into anybody's stereo. It has p eprogrammed drum tracks that aren't as insane as a metronome.

Some internet stuff does not keep even time. Hard to believe but those better than me claim that many are crap.
I have a ghettoblaster that takes my DR660.
Learn the chord forms up to the 12 fret. Learn the basic chords that go with each music key, maybe 4 or 5.

I've played guitar for 40 years, the note scales up the banjo neck still have me swearing.
Jens Kruger and Bela Fleck know those scales, we all need to know them too.

Just how curious are you about this instrument? That's your appetite.
I practice maybe 2 x 30 minutes per day. I will not wallow in it for an hour+ and hope to get further.

Magolli - Posted - 12/30/2010:  06:06:28

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Some internet stuff does not keep even time. Hard to believe but those better than me claim that many are crap------> totally agree with you, I downloaded one the other day and in some particular measure it completely looses time, makes like a clack or something and ruins the practice session.

I've played guitar for 40 years, the note scales up the banjo neck still have me swearing.
Jens Kruger and Bela Fleck know those scales, we all need to know them too-------> listening to Bela Fleck right now, didn´t know Jens Kruger, I will try to find some music about him.

Magolli - Posted - 12/30/2010:  06:10:56

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quote:

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Originally posted by chickenbilljones

Ok, I downloaded a metronome, now what do I do with it?

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What I did is the following: took a forward roll patern with only open strings and assigned a number (1,2,3,4) below the first of the eight note of each pair of eight notes. Turned on the metronome at a slow tempo 80-90 bmp and mentalized on which finger the 1,2,3 and 4 beats had to be played. Then grabbed the banjo and tried to play that for a minute or so....very difficult at first, I rushed or slowed very much and after 10 minutes or so playing, it suddenly started to fit.
When you feel comfortable try to switch to another roll pattern, but don´t drive crazy.
Then try to play a song that you are familiar with...

Magolli - Posted - 12/30/2010:  06:11:48

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quote:

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Originally posted by chickenbilljones

Ok, I downloaded a metronome, now what do I do with it?

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What I did is the following: took a forward roll patern with only open strings and assigned a number (1,2,3,4) below the first of the eight note of each pair of eight notes. Turned on the metronome at a slow tempo 80-90 bmp and mentalized on which finger the 1,2,3 and 4 beats had to be played. Then grabbed the banjo and tried to play that for a minute or so....very difficult at first, I rushed or slowed very much and after 10 minutes or so playing, it suddenly started to fit.
When you feel comfortable try to switch to another roll pattern, but don´t drive crazy.
Then try to play a song that you are familiar with...

chickenbilljones - Posted - 01/06/2011:  19:26:53

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Welcome to the beginner's forum? Please share your banjo learning experiences here and share any cool links or video's you have.

nealwp - Posted - 01/07/2011:  09:51:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by tex77

Great thread! I also just stared a couple of months ago, and am having a blast. I haven't mastered any actual songs yet, but I keep reminding myself it's the journey not the destination. I feel like I make a little bit of progress every day, so I try to make time to play a little bit every day.

This forum is great, while some of the stuff is waaaay over my head, there's some great info I've found. Discussions about how to plant the picking hand gave me a lot to think about, also the insistence that a metronome should be used (it's true, really helps!).

Anyway, just wanted to post along with the other beginners and say keep it up. Maybe we'll all be famous pickers some day and can make the BHO band!

question: anyone else here play a lefty banjo?

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nealwp - Posted - 01/07/2011:  10:00:01

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I've been playing for about 2 months now and practice for 1 to 2 hours perday at 6 days per week. I'm having alot of fun. I can play Cripple Creek, Worried Man Blues, and a few other songs. I have to slow down from time to time and remember to use a metronome. Timing isa really important if you want to play with others. I have a music teacher. He has started me on dueling banjo's. I'm also just now learning G lick's and some songs that use them. I'm using Mel Bay along with my teacher.

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 01/07/2011:  10:07:30

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quote:

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Originally posted by nealwp

quote:

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Originally posted by tex77

Great thread! I also just stared a couple of months ago, and am having a blast. I haven't mastered any actual songs yet, but I keep reminding myself it's the journey not the destination. I feel like I make a little bit of progress every day, so I try to make time to play a little bit every day.

This forum is great, while some of the stuff is waaaay over my head, there's some great info I've found. Discussions about how to plant the picking hand gave me a lot to think about, also the insistence that a metronome should be used (it's true, really helps!).

Anyway, just wanted to post along with the other beginners and say keep it up. Maybe we'll all be famous pickers some day and can make the BHO band!

question: anyone else here play a lefty banjo?

