drefoss - Posted - 03/28/2011:  13:55:15

I like that saying Jazz, and if you think about it it's true and makes sense, day's that I think are terrible are still so far ahead of 6 months ago.

k-dawg - Posted - 03/28/2011:  14:12:01

It's interesting that once in a while, I just don't have the spirit to practice, and have to force myself.
I pick up my stick, and the next thing I know, I've been at it so long that my hands start to ache, but I can't put it down until I get this one little thing right.
I keep going, and by the end, I'm happy with what I have accomplished, and the sounds are really comming together.
Now, I've only been doing this for about 5 weeks, and when I consider the progress in that little time, I have to wonder what I'll be playing like a year from now.
Stay with it everyone, you are making progress even if you don't think you are.
I read a thread once that suggested you should record yourself every week or so, and review in order to see your progress. I think it's a great idea and I may start doing that myself.
Pick on!
Ken

drefoss - Posted - 03/28/2011:  14:18:37

That is a good idea, at least when a person get's discouraged they could hear their improvement. But I do have days where I try and can't do the easiest things or tunes right?? Then a few hours later or the next day it's great, well not bad. I think that sometimes if your mind is to preoccupied with other things you can't get your head around the banjo. That's my story LOL.

cmtpres - Posted - 03/28/2011:  14:52:36

I've only been at this for a week today and I can tell an improvement - the fingers aren't totally dumb about where to go but lordy. I'm awful! My wife loves it so I'm not banished to the garage - lol. Looking forward to just a simple tune sounding decent - another week and it ought to happen.

I'm loving the banjo and just waiting for it to come together one day at a time.

sdixonhill - Posted - 03/29/2011:  15:26:48

Hello all,I started pickin about 2 months ago and this site is a source of inspiration.
When I hit walls with my playing,I put her down an come back to her.If I get flustered I don"t learn anything.
I live in Ga,an would like to find a teacher so i could have a bit more structure.any one on here ?
Cheers.

chickenbilljones - Posted - 05/23/2011:  21:31:42

Glad to see all these newbies hitting the forum! I hope it is a big help to you. Express yourself in a positive way and keep checking back for new information.

Rattlesnake - Posted - 05/24/2011:  03:17:10

5th week of being a Banjo player and this forum or rather this site with all the info that it has, has been an inspiration and a teacher. Thank god for the internet.

cmtpres - Posted - 05/24/2011:  06:09:30

I've been playing for a couple of months now and things are beginning to come together,  The timing is improving and the fingers are starting to go where they are supposed to go without me looking at them. 

subbuteo - Posted - 05/25/2011:  02:53:27

I have been playing since last September.  I've never played any instrument before so it has been a challenge.  I wouldn't say I really understand what I'm doing yet but I am amazed at how muscle memory works- I find my fingers doing things at the right time because I let them- if I think about it, it falls apart.  I've started taking lessons via Skype and that has really helped me develop left hand techniques.  I can only play three tunes - Cripple Creek (medium speed), Clinch Mountain Backstep (slow) and Banjo in the hollow (a basic version).  I am happy with that!  I'm learning a couple of new ones now and it is getting easier.

carloss1962 - Posted - 05/25/2011:  15:56:24

the problem is you cant pick up a banjo and play like your hero,s straight away.Im 49 and just starting to learn,they say to be as good as Earl you have to practice 10 hours a day for 30 years so at least i should be able to play one good tune before i snuff it.practice is the key.

Dave_SC - Posted - 05/25/2011:  17:18:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by phb

quote:

---

Originally posted by BarbieSue



my family thinks I'm nuts

---

I believe that's a prerequesite of becoming a banjo player...

---

I second that.  My family & friends definitely think I am nuts...

Dave_SC - Posted - 05/25/2011:  18:33:06

I am a newbie as well.  We don't have many bugs in Southern California where I live, but I got bit by the bluegrass bug.  Or maybe is has something to do my Kentucky roots.  I don't know... but I just fell in love the sound of a 5-string banjo.  Never played an instrument before, and one day went to my local music shop and bought a banjo.   I don't have a local teacher.  I prefer to use videos and tabs as instruction aides which fits my erratic schedule best.  I have mostly used Geoff Hohwalds learning material (Scruggs Style) and really like it.  The material is high quality and presented very simply and clearly.  (Thanks and good job Geoff, if you are reading).   So far I have been practicing/playing for about 5 months.  The journey to this point has been really frustrating as my fingers reluctantly do what my brain tells them to, and at times I thought I would never progress.  But progress has happened slowly but surely.  It's a long term commitment, you have to work at it every day, and keep a positive attitude.

