chip withrow - Posted - 06/04/2011:  08:54:18

I looked into the recording device Tex mentioned a few posts ago, and I got the go-ahead to get one. Had to ask my wife first, since I just dropped a couple hundred bucks on a used acoustic guitar-and-practice amp package.

I have some good recording software from Acoustica, but keeping all the gear set up is a bit unwieldy. And when I practice guitar or banjo, I'm often coming up with nifty licks that I then go and forget. So the Sony device (thanks for the link, Tex!) will come in handy, especially since I have recently landscaped two shady pickin' spots in the backyard.

I've had my banjo almost three years now and even performed with it a few times, but I still consider myself a beginner. Maybe because I've been playing guitar and piano for over 30 years, so 3 years just doesn't seem that long. And   AndI am a beginner here at the Hangout, with just a few posts so far.

thetexan - Posted - 06/04/2011:  08:59:06

By the way, I take that recorder with me to jams and have it recording much of the time.  That lets me bring the favorite jam songs home to practice on so that when I go back Im familiar with them and have something fresh to offer.  You will find that about 80% of songs at jams are favorites and get repeated each month.

tex

minstrelmike - Posted - 06/04/2011:  11:55:48

TAB is not limiting.

Pianaists and jazz musicians play from sheet music (which is essentially tab for piano).

Some people can really make the songs come alive and some can't. I can see that with pianists reading sheet music or with banjoists playing from tab or playing from teacher-provided memorization (what some people call learning by ear when it is really copying by ear).

Copying is what you do first. Playing is what you do second (if you follow the method books. If you do my way of stumming from songbooks, you get those in the opposite order).



Making the jump from copying to playing requires something additional from the player.

Blaming the way you memorized stuff is not going to help. (For every person you point out who can't play well from tab, I can get you Murphy method dropouts that also can't 'play.')

Turning all that stuff you learn from tab or ear or dvd into a song requires first and foremost that _YOU_ know what the song is supposed to sound like. Not the arrangement you're copying--the song itself. That's why most of the methods tell you to get out and jam because that's where the learning of Music comes from unless you start by learning already familiar songs (which probably aren't banjo tunes).

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/05/2011:  02:39:34

I spent some time with Janet Davis's tutorials yesterday. I found it all fine, particularly when I finally got my strap on the right way so it feels comfortable and the banjo sits well. However I am having a bit of a hard time wearing the picks and keeping my right hand stable on the drum head. I keep hitting the drum head with my middle finger and sometimes with the thumb pick too.

Should I persevere with the picks or lose them and then try them at some future point? I can hear the fuller tone with the picks which I of course like when I practise the forward roll for example but my hand relaxes more without them.

If I stop wearing picks for these early days, will I just go back to square one if I pick them up again some point in the future?

Any advice as always gratefully received!

Tehmina

teabag48 - Posted - 06/05/2011:  03:37:06

Hi Tehmina,

I am the same, i started with the picks then found i could go faster without them, fingers got sore and cracked so used picks again, now finding I'm hitting the drum and fingers in the wrong place, however most of the books say if you want to play bluegrass then the sound is from the picks too as it gives a clearer sound. My hubby also prefers it if i use the picks he says it sounds better.

however i find they hurt, pinch, slip. I've used plastic ones- prefer metals ones even on the thumb - I guess its all about getting used to it. I too am on Janet Davis books now, love the melodic versions she puts in.

I'm getting used to and perfecting slides,  pull offs and hammer ons, and the licks. with and without picks!

How are you doing now?

Helen uk

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/05/2011:  03:48:39

Hi Helen,

Great to hear from another UK (female!) banjo learner! I've been doing some research since I posted that and the people over at folk of the wood suggested trying softer brass picks 0.018. Also my thumb pick ended up working its way off and I have since found they do come in different sizes (I have small hands) so I might try finding a small one. I'm just using the ones that came with my banjo (Goodtime Crow) which are two metal dunlop finger picks and a plastic thumb pick, no idea the size but assume they are medium or large.

I've decided to keep concentrating on chords and chord changes and strum with my thumb and then when I move on to perfecting the rolls try finding some better picks. Will post again if I find a better set for me. I guess it is all so personal what works and what doesn't. 

