rudy - Posted - 08/01/2011:  19:26:42

Welcome aboard, Brion.

"See those funny little brass screws/nuts? What's up with that?" 

The funny looking bolts are commonly referred to as elevator bolts.  They are used on rubber conveyor belts where it's desirable not to have the head pull through the belt material.

"Can I achieve GDAE tuning at this neck scale with steel strings, without breaking strings or deflecting the neck?"

Irish tenor banjos are often tuned GDAE, but the scale length (distance from nut to bridge) is something on the order of 17" to 19" maximum.  I don't see any indication of what the scale length of the neck is, so it's hard to say.  You might also run into difficulties keeping steel strings tensioned with the friction tuners that are on your neck.

Sometimes e-bay purchases are best hung on the wall if it becomes obvious that it will take an excessive amount of modification to accomplish your goals.

I'm also hoping to get this in as the 400th post. I was going to try and get the 200th post in, but missed that one!

 

justdiggity - Posted - 08/02/2011:  05:57:40

Thanks for the replies, guys. 400 posts... all I can say is WOW!

I was initially thinking that those elevator bolts would help in some way, in holding the neck together with the body. But it sounds like maybe not so much, huh? Crud...

Well, I may in the end put this one up the chimney and start from scratch. But before I chop it down for kindling, I'm wondering if I can run an idea by you all. This neck seems to be intended for standard G scale (it's basically the same length as my ordinary G scale banjo that I bought). Given that GDAE tuning with steel strings sounds questionable on that particular neck length, and given that those holes and elevator bolts appear to be someone's good idea gone horribly wrong... what if I just figure out a way to extend that portion of the neck a few inches inside the pot? I could cut a slot in the side of the pot to receive the neck, then also brace it with additional wood inside the pot. That would effectively shorten the neck, which might make GDAE more feasible. Maybe?

If that worked, then the only remaining problem would be that the top plate would have to be no thicker than the fingerboard, which is to say the top plate would have to be pretty thin. Not sure if that would pose any problems with tensioning the head from underneath?

Anyway, thanks again for the insight!

justdiggity - Posted - 08/02/2011:  05:59:57

By the way, the idea of a Frankenbanjo isn't so distasteful. This one is practice for me anyway, and I already told my daughter that her instrument will be unique, and she likes that. Sounds like it may be even more unique than I had anticipated!

MarkRough - Posted - 08/02/2011:  06:23:36

Just tangentially. . .  yes, of course you can tune it GDAE.  You'll need to figure out what gauge strings to do it most efficiently, though.  There are websites that can help calculate that given the scale length.  I  haven't done it in a while, but they're out there.

rudy - Posted - 08/02/2011:  15:30:11

"what if I just figure out a way to extend that portion of the neck a few inches inside the pot?"""".

Totally doable.  I'd just chop off the neck where it would intersect with whatever pot you're going to use and glue a section on the bottom that would extend through the pot.  A perch pole addition, if you will.  Then just add a thin piece of hardwood on top of your neck to act as a finger board.

Edited by - rudy on 08/02/2011 15:32:06

justdiggity - Posted - 08/03/2011:  05:48:56

OK thanks. I think I'll go that route. I was thinking about this while falling asleep last night, and I think I'm going to use a pre-tensioned hand drum for the head. That sounds like the easiest way to go for this particular project. I probably won't start work for another month or so when the shorter days and cooler weather find me inside a bit more. I'll be sure to post pictures of Frankenbanjo when I do. Thanks again everyone!

rudy - Posted - 08/03/2011:  17:52:09

2-1/2" deep by 12" walnut shaded pre-tensioned drum for about $20 HERE.

justdiggity - Posted - 08/04/2011:  05:08:47

Yup, that's what I've been looking at. Probably not 12" though... I'm thinking either 6" drum mounted inside a 10" pot, or 8" drum mounted inside a 12" pot. Either way, that would give me a 2" strip of wood top plate all around, which is something my daughter likes the look of, since we're planning on making it birds-eye maple. Tangentially, has there ever been a discussion on this forum of the size (diameter) of a banjo head as it relates to loudness and tone? I would think a larger head would have a lower resonance and thus produce a lower tone. Would it be louder too? (I know loudness is somewhat subjective, and based on the frequencies and resonances involved). Also, I've got some foam-tape gasket material left from my loudspeaker building days. I wonder if I should put that on the ledge that the hand drum will sit on? I imagine it would prevent any rattling between the drum and the ledge, but I wonder how it would affect frequency response? Only one way to find out I guess! Thanks!

Bisbonian - Posted - 08/21/2011:  21:46:44

Here are a few photos of the most recent mountain banjos I am working on.  Not done yet, but they are starting to look something like a banjo, at least.  Both have unusual soundholes, at the request of the people I am building them for.  One is based on an Arts and Crafts design called a Mackintosh Rose (or a mac-rose), and the other is a bas-relief version of a hibiscus.  Structurally complete...now all I have to do is make them sound good.

  Okay, clearly I need to figure out the right way to post images....

Edited by - Bisbonian on 08/21/2011 21:48:53

Randy Adams - Posted - 08/27/2011:  19:27:30

I wonder why I can't get any volume out of my first string? Fretless, steel strings. Neck is concave so is not touching above the fret point. Any help would be so appreciated.