Happy picking,

-Dave

Edited by - Dave_SC on 05/25/2011 18:34:47

Jazz Country - Posted - 05/26/2011:  04:02:36

Dave - you have the right attitude. It can take a long time to get good at this, so perseverance can be our most valuable attribute. Be happy with the small victories that will eventually build up layers of skill and knowledge. With dedicated quality practice it will happen. If you haven't done this yet, one thing that will really help is a lesson with a live teacher or one of the many instructors available through Skype. Believe me, even just one lesson from a good instructor can make a tremendous difference on your approach to the instrument and music in general. 

BTW, your avatar leads me to believe you take your frustrations out on innocent bystanders. Are you sure you want to take the chance of damaging your banjo by striking it against potentially hard heads? :-)

Larry

WalterVA - Posted - 05/26/2011:  10:44:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave_SC

quote:

---

Originally posted by phb

quote:

---

Originally posted by BarbieSue



my family thinks I'm nuts

---

I believe that's a prerequesite of becoming a banjo player...

---

I second that.  My family & friends definitely think I am nuts...

 

---

That's funny.  Everyone I tell I've taken up the banjo (about six weeks now) has told me it's cool.  My wife teaches piano lessons out of the house, and even her kid students think it's cool.  Are you telling me I'm not really finally playing a "cool" instrument?

Dave_SC - Posted - 05/26/2011:  11:35:52

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazz Country

BTW, your avatar leads me to believe you take your frustrations out on innocent bystanders. Are you sure you want to take the chance of damaging your banjo by striking it against potentially hard heads? :-)

Larry

---

Only take out frustrations mindless Zombies... and I use someone else's instrument ;-)

joef77 - Posted - 05/26/2011:  16:02:40

Its been a month, wow how time flys! When I first put on my picks It felt odd. After a few hours It felt natural and after I got my picks to fit just right and the pinky plant down. Now Im on lesson 19 in the Janet davis banjo book. the tunes I can play from learning in the book is cripple creek,Gray goose, mountain dew, blackberry blossom, Boil them cabbage down, and an ending. I am now working on cumberland gap. I sure love the banjo. I first though I made a mistake buying a banjo.Now my only mistake is not buying one sooner!

Peanutscreams - Posted - 05/26/2011:  21:22:11

Guess it's my turn.  Sure glad there is this forum if only to confirm the fact "I'm not the only one" ! Before finding this forum I thought my struggles the past 2 weeks were due to my age and perhaps a tad bit to many tokes in my younger days. I'm 54.  I've always loved the banjo; my wife bought me one off Amazon couple weeks ago for our anniversary. This is so much fun, and I am so motivated that I have been trying everyday to learn something, anything!  My fingers are numb and the fatty part of my left hand keeps muting the other strings, no matter how perpendicular I place it over the neck. But I'm not about to give up, I know I can eventually learn how to pick Yankee-Doodle at least by the end of the month. :) Peace. 

Edited by - Peanutscreams on 05/26/2011 21:23:47

Ken_in_IN - Posted - 05/27/2011:  04:30:07

Hi All,

It's been 1 year with lessons, and I certainly am farther along now that when I bought my banjo last April.  I still find myself needed my tabs to play a song, but find myself more and more being able to play a phrase or 2 without looking at it (YEAH!!)

I don't think I stare at my picking hand much anymore (until that really strange - What the heck was that?! - sound comes out of my banjo.

Still struggling with left hand positional changes, though I can see small improvements.

Time to go listen to some Bela and dream :-)

Have a great holiday weekend!

Ken_in_IN - Posted - 05/27/2011:  04:32:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peanutscreams

My fingers are numb and the fatty part of my left hand keeps muting the other strings, no matter how perpendicular I place it over the neck. But I'm not about to give up,

---

One trick my instructor told me was to rotate the banjo to bring the head up closer to my ear.  It seems that it's easier to place my fingers properly without muting the other strings. Works for me anyway.

Peanutscreams - Posted - 05/27/2011:  07:38:27

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken_in_IN

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peanutscreams

My fingers are numb and the fatty part of my left hand keeps muting the other strings, no matter how perpendicular I place it over the neck. But I'm not about to give up,

---

One trick my instructor told me was to rotate the banjo to bring the head up closer to my ear.  It seems that it's easier to place my fingers properly without muting the other strings. Works for me anyway.