Here's the link to some 5-string banjo tips which I found useful:

folkofthewood.com/page3015.htm

Tehmina

Edited by - courgettelawn on 06/05/2011 03:49:05

Jazz Country - Posted - 06/05/2011:  04:33:12

Tehmina and Helen - Finger picks can feel quite awkward at first, particularly if one has finger picked another instrument for years, as  I had. The key is perseverance! This takes time, so it's perfectly normal for you to be experiencing difficulty at first. I had the same issues that you describe when I started a few months ago. I won't say they're completely fixed but I've made a lot of progress. You're doing the right thing by experimenting with different picks. Keep at it until you find what works for you. Remember though, that what seems uncomfortable today can wear in and be fine later on. I tried brass ones for the first time yesterday. They produce a much softer tone, but I wasn't able to get much volume out of them. Maybe I just need to put more muscle into it. The more experienced players will be more articulate and helpful about the subject, but from one beginner to a couple of others, I say do not give up on the picks. 

I too had trouble keeping my fingers anchored on the head. I simply concentrated while playing SLOWLY and little by little it has become almost natural for them to be planted securely.  I would literally hold the fingers down, strike one note, and keep them down while reaching for the next one. 

My 2 cents from a fellow newbie

Larry

Ozarkwoods - Posted - 06/05/2011:  05:26:23

Tehmina and Helen,

Like Larry said it takes time and practice.  I experimented with my picks bought a lot of different brands styles.  I heated the the plastic picks up in boiling water bent them to a different angle.  cut the thumb wrap down because it was getting caught on the string once in awhile.  I did this for months until I found the right combinations. 

I also found that part of my problem was the attack angle of my right hand.  I found that my hand was straight and in line with my forearm instead of slightly bent.  Picture a tennis ball or even put one there between your wrist and the head of the banjo to have an idea of what it will do.  Your fingers are now hitting the strings at a different angle.  Slow repetitive motion while watching will train your fingers not to go  crazy or wild when you pick up speed.  It has improved my head hitting both on my banjo and my head against the wall with frustration....LOL

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/05/2011:  08:32:10

Hi both,

That's good advice. Trying all sorts. I have seen that Eagle Music sells these:

Perfect touch picks (flat face and round face, nickel silver and brass):

eaglemusicshop.com/details1.as...brass.htm

and adjustable thumb pick:

eaglemusicshop.com/details1.as...-Pick.htm

The perfect touch ones are one of the few that seem genuinely to come in a small size. Although heaven knows whether the flat face or round face will feel better ! I wish I lived nearer the store!

Tehmina

justdrawinglines - Posted - 06/05/2011:  10:31:02

I found "mini" picks at Janet Davis.  janetdavismusic.com/mini_picks.html   I imagine you can get the same ones at Eagle or over the net somewhere.

I get the .0225 single band picks, and use a needle nose to bend/adjust where I need to (I like then more curved at my fingertip, and bend the band out slightly at my knuckle).  

Edited by - justdrawinglines on 06/05/2011 10:39:11

harpman54 - Posted - 06/05/2011:  11:20:37

Wow! LOTS of great information here. I'm primarily a blues harmonica player, dabble with blues guitar. I had a banjo for several years back in the early 70's, traded it a few years ago for a costly harmonica. Love that harmonica, but always regretted trading the banjo for it. Well, jump to last week....and I found a brand new Dean BW7 banjo (not made anymore) at less than dealer cost and bought it. Surprisingly, or perhaps because I play a little guitar, the finger rolls were like riding a bicycle. Yeah, after doing the same roll 15 times in succession I'll drop the pattern or cadence and have to regroup, but I'm surprised the fingers still work. Thankfully, my hands aren't sore and my fretting fingers already have callouses so that's a plus. And I even recall the chords from way back when. Beyond that, I'm still a total newbie though. Can't play any 'real' songs other than Yankee Doodle so far, but at least I'm getting the drone notes dropped into the melody lines, haven't had enough time to throw rolls in there yet either but that will come.

I do have this problem though...the pick (primarily the thumb) will sometimes tap the banjo head as I'm picking those rhythmic rolls endlessly. Is it a technique problem I can solve early with some help from one of our learned members? I want to fix this before it becomes a nasty habit I'll have to break later.

bill

justdrawinglines - Posted - 06/05/2011:  11:37:44

I did that with my thumb a lot in the very beginning but have found that it has pretty much gone away as I've gotten better.  I have heard that some people file down their thumb picks with an emery board to make it a little shorter... I also think that hitting the head (and I don't mean the bathroom) occasionally is normal - just look at the marks on the heads of some of the pros.  You can see the marks.