---

---

Dick Guggenheim is a rim builder banjo builder in Norwich Connecticut and he plays left handed. He is dickinnorwich on the hangout.
Ken

DGEBanjo - Posted - 01/07/2011:  22:11:51

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Hi Folks. This may be the wrong place to post this but as a 4 month or so beginner I have finally decided to go ahead and torture everyone with some posted songs, however I did not have a way to record, so following the advice of the FAQ section I downloaded audacity and got it operating, however I am using the onboard mic to record and it sounds a little muffled, not that it would be a piece of musical mastery anyway LOL, but can anyone recommend an external mic ot type of mic to plug inot my external port that will work better
Thanks for the advice and I know that cabellas has ear plugs real cheap so you are prepared for my audio posts ;-)

picKen - Posted - 01/08/2011:  02:19:33

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Iv'e had my banjo for 15 years but it spent 14 in the closet. I learned "You Are My Sunshine" for my daughter this past summer. Then I found this website and with it loads of info., expertise, and inspiration. Now practice and thinking about practice is what gets me through a workday. Working on John Hardy and Foggy Mountain Breakdown now. Havin a blast!

phb - Posted - 01/08/2011:  02:49:47

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pickervergnugen

but can anyone recommend an external mic ot type of mic to plug inot my external port that will work better

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I use the microphone bit of a headset I have like those you might want to use for skype and such. Sound quality is quite a bit better than from the internal mic but, of course, not really great either. Just listen to my (only) recording to see if this may be an improvement over your recordings. At least it offers the advantage of being able to place the mic much closer to the banjo which generally improves the signal-to-noise ratio.

Bearsfan - Posted - 01/08/2011:  06:10:22

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This guy's videos were very helpful for someone with no banjo knowledge at all. There are five parts and they take you from not knowing how to hold it correctly to playing simple things. He helped me get started.

youtube.com/watch?v=dh4d5dQ2o5..._embedded
youtube.com/watch?v=BuaDw3xUQb..._embedded
youtube.com/watch?v=-1VO74Yr_h..._embedded
youtube.com/watch?v=hXXSPCkqgH..._embedded
youtube.com/watch?v=lu1AC9XsjL..._embedded

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Edited by - Bearsfan on 01/08/2011 06:12:10

Dunkin - Posted - 01/08/2011:  09:20:20

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Hey, that was pretty cool! Watched those posted youtube segments and picked up some great information. Thanks for posting that, I couldn't figure how to put chords and rolls together, now I get it. Thanks again!

DGEBanjo - Posted - 01/08/2011:  11:39:28

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Thanks for all the advice on recording, but I ended up using my laptop mic and this is also my 1st song uploaded, have beed playing for about 4.5 months, hope you enjoy and any comments are strongly urged asndf I apologize to your ears, for those that are above my just startin level

Thanks
Dave

Cumberland Gap

Dunkin - Posted - 01/08/2011:  15:28:59

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Could someone tell me how you play a melody note with a roll? ie. If the roll is with a D7 chord playing strings 3,2, 5,1 and the melody line is playing the second string first fret - well how do you hit the note. Do you substitute the melody note in the roll, pluck both strings? Sorry if I am posting in the wrong place but I figured this is a newbie question.

LandSailor - Posted - 01/10/2011:  11:43:01

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I think the popularity of this thread may be enough to warrant an actual beginner's forum.

This is is only a message thread within a forum. It will very quickly grow to the point where it's unusable (if it hasn't done that already). Once you have to scroll through more than three or four pages of a thread, it's too difficult to find info that may have already been posted.

I no longer use the AVSforum (audio visual science, home theatre forum) because threads with 200 pages are pointless. :)

A dedicated forum would encourage asking the "dumb" questions that some folks may be too intimidated to post in a forum where people are analyzing if Earl intentionally recorded at A=442 to compensate for the studio equipment.


I'm going to post this in the Suggestions forum since the response morphed into one more appropriate for that.

spinley - Posted - 01/10/2011:  15:00:30

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I have had fun reading this topic. This is what BHO is all about. Nice to see all the new players talking about their experience without one cross word spoken.
Stuart

JoeDownes - Posted - 01/10/2011:  15:25:48

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dunkin

Could someone tell me how you play a melody note with a roll? ie. If the roll is with a D7 chord playing strings 3,2, 5,1 and the melody line is playing the second string first fret - well how do you hit the note. Do you substitute the melody note in the roll, pluck both strings? Sorry if I am posting in the wrong place but I figured this is a newbie question.

---

If understand you right you want to start the measure (roll) with the C note (2nd string first fret). You could play the the strings in a different succession, like 2151 for example, or you could play a different D7 chord, that includes the C note at the 3rd string 5th fret.