---

 Thanks Ken, I am excited to try this advice today!

carloss1962 - Posted - 05/28/2011:  12:45:17

two ways i was told to help arch your wrist is to either trap a tennis ball or sponge between your wrist and banjo,hope this helps.

Peanutscreams - Posted - 05/28/2011:  13:48:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by carloss1962

two ways i was told to help arch your wrist is to either trap a tennis ball or sponge between your wrist and banjo,hope this helps.

---

 Thank you Carloss - Sounds like a great idea! This I will try today.

Ken_in_IN - Posted - 05/28/2011:  15:10:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by carloss1962

two ways i was told to help arch your wrist is to either trap a tennis ball or sponge between your wrist and banjo,hope this helps.

---

I used a racketball.  It has a smaller diameter than and tennis ball and doesn't seem to stress my wrist so much.

whatsupcupcake - Posted - 05/28/2011:  22:03:21

Another newbie here! I had my first lesson today and I was terrified (but so excited!).  I instantly went home and practiced for an hour... enjoyed the day a bit, then practiced for another hour.  

I've never played a string instrument, just very elementary piano and accordion experience.  So it was actually really nice finding out that I don't have to be fluent in sheet music. Tabs seem very do-able.

I felt so clumsy in my lesson and couldn't believe it when the half an hour was up - and yet was so relieved that I didn't have to fumble through Worried Man Blues in front of my teacher again.  But at home, the roll is getting a bit easier and I take break in between just to get used to doing the chords.  I'm excited for the long weekend to get a lot of practice time in, and my next lesson isn't for another two weeks, so I think it'll be a good amount of time to get comfortable in positioning my fingers properly (my pinky just won't stay down!).

I skimmed through a lot of the posts on this thread and am feeling really hopefully! I think at the end of the week I'll record my playing so I can listen to it later on when I advance.  Thanks for the encouragement to all of the beginners out there! I'm really looking forward to the advice and tips on these boards.

Ken_in_IN - Posted - 05/29/2011:  06:30:07

quote:

---

Originally posted by whatsupcupcake

 my next lesson isn't for another two weeks, so I think it'll be a good amount of time to get comfortable in positioning my fingers properly (my pinky just won't stay down!).

I skimmed through a lot of the posts on this thread and am feeling really hopefully! I think at the end of the week I'll record my playing so I can listen to it later on when I advance.  Thanks for the encouragement to all of the beginners out there! I'm really looking forward to the advice and tips on these boards.

---

Welcome to the forum!

You'll find a lot of opinions as to that pinky. Mines way shorter, and I tend to anchor with my ring finger instead. My pinky sometimes decides to go to the head also, but my ring finger is my main anchor.

Have fun, and don't forget to grin while you pick :-)

Ken

Peanutscreams - Posted - 05/29/2011:  10:41:05

quote: Hi Cupcake. Great idea to record yourself. I recorded my first practice last week on my YouTube page. boy was I shocked at how awful it sounded. Told my self I would record a small practice every two weeks and one of these days perhaps I will get brave enough to make one public. Good luck and welcome aboard.

---

Originally posted by whatsupcupcake

Another newbie here! I had my first lesson today and I was terrified (but so excited!).  I instantly went home and practiced for an hour... enjoyed the day a bit, then practiced for another hour.  

I've never played a string instrument, just very elementary piano and accordion experience.  So it was actually really nice finding out that I don't have to be fluent in sheet music. Tabs seem very do-able.

I felt so clumsy in my lesson and couldn't believe it when the half an hour was up - and yet was so relieved that I didn't have to fumble through Worried Man Blues in front of my teacher again.  But at home, the roll is getting a bit easier and I take break in between just to get used to doing the chords.  I'm excited for the long weekend to get a lot of practice time in, and my next lesson isn't for another two weeks, so I think it'll be a good amount of time to get comfortable in positioning my fingers properly (my pinky just won't stay down!).

I skimmed through a lot of the posts on this thread and am feeling really hopefully! I think at the end of the week I'll record my playing so I can listen to it later on when I advance.  Thanks for the encouragement to all of the beginners out there! I'm really looking forward to the advice and tips on these boards.

---

Jazz Country - Posted - 05/29/2011:  10:50:49

Recording is a great way to surprise yourself in two ways:

1. You record yourself and think you played well. You play it back and it's really bad. On the positive side, now you know what you need to work on, so use the experience to your advantage.