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/05/2011:  15:21:26

Thanks for the recommendation of the Janet Davis site--the review of picks there was really helpful and thankfully for us in the UK (especially those not near a decent supplier of banjoware) Eagle Music sold a great variety. I took the opportunity to buy a selection to try out against the ones I have (Dunlop nickel silver .025s). I went for a pair of ProPiks "for women and children" in brass, split band as I felt they seemed most adjustable, and another pair of Dunlops but at the lightest gauge of .013. I also grabbed a couple of thumb picks in 'small' size, one ProPik (adjustable) and another standard Dunlop. Look forward to practising with all these to see what difference it makes.

For those other UK-based beginners, here is Eagle's page of finger picks and the postage is inexpensive at £1.49:

eaglemusicshop.com/products.as...picks.htm

quote

:

---

Originally posted by justdrawinglines

I found "mini" picks at Janet Davis.  janetdavismusic.com/mini_picks.html   I imagine you can get the same ones at Eagle or over the net somewhere.

I get the .0225 single band picks, and use a needle nose to bend/adjust where I need to (I like then more curved at my fingertip, and bend the band out slightly at my knuckle).  

---

Edited by - courgettelawn on 06/05/2011 15:22:53

Ken_in_IN - Posted - 06/06/2011:  04:16:08

I tried a number of picks and finally settled on split wrap ProPiks.   I found the picks with one single band were hard to adjust and never felt comfortable.  The split wraps on the Propiks are much easier to adjust to my fingers and have a lighter, yet firm grip for me.

Treetopper - Posted - 06/06/2011:  10:15:31

Semi-newbie here:  I am 72 years old and just re-started playing the banjo.  I started on classical guitar, (not very good), then mandolin (a little better), arthritis raised its ugly head and I had to stop mandolin.  I bought a nice banjo and am starting to play, (it helps the arthritis)  I have set a spare bedroom aside for just music playing. 

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/06/2011:  10:21:16

I'll be interested to see what they are like when they arrive. It seemed to me as you said that the split wraps were better to adjust. I'm now actively looking forward to wearing picks, which is a great leap forward from the weekend! Thanks all!

Banjo94 - Posted - 06/07/2011:  04:48:48

is it possiable for someone to learn banjo from just books and on the web?And learn to play good?Thanks

justdrawinglines - Posted - 06/07/2011:  05:44:47

Banjo94, I tried for almost 2 years to learn on my own and have a stack a mile high of books, cds, etc. To prove it. What I didn't have was the ability to play my banjo. Sure, I could do some rolls but none of it really made sense. I was totally frustrated and the motivation was in the toilet. Until I found a teacher. Even after just one lesson, I felt I learned more in that hour than in over a year of trying on my own. I meet with my teacher every 2-3 weeks. Best thing I've done in a long time.

JoeDownes - Posted - 06/07/2011:  11:21:44

I've been learning without a teacher and I'm doing just fine, but I had guitar lessons when I was a teenager, so I had a good idea of how to approach it. BHO was very helpful in the process, as were David Cavages free banjo videos and Pete Wernick's jam dvd.

If you never played a string instrument before I'd still advice you to seek a teacher, and seek a good one.

minstrelmike - Posted - 06/07/2011:  12:16:56

I learned on my own. Wasted a bunch of time trying to learn specific fingering technique from banjo manuals.

Eventually, a truck driver showed me how I could play any song in the world just strumming and using a chord chart.

That got _music_ working at a basic level for me. Then I'd pick and frail over those songs and get them working good enough to play at parties. After about a year of that, all the junque in the banjo manuals made a lot more sense.

It is easy to learn banjo all by yourself. I think it is very difficult to learn Bluegrass Banjo or Old-Time Banjo by yourself if you cannot already do regular banjo or regular guitar--you know, strumming Down in the Valley or Tom Dooley.

If you really want to learn by yourself, close the banjo instructional stuff and for a month or so, work your way thru every songbook you can find just doing the chords. ANY GENRE EXCEPT BLUEGRASS OR OLD-TIME. Play at least 100 different songs and get at least 3 or 5 of them working so they sound like songs.



Then look at the banjo manual. If you've already tried banjo instruction, then after you've played the chords to at least 100 songs, get out the fingerpicks or try frailing without any fancy lefthand stuff such as slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs, or even melody notes, and see what falls into your lap.

J.D. Crowe already played guitar before he tried learning banjo just from Earl's breaks.

Earl played simple songs in simple styles before he figured out the complications of rolls.

Earl did NOT start with FMB. That's essentially where he ended.