2 different D7 chords with C on the 3rd string:

--4--7--
--3--7--
--5--5--
--x--x--
--x--x--

It's probably easier to change your roll pattern than to change your chords. But it's good to know that you can find the same notes on different strings and to make use of that sometimes.

reenie33 - Posted - 01/10/2011:  19:44:47

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Hi all. My first post here. Just picked up my first banjo a few weeks ago and I'm working my way through the Hal Leonard bluegrass book. I'd welcome suggestions on other books/videos that would be good to check out...

My current project is getting Cripple Creek down and learning my chords well. I feel like it's coming easier to me than I thought, which doesn't at all mean I'm any good yet. :)

Anybody from Milwaukee or know of any good teachers here? I have a pretty strong music background, but no stringed instrument experience so lessons are definitely in order.

So glad to find this site!

reenie33 - Posted - 01/10/2011:  19:51:31

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One more thing...

ideas for a good website where i can find scales? sounds like i need to get those down too...

great idea for the metronome - i'm a piano player and never thought to break mine out. that will help a lot i think.

tassie wombat - Posted - 01/12/2011:  03:41:14

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just learning my first tune "john henry" have benn learning it on "music moose" with david cavage.great web site to learn on,he goes through every thing step by step,would be a great teacher in person i think. ordered a tuner off ebay,came today,its a stark,very easy to use,had planned on practicing tonight but the first string i tuned went twang!! bugger,off to the misic shop after work tommorow to buy some more!

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Edited by - tassie wombat on 01/12/2011 16:14:54

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 01/13/2011:  02:15:19

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Hi Guy's

LOTW Poll

Incase it had escaped your notice (Banjophobic) John Boulding author of our great "Lick of the Week" video lessons is seeking suggestions for the next session. John started these video presentations two and a half years ago to help and encourage beginners.

So if you would like to help John to help you click on this link


banjohangout.org/topic/196495

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Edited by - Tam_Zeb on 01/13/2011 02:18:26

dirtygeorge - Posted - 01/13/2011:  09:00:36

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Ok after a very long time of putting this off because I didn't think I could really do it, I've started practicing. I'm on My second week of just doing roll patterns and am now trying to figure out cords. Kicking My butt is an understatement. My left hand i.e. fingers don't want to find strings and if they do they don't want to hold them down correctly. As in they are touching other strings.. plink twang... bla bla makes for a lot of frustration. Any advise? Thanks for the forum. It's a great place to learn and get ideas.

Levi Fisher - Posted - 01/13/2011:  13:23:43

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OK guys and girls, looks like I found a home.
I'm an old retired guy who always loved Banjo but never had time to get into it. I don't read music and think Tab is the greatest. My lovely wife, of 45 years, bought me' Banjo's for Dummies" for Christmas, 3 days later I decided to rent a Banjo for at least 6 months and give it a whirl.
This is really fun!!!!

Reading all of your comments gives me encouragement to stick to it......same problems going from G to C cords etc. My plan is to try to get smooth with the cords C and D7 then look for a teacher.

My music experience is very limited, memorized some piano tunes to play back in the 1950's and made half of an attempt to play a guitar about 15 years ago, but when I was a "kid" people in my family would get together and jam with guitars, sometimes a banjo or fiddle and sing "hillybilly" music. All played by ear and were mostly self taught. While I didn't inherit the "play by ear" gene I still have those tunes in my head and realize these tunes are now called" Blue Grass"..........how cool is that?

So I'm happy to be here and thanks for having me..................................Levi

minstrelmike - Posted - 01/13/2011:  14:42:06

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In addition to looking for a teacher, the best thing you can do right now is to practice those chord changes on real songs that you already know how they go.

You've heard the song If You're Happy and You Know It Clap Your Hands.

Find the chords to that song and try strumming it like a basic guitarist would. It checks your chords and you need to get the timing of chord changes and right hand strokes before anything else works.

The best thing about doing songs that are already familiar (not necessarily fancy banjo things) is that you know when you've got it right and the bar isn't set too high.

Try chording some of the songs on this page: moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/songs/index.html

Borrow songbooks from the library and friends. Anything that has the chords written above the music is all you need. Hits of the 60s, Elvis, The Beatles, Campfire Tunes. Play the chords and see which ones sort of work just using the basic chords.