2. You record yourself and think it was dreadful. You play it back and it sounds pretty darned good!

Either way you win.

Larry

whatsupcupcake - Posted - 05/29/2011:  11:58:55

Thanks for the words of encouragement Ken and Butch!  Ken, I've found that it's getting easier and easier to hold my ring and pinky fingers down though the pinky sometimes just 'catches air' over the top of the skin. :)  I'm working on it! I do like the idea of rubber banding them that I read in some of the posts.  

Larry good points on the recording! I'm apprehensive about doing it for point #1, but at the same time I realize I can only get better... right?? 

I practiced for hours yesterday and picked it up again first thing this morning. I can definitely feel an improvement and my friend is coming over to offer advice.  I finally found the recording of the how the song is supposed to go. Whoa! Well, now I know what I'm striving for. ;) I'm giving myself two weeks (when I have my next lesson) to make it have some semblance to the tune.  Right now I'll continue to break down the chords and work on the roll. Oh and there are a lot of laughs so that's a bonus too!

courgettelawn - Posted - 05/30/2011:  02:23:37

Hi all,

I have finally bought my first banjo, a Deering Goodtime Crow. I have been scouting the web for some good total beginner videos and sites and found a couple butnwhat I'm looking for to start with is somewhere to learn all the banjo basics. The concept of playing notes with the left hand is new to me with hammer-ons pull offs and so on, as is reading this all through tabs rather than regular musical notation. My first time with it yesterday I practised slides, hammer-ons and pull offs on a repeated riff (I guess this is a lick) that I found on a YouTube video. I found thus the most helpful. I haven't started on chord patterns which many of the 'beginner' vids used.

So, can anyone recommend me a place to learn all these basics before I continue to practises so I know the meaning of certain terminology etc.?

Very excited already, can't wait to pick it up again!

Jazz Country - Posted - 05/30/2011:  03:55:56

Hi Tehmina - congratulations on your new musical adventure. I'm just a few months into banjo playing and I began with the Janet Davis "You Can Teach Yourself Banjo" book/DVD. Janet is a fine teacher and her book assumes you have never played an instrument before. She starts with the absolute basics and gradually leads you through more complex concepts. I'm a music reader too, so at first the TAB idea was a bit strange, but it makes perfect sense for bluegrass banjo because so much of the music is either quarter or eighth notes. I am no longer a notation snob :-))

Of course, the best way to learn is face to face with a teacher, if only for a few lessons. If you can't find one in Swansea there are plenty of good instructors on this site that offer lessons through Skype.

Hope this helps. Have fun!

Larry

courgettelawn - Posted - 05/31/2011:  12:56:15

Thanks Larry, I will definitely look up Janet Davis's book and cd. I hadn't though about online one to one lessons. Will have to think about that! At the moment just enjoying picking it up and repeating the little lick I learnt a couple of days back and trying to get my fingers to learn their way around the fingerboard. Small steps!

minstrelmike - Posted - 05/31/2011:  13:38:06

If you want to learn chord patterns, STRUM songs just like a first day guitarist.

Get any songbook of songs you could actually recognize on the radio and try them. The Beatles, Hank Williams. Green Day, whatever.

Find a chord chart and make the chords.

Once you get two or three already familiar tunes working, try picking them., Use any picking pattern.

Getting basic songs working as just chords is I think a far better start than getting a bunch of fancy licks working on a single song.

courgettelawn - Posted - 06/01/2011:  09:43:09

Thank you minstelmike, this is exactly the kind of advice I was after. I will try 3-4 chords and then try the one picking pattern I have learnt on them. Very many thanks!

I am also now awaiting Janet Davis's DVD and book which I got for a bargain £8!

justlearning - Posted - 06/01/2011:  16:02:59

Hello everyone! I am glad to find this section of the hangout. i have had my banjo for all of three weeks now with no musical experience behind me at all, so it will be an interesting journey. Did anyone else have 50 fits when their beautiful new banjo arrived with no bridge in, and no tuning? What a laugh. I did have instructions from the nice folks that supplied it, I was just too much of an incompetent scaredy cat to do it. I got there in the end, though, but I hoped that it would not be a sign of things to come. I am really enjoying playing (badly lol!) and have found a lovely teacher, so I am very lucky. I have got some rolls going and have managed a couple of baby songs. My left hand, unfortunately does not seem to belong to the rest of me, and chord changes are a nightmare!!! (I hate c) but I still cant wait to practice when I come home from work. I look forward to learning along with you all and hearing about your experiences. This seems like a cool place to take inspiration from each other (and commiserate when things are not going well - lol!)