Start at the beginning and you can do it by yourself. (Start with songs you can already hum or recognize).

Start anywhere else and you'd better have a good guide and lots of patience.

Edited by - minstrelmike on 06/07/2011 12:18:13

1968Firebird - Posted - 06/07/2011:  14:48:29

Hello 1st post by me  I have been playing guitar for 30 years and have just started learning banjo. I absolutely love it and should of done it years ago 

i am about a month in and have got to the point where i can improvise a little which is very satisfying 

i have been using the wayne erbsen book which is a superb tutor aid and how music should be taught imo i do about 30-40 mins a day

5 mins warm up just going throughrolls

10 mins playing learnt tunes

10 mins plaing the same tunes and adding or mixing stuff up changing rolls around and adding complexity

10 mins learning new tunes

xx mins just going for it and playing just for fun 

Dave_SC - Posted - 06/07/2011:  15:05:39

quote:

---

Originally posted by minstrelmike

If you really want to learn by yourself, close the banjo instructional stuff and for a month or so, work your way thru every songbook you can find just doing the chords. ANY GENRE EXCEPT BLUEGRASS OR OLD-TIME. Play at least 100 different songs and get at least 3 or 5 of them working so they sound like songs.



Then look at the banjo manual. If you've already tried banjo instruction, then after you've played the chords to at least 100 songs, get out the fingerpicks or try frailing without any fancy lefthand stuff such as slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs, or even melody notes, and see what falls into your lap.

Start at the beginning and you can do it by yourself. (Start with songs you can already hum or recognize).

Start anywhere else and you'd better have a good guide and lots of patience.

---

This is an interesting suggestion MinsrtelMike.  Essentially you are saying "memorize all the chords" first... so that you can do the left hand finger placement for any chord you need, and the strum with the right hand.  Once you have all the chords  (left hand placement) memorized, then the next step is to move onto the more complicated left and right hand techniques.   Everyone is a little different and may have more natural talent in some areas than others.  For myself, I think I grasped reading TABs right away... I get it, and I can play anything from TABs given that I play very slowly at first and work up speed.   However I am lacking in the ability to hear and recognize the correct pitch of notes (chords) such as C-D-G-A-Cc-Bb-etc in a song from measure to measure.  I can recognize higher and lower pitch with no problem, but I just cant recognize it exactly without a good amount of trial and error.  I imagine this is hard for most people at first... So without TABs to indicate the correct pitch of the note (ABCEDEF) I would have to go through the song measure for measure and walk up and down the strings and frets to find the right note/chord.  Then move to the next measure.  The suggestion for singing the tune helps... but still leaves a beginner ear to foul up.  I like having the TAB as a reference to check whether I got the right note.  I think working towards not using TABs is a very useful skill...  but I don't really see a problem with using TABs as a reference to keep you on track.  Where am I going wrong here?  Thanks.

kshusker - Posted - 06/08/2011:  05:10:10

Hi all. 

I can't believe I didn't see this thread when I first got on here.  I've gone through this and found that other beginners are having the same struggles as me such as chord changes and getting the rolls and other right hand techniques right every time. I can do it about 50% of the time which is better than 2 months ago when I first started as I couldn't hardly do it at all. I've been going through Wayne Erbsen's book and it has been a great help along with another book that came with my banjo.  I can play Bile Em Cabbage Down pretty decent and am also working on Blackberry Blossom.  I've been having fun with it and am way more comfortable playing banjo than I ever was playing guitar.  One of these days I'll jump in and jam with other people but I'm gonna get my chord changes down alot better first.  I may even take some lessons in the future but for now I think I'm progressing pretty decent so I'm not in a hurry. 

Dave

stymie - Posted - 06/08/2011:  06:25:21

being a beginner for the second time around, it's been interesting how things have changed for me over the last twenty or so years.  the first time at this my teacher started with the right hand exclusively.  forward, backward, reverse, alternating thumb rolls plus variations.  then it was adding slides and pulls and some bends.  then songs by tab.  my teacher taught chords as they came within the tabs, and after three years i could pick thirty or so tunes, about ten or so of those really well.