The picking or frailing will follow a lot more naturally if you can already comfortably strum 10 or 20 familiar songs.

welder - Posted - 01/13/2011:  15:08:37

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Hello , This is my first time on the forum. I'm glad to read that I'm not the only one who is finding out that it's going to take me some time to play well. I started out with a guitar that my sons gave to me for Chirsmas 2 years ago. I have some freinds at work with a band and they talked me into playing with them and thats all it took. I have an old SS Stewart banjo that belonged to my Grandpa. My wiife had it restored for me as a suprise. So I wanted to learn how to play it.

I bought a Washburn B-9 to take to pratice. That's where I learned that it helped me to play with the band. They helped me with cord changes and keeping the right tempo.

Hello again.

dirtygeorge - Posted - 01/14/2011:  07:12:02

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Hello Welder, Welcome aboard. This place seems great. Lots of information and lots of people to draw experience from. Send a msg any time if you'd like to talk I'm in the same boat.

stillearning - Posted - 01/15/2011:  07:41:06

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Maybe this could be made a stickey.
Dave

Dunkin - Posted - 01/15/2011:  15:03:29

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Hey DirtyGeorge, in response to your earlier question regarding how your finger kinda hit the next string and how to get a clearer note....I have found the same problem myself, I found it happened alot when I was not holding the banjo NOT like a banjo- I got lax and was holding it like a guitar-holding the next up higher helped my fingers find the individual strings easier. Also, the exercises found here at BHO really loosened my grip around the neck so that I learned to hold the neck by laying it along my right thumb rather than actually gripping the neck between forefinger and thumb....time, and lots of practice helps too!

dirtygeorge - Posted - 01/15/2011:  17:51:25

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thanks Dunkin, Had a much better day at practice today. found a mertornome.. sp.. Tick tock thing which was fun to practice with and still working on the Cabbage song in Janet Davis's book. Thanks again for the tip. HAhaha I had to laugh at Myselc today when I got done an hung the banjo up looked at the head and can start to see evidence of wear on the head.. hahah thought to myself.. there it's gettin salty..!! It's a Jarhead thing.

Ziggy - Posted - 01/18/2011:  01:49:53

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I had my first lesson last night. Its been 35 yrs since I last picked up a banjo........ and it shows. Back to square one, learnin rolls and chords.

Beards and Banjos - Posted - 01/18/2011:  03:53:40

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A couple of notes now I am a couple of months in.
A metronome has been a godsend in getting me to hit the patterns right.
The Earl Scruggs Book is possibly not the best one for the absolute beginner as the tunes are a little hard, still an essential read and one for the intermediates.
The Ultimate Banjo songbook is an excellent resource as a beginner, tracks broken down into several levels of experience with extras to allow you to develop.
Check out Rob Bourassa's Foggy Mountain lessons, links are in the beginners sticky. These will bring you along comfortably and make you think you are making progress which should help your confidence.

I have found that sitting down I have to take my wallet out of my pocket to play as otherwise it makes the banjo sit wrong, however my wallet is the perfect size to wedge between the dowel stick and the head thus forming a perfect mute! I just have to remember not to leave it there afterwards.

Last night after about an hour of non descript practising suddenly I hit Foggy Mountain Breakdown at what must have been about 300bpm! Much faster than I have been able to play before.

This sounded so good and came absolutely out of nowhere, the surprise made me stop at the end of the first run through and I was totally unable to get playing again at all afterwards! Any one else ever suffered something like this?

Keith Madison - Posted - 01/18/2011:  06:40:46

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i've started with the beg Carlin video that came with the OTCC banjo & I'm pleasantly surprised that I have 2/3 of the ( Old Joe Clark) song down, not up to speed mind you, also trying to figure out which finger to use index/middle.

Keith Madison - Posted - 01/18/2011:  06:42:01

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i've started with the beg Carlin video that came with the OTCC banjo & I'm pleasantly surprised that I have 2/3 of the ( Old Joe Clark) song down, not up to speed mind you, also trying to figure out which finger to use index/middle.

Keith Madison - Posted - 01/18/2011:  06:42:58

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i've started with the beg Carlin video that came with the OTCC banjo & I'm pleasantly surprised that I have 2/3 of the ( Old Joe Clark) song down, not up to speed mind you, also trying to figure out which finger to use index/middle.

newbie plucker - Posted - 01/18/2011:  21:29:23

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I'd just like to add that I'm seriously hooked. If I'm not practising I'm reading this forum. I'm off to the Tamworth Country Music Festival on Friday, this puts a whole new slant on the event.

Tonyfr - Posted - 01/19/2011:  06:03:06

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Great thread! I bought my banjo a couple weekends ago. I play guitar and other instruments before. I am have been practicing rolls but having picks on my fingers feels weird still. I also keep accidently playing the C chord like a G chord on the guitar. I have been having fun so far. I will need to look into the Murphy Method.