ATB, Ali

cmtpres - Posted - 06/01/2011:  16:09:03

I think we all have misbehaving fingers.  I've been playing for a couple of months and the fingers are usually doing what I tell them but the brain sometimes loses its way.  Just play every day and enjoy the journey, if it were easy, it wouldn't be much of an accomplishment.

Peanutscreams - Posted - 06/01/2011:  17:36:35

Well I just recorded myself at what I thought was the second part of my first recording two weeks ago. I was really disappointed of how little of a change there was until my wife pointed out the fact that it had only been one week between my recordings! Wow, no wonder there was such a small (if any) amount of improvement. All the practicing I have been doing just seemed like two weeks worth. I need to slow down and let this banjo come to me rather than chase after it. Oh well, I am having fun and I do feel as though my fingers are beginning to go where there suppose to go at the right time. 

jonesorado - Posted - 06/02/2011:  03:13:15

After attending a couple of bluegrass festivals and being part of local bluegrass jam sessions in college (I played along with leg slaps, yodels and jug blowing), I am ecstatic to be playing a modestly priced Deering Goodtime 5-string.  It has been so much fun getting started.  Really just want to say thank you to BOH for being here and chickenbilljones for starting this very informational thread.  Thanks again.

thetexan - Posted - 06/02/2011:  09:02:28

On the subject of recording yourself and banjo study in general.....

There is a list of several important things that should used in any serious attempt at learning the banjo, recording yourself among them.

1.  Always use a systematic, deliberate method for your study.  Try not to be haphazard which almost all new players do to some degree or another.  Dont skip around.  Most method books have a scope and sequence that should be followed.  If you work on rolls do so in a way that ensures that you cover all the bases.  What I mean by that is be sure that your roll study includes proper hand position, proper finger position, proper string attack, clarity, tone, etc.  This is part of the complete roll package.  If you study chords, do so in complete segments, ie. All of the key of G chords, G progressions, in first, second, and third positions, in F, D and barre formations.  The complete chord package includes hand posture, neck grasp, clarity, control of muscle tension and a few others.

2.  Practice, of course.  But only effective practice.  You have heard it many times...."practice does NOT make perfect, practice only makes HABIT.  Only perfect practice make perfect habit.  This is a testimony to the power of muscle memory, which, by the way, is the core essential to learning the banjo.  WHATEVER you practice, where good or bad, is implanted into your muscle memory.  You depend on your muscle memory to repeat any task subconsciously.  So as you are learning something and are  practicing it and making mistakes, your muscle memory is being taught these mistakes.  This cant be helped...we all make mistakes.  But you must do everything possible to reduce the amount of reinforcement of these mistakes by not making them! Easier said that done, huh!  Speed is the key culprit here.  Practicing faster than you can do something correctly induces mistakes.  Slow down so that you can repeat a task as correctly as possible without making error.  This reinforces correct muscle memory habit.  In all cases, do all that you can to not practice error.

3.  Use a metronome or beat device to steady your practice especially in the first several hundred hours of learning.  Use it anytime you do repetitive practice especially like rolls or rehearsing songs.  Timing is a critical part of bluegrass banjo and it is one of the most neglected training items.  Many of the greats use one regularly, Ron Block comes to mind.  You will be training yourself to have an inner timing rhythm that will serve you as you perform.

4.  Record yourself regularly and STUDY...let me repeat that......S  T  U  D  Y.....I know you didnt hear me......ANALYZE, DISSECT, CONCENTRATE ON, AND STUDY!!!!! what you record......CRITICALLY!  To let you know how very important this is to rapid learning progress let me give you a few examples from the real world that I am personally familiar with.

a.   In the field of radio and television broadcasting air talent record themselves almost daily, certainly weekly.  We called them air-checks.  During my radio years I personally (and most other on-air talent) made a tape everyday in order to 'catch' mistakes I invariably would make allowing me to go back and analyze them after the fact.  It also let me hear myself and hear how certain vocal anomalies would creep in.  Assuming there were no mistakes that I felt I needed to review, I would listen to tapes no less than once a week to listen to what I sound like.  I would listen for improper pronunciation, vocal and accent trends, etc.  I was in a constant state of listening, analyzing and correcting.  For example, say "I'm going to the store".  Almost certainly you said 'Ahm goin tuh thuh store."  It's 'eye'm' not 'ahm'.....it's "...two theeee (not thuh) store".  Say the number 100.  You said 'one hunderd'.....it's not hunderd, it's hundread".  Television talent are equally obsessed with demo reels and analysis. 