this time, i started with rolls this january past.  or at least i 'thought' i started with rolls.  you see, i practiced rolls so much when i began before, they were absolutely automatic.  as i recall, i never had to think which of the three fingers needed to make that note.  it was auto pilot.  this time, even though rolls came first, i went too quickly to songs, relearning the tunes i had memorized prior.  i know six or seven tunes now, but just a month ago it was apparent to me that the right hand was entirely too sloppy.  so, for the last several weeks, no tunes.  it's an hour a night on rolls, trying to play chord inversions up the neck, and running the g scale starting in three different places.  the right hand is still a bit unruly but i'm beginning to rein it in.  there are absolutely no shortcuts to this.

now, there's the issue of my beater, but that really doesn't matter for this thread.  it's another story entirely.

b(eginner ii) 

Peanutscreams - Posted - 06/08/2011:  06:28:22

Welcome Firebird, sure the 30 years guitar playing will be a huge help to you. I'm also about a month into this and still excited although not progressing nearly as much as I thought I would have been by now.

Working so hard at trying not to mute the first string while performing a 2-3 hammer on at the beginning of FMB. And that's such a shame because I have the rest of the song down pretty well and that 2-3 at the beginning and end is the most important.

Any advice from any other beginners out there would be so appreciated, I've tried the tennis ball idea and banjo tilt but still it happens, so discouraged.

Have a little doggie that's bout a year old and he started howling at my playing yesterday for the first time: so I'm either doing something right, or something terribly wrong!

Butch B.

Edited by - Peanutscreams on 06/08/2011 06:29:13

minstrelmike - Posted - 06/08/2011:  06:40:30

If the hammer-on is giving you issues, don't do  it.

Just fret the 3rd fret and be done with it.

I know some folks think it's a matter of doing it 'right' versus doing it 'wrong' but I see it as a matter of doing the song or not doing it at all.

Frankly, before you try slides and hammers, just get everything working without slides and hammers (lefthand rhythmic devices which make it harder to keep the rhythm in your right hand).

Once you can play the note clearly without hammering, then try hammering.

Peanutscreams - Posted - 06/08/2011:  06:55:29

Thanks so much minstrelmike, I've briefly tried that a few times and it does work. There's so much advice and warning in here about "Perfect Practice" makes perfect play that I was scared to try completing the song with out the hammer-on, thanks for clearing that up, such a relief to get the "green light" all clear to go from a pro. Going to be a fun day for me now!

Butch B.

minstrelmike - Posted - 06/08/2011:  08:40:31

You're welcome but I'm not a pro.

Try the hammer-on again in about a month.

thetexan - Posted - 06/08/2011:  08:56:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peanutscreams

...There's so much advice and warning in here about "Perfect Practice" makes perfect play that I was scared to try completing the song with out the hammer-on...Butch B.

---

 Butch,

There are two points you need to understand about the 'perfect practice' principle.

1.  Yes, whatever you do as you practice, whether good or bad, is being 'recorded' by your brain.  The more you reinforce something the more implanted that recording is and the more difficult it is to change it, whether good or bad.  Therefore it behooves everyone to 'record' and reinforce the correct action as opposed to 'recording' and reinforcing the bad or improper or 'imperfect' action.

2.  Perfect practice is nearly impossible to achieve.  You will make mistakes.  We all do.  And you will make continual mistakes.  It cant be helped.  What you need to be aware of is that the principle exists, it is a fact, and as such needs to be respected in your practice.  In other words, as you practice, identify and correct error as soon as you can knowing that the longer you put off correction the more you are reinforcing the error and the harder it will be to correct later. 

But dont be afraid of experimentation or working out hard parts.  It takes a while to pour concrete around your bad habit, so there is no need to be too concerned about bad reinforcement over short periods of time.  Just be aware that it IS taking place little by little and thus strive to not create bad HABIT by the continued practice of it.  Always practice as perfectly as POSSIBLE in order to create perfect habit.

tex

Edited by - thetexan on 06/08/2011 08:57:52

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/08/2011:  10:34:21

If any other beginners are interested in hearing how I'm getting on with picks, the two sets I ordered arrived yesterday:

flickr.com/photos/courgettelaw...otostream

A pair of small brass propiks, split wrap.

A pair of the thinnest gauge dunlop silver nickel picks.

Two plastic thumb picks, one adjustable propik, the other a small size regular dunlop.

Currently I am practising forward rolls and the basic chords of G, D7 and C. Yesterday I tried out Bile dem cabbage down from Janet Davis's tutorial and it wasn't sounding at all bad by the end, chord transitions smoother. I was also finding I could ignore most of the time the picks I was wearing (hurrah!) so long as my hand was anchored to the drum--this isn't always easy I find. I am still hitting the wrong string and scratching at the head at times but it is much better than before.