Tony

Maven - Posted - 01/19/2011:  08:27:58

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First post on BHO.

I just bought an unmarked SS Stewart Banjeaurine (my first instrument) and am excited that I took this first step. I love the way banjos and fiddles sound. The reason I finally picked up an instrument (at age 36) is I have a family with 3 young children. I decided that I want to be an example to them by playing and enjoying music (something I wasn't exposed to as a child). This is also my first message board experience, so if I'm doing it wrong let me know. My Banjeaurine hasn't been played in the last 50 years, I tried tuning it and the old strings started to snap, so I did some research here and am waiting for my new Aquila Classical Nylgut strings (thank you for the archives and whom ever made the original post) to get here.

I have two questions:

1) Should I pay $25 to have someone to put my strings on, or do it myself (I have good tuner)?

2) What books, videos, web site......ect. should I use as a green player (I cant afford ongoing lessons as of right now)?

Thank you all

minstrelmike - Posted - 01/19/2011:  08:50:29

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Put the strings on yourself. it's easy.
----------------------------
As far as what you start with, I think both frailing/clawhammer/Old-time and bluegrass-3-finger picking are too advanced to start unless you already play guitar or mandolin in which case I would say chord thru -every- song you already know on those instruments.

Get a chord chart and strum your way thru songbooks like a first-day guitarist, only doing songs you are already familiar with. Get children's songbooks, hymnals, patriotic songs, bands that you listened to in high school. It's a lot easier to start with familiar songs than to have to learn new songs while learning banjo. (Put at least a week or month into this before starting on 'real banjo stuff').

Try songs off of here: moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/songs/index.html

If you want to learn finger-picking, I would also suggest simultaneously working on the forward roll tm tim tim until you get it up-to-speed. What will happen is that you will figure out the square roll because you'll have some songs that you can actually chord to and will just try picking on them at some point and will discover easily things that take people who start on particulars months to figure out.

If you want to learn frailing, I would suggest waiting until you get the basic strum working on 10 or 20 songs. Down-DownUp strumming is the basic guitar-style strumming and is also the sound/rhythm you'll want via frailing.

Best book is Pete Seeger's How to Play the 5-String Banjo.

reenie33 - Posted - 01/19/2011:  09:02:12

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hi all. i'm taking the advice of people on here about getting my chords down by playing simple songs. i found a website that has 1000s of songs with lyrics and guitar chords (rock, alternative, country EVERYTHING) and if you pick a song and look on the right side, you can tune it to a 5 string banjo and even transpose it to a key with simpler chords. it's been so much more fun for me than playing songs i find in intro books and it keeps me interested. thought you might be interested too.

chordie.com

From Greylock to Bean Blossom - Posted - 01/19/2011:  09:04:45

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Maven

First post on BHO.

I just bought an unmarked SS Stewart Banjeaurine (my first instrument) and am excited that I took this first step. I love the way banjos and fiddles sound. The reason I finally picked up an instrument (at age 36) is I have a family with 3 young children. I decided that I want to be an example to them by playing and enjoying music (something I wasn't exposed to as a child). This is also my first message board experience, so if I'm doing it wrong let me know. My Banjeaurine hasn't been played in the last 50 years, I tried tuning it and the old strings started to snap, so I did some research here and am waiting for my new Aquila Classical Nylgut strings (thank you for the archives and whom ever made the original post) to get here.

I have two questions:

1) Should I pay $25 to have someone to put my strings on, or do it myself (I have good tuner)?

2) What books, videos, web site......ect. should I use as a green player (I cant afford ongoing lessons as of right now)?

Thank you all

---

Google How to put strings on a banjo and you will find a site that shows you how to wrap them and get them to hold. Be sure you don't take off all your old strings at once or you can loose the spot where your bridge should be. take off on and put its replacement on. One by one.
in starting to play I would start with either Jack Hatfield or Pete Wernick stuff or both. Look at their web sites and call them or e-mail them with questions about how each of their systems works.
Ken

cdnbanjo - Posted - 01/19/2011:  12:01:34

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Like others, I just recently started. Borrowed a Goodtime Maple Mountain from a buddy and been working my way through rolls, chord changes, picking and such. Having fun but still I'm struggling. My left hand fingers hurt from the strings so until I get some callouses, I'm good for about an hour a day. I'm finding Cripple Creek to be fairly difficult which tells me I should just continue to work on rolls, chords, and some fighting with Boil Dem Cabbage and such. Does anyone find that for the about the first 10 minutes, it's like my hands are not paying attention? When can I feel like I'm actually playing the banjo instead of sounding like a dork?