 b.   At certain stages of flight training we will video tape take-offs and landings of a student for analysis.  This is done at many major airports by several major airlines.  Bad landings do not go unnoticed.

c.   In the world of air traffic everything is recorded and we review tapes regularly to ensure quality and correctness of transmissions.

d.  I record myself regularly as I practice.  I am never satisfied with what I hear.  I always find things wrong, even when I thought I was flawless.  This goes to show that no performance is perfect.  There is always room to improve.

e.  When my daughter was a competitve swimmer, we video recorded training sessions and analyzed technique and performance.  We caught many things in slow motion that just couldn't be seen real time.

Nothing is more sobering nor instructive than to listen to yourself.  More often than not you will be disgusted with yourself.  It is precisely this dissatisfaction that motivates your into corrective action.  You will be your worse critic.  

I recommend you record yourself on two occasions.  One, once per week to listen to how you play in general, looking for any signs of incorrectness in your playing such as clarity (especially clarity), tone, etc.  Look for general trends in improper play as well as progress from the previous week.  Keep these recordings, well labeled, so that you can compare to previous weeks.  Two, record yourself often, several times per week, when you work on specific items such as rolls or specific licks or songs.  As you practice 2 or 3 hundred rolls, or licks, have the recorder running,  then listen to yourself. 

The reason listening to yourself is so important is this.  You may say that you are 'listening' to yourself all the time as you play and recording is unneccessary.  This is incorrect for this reason.  As you are playing, or landing, or talking you do so with your muscle memory and brain engaged in the process.  This brain engagement tends to mask any errors that occur since it is the brain or muscle memory itself that is creating the error.  You are tricked into not recognizing the error as it occurs because, at the moment, it seems correct, else you wouldn't have done it.  This is not the case for glaring errors for which we all immediately recognize the fault and know at the moment we did it.  But we seldom recognize the subtle inconsistencies that creep into our performances.  Only when you disengage your brain and muscle memory from the action, listening to yourself remotely disengaged, can you 'see' what is happening. 

There are many inexpensive digital recorders on the market that do nicely for this.  I got mine at Best Buy.  Here is a sample one of many models available from expensive to inexpensive.  Along with a metronome consider it a necessary part of your banjo equipment.

bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+Digita...t=digital recorders&cp=1&lp=4

f.  Watch videos and listen to tapes of the masters.  STUDY AND ANALYZE what they are doing.  There is an enormous library of tapes and videos on youtube and the internet to serve this purpose.

5.  Play with others.  This is very important to your learning and maturing as a player.  Jam as often as possible.  Come to the jams regardless of your abilities.  The ONLY difference between you as a novice and the experienced expert jammers is that you will play more softly as a newbie, and maybe sit toward the back for the time being.  But you will be able to participate and you WILL learn enormously.  But come to the jams PREPARED.  What I mean by that is to bring something to the table.  For example, at this month's jam session be prepared with knowing all of the chords associated with the key of G and the standard I, IV, V progression.  That's not much but it's a complete chunk of knowledge so know it well.  You will be able to work with that chunk and be useful to a degree.  Next time be prepared with some vamping expertise and maybe some rolls.  Always come with more than you had before, each little chunk COMPLETE TO ITSELF.