Thank you for persuading me to persevere and experiment!

Dave_SC - Posted - 06/08/2011:  14:32:55

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peanutscreams

Thanks so much minstrelmike, I've briefly tried that a few times and it does work. There's so much advice and warning in here about "Perfect Practice" makes perfect play that I was scared to try completing the song with out the hammer-on, thanks for clearing that up, such a relief to get the "green light" all clear to go from a pro. Going to be a fun day for me now!

Butch B.

---

Another technique is to slow down until you can do it properly, and practice, practice, practice.  Eventually speed will come.  It might take 800 practices runs (like me), but with perseverance, you will be able to do it. 

Edited by - Dave_SC on 06/08/2011 14:34:28

Ken_in_IN - Posted - 06/08/2011:  18:44:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by courgettelawn

I was also finding I could ignore most of the time the picks I was wearing (hurrah!) so long as my hand was anchored to the drum--this isn't always easy I find. I am still hitting the wrong string and scratching at the head at times but it is much better than before.

Thank you for persuading me to persevere and experiment!

---

I like the part about being able to ignore the picks - that's a good thing!  I think they should just become an extension of your fingers (of course when you go to scratch your nose with them on, you'll realize they're still there :-)

I think it took me about 4 months before I quit hitting the head with my thumb pick.  I'm finally getting to the point where I don't have to concentrate on which string I should be picking. For the most part is is starting to become natural (and I quickly realize when I'm hitting the wrong one).

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/09/2011:  01:10:27

Well done K, I aspire to that too! Banjo practice helps me unwind at the end of the day, yesterday I didn't get a chance and it showed, can't wait for later!

Jazz Country - Posted - 06/09/2011:  05:30:30

quote:

---

Originally posted by courgettelawn

If any other beginners are interested in hearing how I'm getting on with picks, the two sets I ordered arrived yesterday:

flickr.com/photos/courgettelaw...otostream

A pair of small brass propiks, split wrap.

A pair of the thinnest gauge dunlop silver nickel picks.

Two plastic thumb picks, one adjustable propik, the other a small size regular dunlop.

Currently I am practising forward rolls and the basic chords of G, D7 and C. Yesterday I tried out Bile dem cabbage down from Janet Davis's tutorial and it wasn't sounding at all bad by the end, chord transitions smoother. I was also finding I could ignore most of the time the picks I was wearing (hurrah!) so long as my hand was anchored to the drum--this isn't always easy I find. I am still hitting the wrong string and scratching at the head at times but it is much better than before.

Thank you for persuading me to persevere and experiment!

---

Glad to see you decided to explore. I like that adjustable Dunlop, I'm going to look for one myself. I use the smallest picks possibly when I play guitar because I feel I have more control and it's the closest thing to not using a pick at all. I'm finding out that the same thing applies to banjo. Someone here said something about using a thumb pick that only protrudes 3/16 of an inch. That makes a lot of sense to me.

1968Firebird - Posted - 06/10/2011:  03:28:27

someone said earlier in this thread to use a metronone so i dug mine out of the loft and it improved my playing almost instantly i practice all my rolls with it now and the quality of my finger technique has jumped overnight 

my metronome has a little led on top as well as the audio and i found having a visual helps 

many thanks to whoever suggested it 

Peanutscreams - Posted - 06/10/2011:  11:25:29

Firebird and others in need of a metronome.

Well Firebird fortunately had one in his attic, but I'm just replying to his last post.

Times are really tough for many of us and I also have been pricing metronome's, however I do not  have enough $$ in my piggy bank yet to purchase.

This morning for the heck of it I searched for free online metronome's and found this great place where one only has to go to this site and wa-la - there's your metronome! Open it up, wind it up, minimize your window and Bob's - Your - Uncle.. Hope this helps others as well as myself, really works so great. 

Butch B.

simple.bestmetronome.com/ 

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/10/2011:  13:56:53

That metronome is seriously cool! So much better than electronic pulse metronomes, and as you say, a whole lot less expensive than a 'real' one. Thanks so much for posting it here.

PaulBas - Posted - 06/11/2011:  07:25:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peanutscreams

Firebird and others in need of a metronome.

Well Firebird fortunately had one in his attic, but I'm just replying to his last post.

Times are really tough for many of us and I also have been pricing metronome's, however I do not  have enough $$ in my piggy bank yet to purchase.

This morning for the heck of it I searched for free online metronome's and found this great place where one only has to go to this site and wa-la - there's your metronome! Open it up, wind it up, minimize your window and Bob's - Your - Uncle.. Hope this helps others as well as myself, really works so great. 

Butch B.

simple.bestmetronome.com/ 

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You just saved me from a Saturday afternoon of boring comparison shopping!

I think I'll take a celebratory nap. 

Swedishchef315 - Posted - 06/11/2011:  12:06:43

hi all, i'm Ezra, i'm 29 from the Thousand Islands region of NY. i swear like a trucker, i'm covered in tattoos and i drink like it's going out of style, i totally smashed the stereotype of the one-toothed over-all wearing hillbilly that all banjo players are perceived to be. i've wanted a banjo for 23 years and this year i finally got one. i have been around string instruments since i was 13 or so so i've got a little knowledge but the art of banjo has proven herself to be a tricky one. if anyone wants to chat about banjoing (typo on purpose) drop me a PM, i'll hook you up with my info.

ps: i hope the bold font doesn't bother anyone, i use it in every forum i'm a part of.

sam-i-am - Posted - 06/11/2011:  15:46:46

My wife bought me a banjo for Christmas because I said that I've always wanted to learn to play one. I have zero experience on any musical instrument and I'm 67 years old.

I have a great instructor who I go to for lessons every week or so depending on our schedule. This forum shows me that I am not the only one who thinks he/she is all thumbs trying to learn. I see I have the same problems you have so I don't feel so bad.

My hardest problem is keeping my ring finger anchored. It just won't stay put. My next problem is striking the right string. The third is I have really large hands so I mute adjacent strings. I have started lifting my fingers after striking that string. Anyway, I'm enjoying the process and know that someday I'll get there. Great forum.

justdrawinglines - Posted - 06/11/2011:  16:25:14

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this (sorry, I didn't bother to search), but if you have an adroid phone, there is an awesome tuner app -- cohortor.org/gstrings/Documentation.html

Also, there is a metronome app called Mobile Metronome  appbrain.com/app/mobile-metron...metronome

I also have an app called My Piano which comes in handy at times  getandroidstuff.com/piano-andr...load-v10/

Well worth the FREE download to your phone!

Peanutscreams - Posted - 06/11/2011:  22:15:21

quote: My hardest problem is keeping my ring finger anchored .

Welcome sam-i-am. I'm having a few problems also getting started. Funny we all seem to have something different. I have no problem at all with my ring finger but I share the same problem as you regarding muting other strings with my large fingers. Your wife certainly bought you a nice gift. Enjoy.

Butch B.

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Originally posted by sam-i-am

My wife bought me a banjo for Christmas because I said that I've always wanted to learn to play one. I have zero experience on any musical instrument and I'm 67 years old.

I have a great instructor who I go to for lessons every week or so depending on our schedule. This forum shows me that I am not the only one who thinks he/she is all thumbs trying to learn. I see I have the same problems you have so I don't feel so bad.

My hardest problem is keeping my ring finger anchored. It just won't stay put. My next problem is striking the right string. The third is I have really large hands so I mute adjacent strings. I have started lifting my fingers after striking that string. Anyway, I'm enjoying the process and know that someday I'll get there. Great forum.

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courgettelawn - Posted - 06/12/2011:  04:30:46

Hi Sam-i-am,

Keep going, it's amazing how sometimes it just 'clicks into place' (while at others you end up all thumbs and no fingers). Having small hands my biggest difficulty is gaining enough 'clearage' with my right hand and I have to use my ring finger to anchor as I don't get enough height with my little finger!

Having learnt other instruments before I now know to not practise when my head's not in it and to practise for as long as feels comfortable. It's no fun if you start to ache or feel tired. It's also a liberation not to have to learn an instrument to pass grade exams etc!

Keep in touch with your story and more power to your elbow,

Tehmina

1968Firebird - Posted - 06/12/2011:  10:40:14

quote:

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Originally posted by courgettelawn

Hi Sam-i-am,

Keep going, it's amazing how sometimes it just 'clicks into place' (while at others you end up all thumbs and no fingers). Having small hands my biggest difficulty is gaining enough 'clearage' with my right hand and I have to use my ring finger to anchor as I don't get enough height with my little finger!

Having learnt other instruments before I now know to not practise when my head's not in it and to practise for as long as feels comfortable. It's no fun if you start to ache or feel tired. It's also a liberation not to have to learn an instrument to pass grade exams etc!