6.  Let the majority of your study be toward the goal of mastering backup banjo.  The term backup does not imply something less or not as fun or not as important.  To the contrary, the ability to play masterful backup is the absolute epitome of banjo expertise.  It is the most fun, most important thing you will do with the banjo.  You will play backup 95% of the time and only play leads or solos 5%, and it may be more like 97/3.  Your ability to effectively, proficiently, masterfully, artistically and tastefully play backup to an ensemble of instrumentallists is mark of a good player.  Yet it is the most neglected part of a self-taught beginner's learning efforts.  It's more 'fun and exciting' to learn to play a song like FMB.  Nothing wrong with that but do so with deliberate and systematic moderation.  I recommend a ratio of about 80/20 of backup study to lead and solo study.  And the term backup is a little misleading although we throw it around alot.  It means mastery of the entire banjo skillset.  This includes, licks of all kinds and purposes (standalone, fill-in, transitional, melodic, etc), major, minor, and seventh chords for all keys, chord transitions, partial chords, purposeful and useful scale study and theory, neck and fretboard expertise,  improvisation (and this is a world all to its own), walk-ups, walk-downs, rolls of all kinds and most importantly the ability to improvise complex patterns.   And all of these in all 5 neck positions.  Then hundreds of hours of practice putting this to use adding backup to songs.  The ability to play backup, or better stated, the ability to use you banjo as an effective complementary musical instrument within an ensemble setting is what bluegrass banjo is all about, at least 95-97% of the time.  You will make your reputation on what you do 95-97% of the time rather than what you do 3-5% of the time.  Did I mention backup?

7.  Lastly, understand that you do not know what you do not know.  Especially if you teach yourself, you are likely to introduce poor technique that can be detrimental to your learning and terribly difficult to undo once you have made it a habit.  So assume that there is a better way than what you are doing and look for that better way.  Do this by seeking advise and wisdom from the enormous wealth of banjo wisdom here at the hangout, from teachers around you and players at jams.  Study books, watch players, absorb.  Absorb.  Think sponge.

more tips from your uncle tex

Edited by - thetexan on 06/02/2011 09:12:58

whatsupcupcake - Posted - 06/02/2011:  09:51:41

Wow! Thank you Tex! That post was so informative and helpful!

Jazz Country - Posted - 06/02/2011:  09:59:36

Hey texan, that should be required reading for all students and people who think they're hot when they're not.

Larry

Peanutscreams - Posted - 06/02/2011:  10:43:41

whatsupcupcake - Posted - 06/02/2011:  10:52:08

Condensed version that we say in Irish dance class 'Perfect practice makes perfect!'

Thanks for reminding me of this. I was practicing last night and found I wasn't holding my fingers right.  I need to remember that the saying applies to pretty much all learnings and that I sometimes I may need to slow down and practice it right to make sure I learn it right.

quote:

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Originally posted by thetexan

You have heard it many times...."practice does NOT make perfect, practice only makes HABIT.  Only perfect practice make perfect habit. 

thetexan - Posted - 06/02/2011:  12:15:22

Peanutscreams,

The nice thing about understanding how the learning process works is that it is applicable in any situation.  It applies especially for those wanting to become advanced at banjo but also for those who just want to have a little fun.  The reason it works this way is really an inverse application.  Let me explain.

Becoming a financial expert with several college degrees is necessary for upper Wall Street moguls to become successful along with some common sense.  But that much education certainly isnt necessary to start a small mom and pop business.  However, that small mom and pop business will succeed or fail according to the same laws of economics that CitiBank will.  Same rules, same results.  It behooves a small business owner to have a certain level of economic understanding and supply and demand processes in order to not be eaten by those fundamental laws and processes.

Same with learning the banjo.  There are certain fundamental principles to learning in general and with this instrument in particular that apply to and effect all banjo students.  These principles must be acknowledged or ignored and one's success at learning the banjo depends on which is chosen.

The nice thing is that no matter what level you aspire to you can benefit from understanding these ideas that will help you achieve your goals.  Take someone like yourself who just wants to enjoy being able to play a little and doesnt have the time or motivation to get deep into it.  All of the principles I wrote about apply to you but can be applied to a lesser degree.  Let's see how this works.

As to systematic study.  In your situation this simply means that whatever you want to learn do so thoroughly.  Want to learn the G chord.  You havent learned it until you can actually do it.  I presume you wont want to only learn it partially.  Well, what does this mean?  It means that as you learn to make the G chord do so completely, making sure you can perform all aspects such as posture, clarity, etc, before accepting to yourself that you are done with the G chord.  The main purpose for  a systematic approach is to guarantee that nothing is left out of the learning scheme.  HOWEVER SMALL that scheme is.  It is more of a development of philosophy and method, really.  And this method is usable by anyone in any situation.  What's more important is the inverse.  NOT being thorough with each chunk of learning no matter how small is always a detriment regardless of your level of aspiration.

Practice speaks for itself.

Using a metronome or some other form of rhythm can always be eliminated by anyone.  Not training yourself in the area of timing will ALWAYS have the same result regardless of your level of aspiration......poor timing.  One of those pesky laws of the universe that cant be avoided, poor training in timing results in poor timing.  Each of us pick and choose the results we want.  However, for just porch pickin, poor, or I should say, less than great timing is not a big deal.