Keep in touch with your story and more power to your elbow,

Tehmina

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thats spot on 

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/12/2011:  12:32:15

I've just started chronicling my banjo experiences, starting out with how I chose and bought my banjo. Folks here might find it of interest. Every time I add a new post, I'll add a link from a blog entry on here:

banjohangout.org/my/courgettelawn

Peanutscreams - Posted - 06/12/2011:  13:07:51

quote: I did find it interesting Tehmina, very well done, thank you. 

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Originally posted by courgettelawn

I've just started chronicling my banjo experiences, starting out with how I chose and bought my banjo. Folks here might find it of interest. Every time I add a new post, I'll add a link from a blog entry on here:

banjohangout.org/my/courgettelawn

 

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sam-i-am - Posted - 06/17/2011:  05:53:53

Thanks for your encouragement and advice.  I had my two-year old grandson at our house a few weeks ago and introduced him to my banjo.  I hope I can get him interested some day.

starhopper - Posted - 06/17/2011:  12:15:54

quote:

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Originally posted by minstrelmike

I learned on my own. Wasted a bunch of time trying to learn specific fingering technique from banjo manuals.

Eventually, a truck driver showed me how I could play any song in the world just strumming and using a chord chart.

That got _music_ working at a basic level for me. Then I'd pick and frail over those songs and get them working good enough to play at parties. After about a year of that, all the junque in the banjo manuals made a lot more sense.

It is easy to learn banjo all by yourself. I think it is very difficult to learn Bluegrass Banjo or Old-Time Banjo by yourself if you cannot already do regular banjo or regular guitar--you know, strumming Down in the Valley or Tom Dooley.

If you really want to learn by yourself, close the banjo instructional stuff and for a month or so, work your way thru every songbook you can find just doing the chords. ANY GENRE EXCEPT BLUEGRASS OR OLD-TIME. Play at least 100 different songs and get at least 3 or 5 of them working so they sound like songs.



Then look at the banjo manual. If you've already tried banjo instruction, then after you've played the chords to at least 100 songs, get out the fingerpicks or try frailing without any fancy lefthand stuff such as slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs, or even melody notes, and see what falls into your lap.

J.D. Crowe already played guitar before he tried learning banjo just from Earl's breaks.

Earl played simple songs in simple styles before he figured out the complications of rolls.

Earl did NOT start with FMB. That's essentially where he ended.

Start at the beginning and you can do it by yourself. (Start with songs you can already hum or recognize).

Start anywhere else and you'd better have a good guide and lots of patience.

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I must say, I tend to agree with minstrelmike - I played the guitar for many years just strumming along with the songs - had a ton of them memorized.  It was much easier for me to make the jump to finger picking the guitar since I already knew the songs by heart and my left hand was already trained, so I could then concentrate on my right had picking work.

I am expecting delivery of a new Deering Sierra next week and will start learning the chords to the songs first, them worry about rolls and such later on when I have the chords and songs down.  At least that's how I "intend" to start lol - Maybe I'll get impatient and try to get fancy if I get bored strummin'!

Lyle

Edited by - starhopper on 06/17/2011 12:17:53

minstrelmike - Posted - 06/17/2011:  15:46:23

Lyle, here's the two-pronged approach to bluegrass finger-picking that is about the ony shortcut you can take without losing a lot of time or effort.

1. Play (strum) every song you know on the guitar on the banjo. Learn your chords. Especially use the up-the-neck ones and play around trying different G or C chords in the song. That's the best way to get used to the differences of the inversions and to practice using them in songs. You aslo immediately develop the idea of listening to what the heck you're doing as you're doing it. The song is the goal, not the banjo.

2. For picking practice, just do the TM TIM TIM over and over and over. Practice it fast, too. It's like riding a bike. Slow is all wobbly and off-time. Try drumming your fingers fast AND out-of-time.

Once you have the roll up-to-speed and can keep it going across chord changes, you're pretty much done. Then start working on licks and arrangements (assuming you've already got 10 or 20 songs that sort of work just with chords so you have additional material to practice your new licks learned from arrangements).

What this approach does is let the student discover the ease of picking on the banjo. On Day 2, you'll be messing around with the chords a real song with your fingerpicks on and you'll magically discover the varieties of 'square roll' or back and forth pciking that work like magic on the banjo, esecially with that 5th string.

I've seen folks take weeks to grok the separateness of picking vs lefthand when they learn via a memorization of arrangements method, regardless of whether it is 'ear' or 'visual teacher' or tab.