Recording yourself is a tool to accelerate your progress.  It certainly is not necessary for just pleasure picking.  It is the fastest way to recognize and diagnose pesky problems you are trying to cure.  I got to be pretty good before I started recording myself.   Then I worked on fine tuning my playing.  It's like buying your first microwave oven.  Once you buy it you wonder how in the world you got by without it.

Playing with is others is an essential ingredient for those wanting to learn and a pleasure for those wanting to enjoy what they have learned.

Always assume there is a better way about anything.  Strive to find that way in direct proportion to your motivation to be better. 

In other words enjoy your banjo as a friend and never dread picking it up.  Have fun with it, work at it, sweat at it, kill yourself learning..........or dont.  Use these tips in proportion to your desires.  

tex

Dave_SC - Posted - 06/02/2011:  14:13:52

quote:

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Originally posted by thetexan

On the subject of recording yourself and banjo study in general.....

...

Absorb.  Think sponge.

more tips from your uncle tex

---

Another WOW!, Uncle Tex!  

That was a masterfully stated suggestion beginners.  Thanks for taking the time to outline and explain your thoughts on learning the banjo in a very clear and well thought out post.  As others have mentioned it should definitely be a sticky post.  After several months of practicing and learning, I have definitely come to the same conclusion that backup techniques are very important ...  At first I wanted to focus on playing all the fancy complicated lead stuff, but then the more I delved into the learning process, and read comments by folks here at the hangout, the more I realized that the backup techniques are critical.  I have recently acquired learning material (videos, and books) for backup techniques and I am directing a large portion of my practice routine to backup.  And I am also trying to be a sponge. 

A point of difficulty for me is that since I am learning on my own (no teacher), I find that learning from TABs you miss out on subtle timing differences as notes are played to make the tune sound "better" than a perfect in-time TAB playback.  Not sure what you call it... maybe syncopation?  But to help with this problem, I try to always get books with a companion CD or Video which demonstrates the 'right way' or 'the authors opinion of right-way' to play the tune.  

-Dave

Edited by - Dave_SC on 06/02/2011 14:15:41

GHohwald - Posted - 06/02/2011:  15:24:46

Here is a link that includes some free videos showing basic techniques:

freeguitarvideos.com/banjo_lessons.html

quote:

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Originally posted by courgettelawn

Thank you minstelmike, this is exactly the kind of advice I was after. I will try 3-4 chords and then try the one picking pattern I have learnt on them. Very many thanks!

I am also now awaiting Janet Davis's DVD and book which I got for a bargain £8!

---

Peanutscreams - Posted - 06/02/2011:  16:07:37

Thanks again Tex,

All points well taken, sure sounds very logical. I defiantly inspire to be a tad bit better than just a "porch picker", so hopefully I can purchase myself a metronome  soon. Three weeks into this now and I can't feel the keyboard here on my laptop with the tips of my left fingers! Hope that is a good thing.

I started with just a basic beginners book that showed me how to hold the banjo and pick yankee doodle and that was about it, so I sent that book back.  I'll have to save my allowance  and hopefully get a better book or even a couple DVD's.

 I am having some progress studying YouTube video's with Rob Bourassa. Although I think I started with a harder song than I should have, that being FMB, but I'm afraid to switch in mid stream here and try something different. He also stresses the importance of good timing and I can see how the metronome he uses helps me as I listen to it click away.

Thanks for taking the time to explain further to me the "certain fundamental principles" I need in order to advance properly.

Love your analogies: thinking bout getting another microwave just in case the one I have now goes south!

Butch  B.B

Tater sack Jack - Posted - 06/02/2011:  20:04:02

Very interesting thread. This seems like a good place for my first post. I just started the banjo two days ago. I'm starting with the first Murphy Method DVD. At this point I'm just practicing the initial rolls and chords at the beginning of the video. Difficult, but fun. I feel like a klutz, but I'm a happy klutz.

justdrawinglines - Posted - 06/03/2011:  08:19:21

If any beginners need some good motivation from someone who does not live in a van down by the river, check this out - youtube.com/watch?v=eaIvk1cSyG..._embedded

While not about the banjo, you can't resist getting caught up in his enthusiasm!

drefoss - Posted - 06/03/2011:  09:29:18

That's really cute.