VIDEO: Run Johnny Run (click to view)

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 08/27/2011:  19:34:53

Maybe it's something as simple as string diameter, meaning that first, skinny string may need a little more  (fretting) nail on a fretless?

Edited by - Sultans of Claw on 08/27/2011 19:36:34

Randy Adams - Posted - 08/27/2011:  19:53:03

Whoa! Problem solved thx Sultan! I've never used a nail on any fretless. Just used hard callouses. But this MB just would not ring. But now she does.

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 08/28/2011:  09:28:48

It's pretty new to me as well. I've just noticed when I'm able to finesse my fretting that way it really makes a difference, especially on that first string.

rudy - Posted - 09/16/2011:  08:09:26

I'm baaaack!

This is pushing the mountain banjo envelope, but it's within what I see as the defining characteristics.

There is a discussion started in the building section that has all the photos, video, and details of the build:

banjohangout.org/topic/215821

justdiggity - Posted - 09/16/2011:  08:29:30

That's beautiful!  Really gorgeous.  I'm still a little unclear how you tension the head from underneath.  Do you happen to have any closeup pictures from behind?

rudy - Posted - 09/16/2011:  09:20:48

justdiggity,

Thanks for the complements.  There are some close-up photos of the tensioning system in the thread for the build details (link below picture).  There is additional information in the "Artisan Bracket making photo essay" folder in the photo section of my hangout home page.  I'm also going to post a detailed cross section of the rim design there when I get a bit more free time.  That should make it more understandable.  Do feel free to ask further questions in the post in the building section of the forum.  That will most likely be the area that will reach the most folks interested in making a similar instrument.  There is also a nice video demo linked there.

MountainBanjo - Posted - 10/09/2011:  18:35:51

Has anyone made a mountain dulcimer based on the Firefox 3 book? I've been itchin to try one of those to keep my mountain banjos company, but its behind several other things on my do list.

RossR - Posted - 12/14/2011:  04:15:11

Thanks to this thread and folks on the forum I am making a mountain banjo, Posted about it over here you guys have some great talent building this banjos!!  I planon making two the first one is a christmas present for a friend and the second one will be for me. I have this silly notion of me sitting on my porch picking and grinning or maybe plucking and sucking is a better thought since I lack musical ability!!! :)



banjohangout.org/topic/219711/#2825297

Edited by - RossR on 12/14/2011 04:17:33

RossR - Posted - 12/16/2011:  18:04:23

Hi folks almost done heres the look still need to add the tailpiece and the bridge and the strings Enjoy

Randy Adams - Posted - 12/16/2011:  18:14:48

Looks real nice Ross!

Bisbonian - Posted - 12/16/2011:  18:14:50

"I have this silly notion of me sitting on my porch picking and grinning or maybe plucking and sucking is a better thought..."

as long as it's a beer.

RossR - Posted - 12/17/2011:  21:09:12

Well my first one is complete!! Lot of fun making one of these up!!

seem2 - Posted - 01/26/2012:  19:09:46

I built a mountain banjo over summer and winter vacation with a neat design. The head is tensioned with bolts going between the banjo's back, against which the wooden pot rests, and the wooden hoop, under which the head is trapped. The craftsmanship isn't perfect, but I guess that just makes more mountainy, and it sounds real nice. What's stained is red oak, and what's not is maple. I hope the pictures work right. I thought I'd share what I think is a unique design. Got any comments or questions?

Sultans of Claw - Posted - 01/27/2012:  05:27:45

I like the rugged, utilitarian look of that one, Charlie.  Nice job!

rudy - Posted - 01/28/2012:  17:41:24

Cool design, Charlie.  I like anything that shows innovation and creativity.   I'd think about dumping the nuts on the back and substituting Tee nuts.  Those protruding bolts look painful!

BanjoBach - Posted - 01/28/2012:  20:42:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by seem2

I built a mountain banjo over summer and winter vacation with a neat design. The head is tensioned with bolts going between the banjo's back, against which the wooden pot rests, and the wooden hoop, under which the head is trapped. The craftsmanship isn't perfect, but I guess that just makes more mountainy, and it sounds real nice. What's stained is red oak, and what's not is maple. I hope the pictures work right. I thought I'd share what I think is a unique design. Got any comments or questions?

---

 Hey, it looks good to me, but more importantly how does it sound?

tron.miller - Posted - 02/03/2012:  07:17:36

well...me too.



here are a few pics and here's the topic I started for it...

banjohangout.org/topic/227321



-Phil

Edited by - tron.miller on 02/03/2012 07:22:38

7

8

9

Slingerland - Posted - 02/17/2012:  19:41:45

Here's a couple of banjos I had made by Charlie Glenn of Banner Elk, NC for my little ones. The one of the right is Cherry, the one on the left is black walnut.

For more info: banjohangout.org/topic/219635

Edited by - Slingerland on 02/17/2012 19:43:24

RossR - Posted - 02/18/2012:  10:20:17

Rudy asked me to post these pics of my second mountain banjo this one is for me and I look forward to learning how to play!  Made the peg board to look kinda like a bird even added in a brass rod for an eye. enjoy

Ross

rudy - Posted - 03/24/2012:  05:20:54

Hi All,

Going the opposite direction from some of my more elaborate mountain banjo designs, I recently put together a simple banjo utilizing a Remo pre-tensioned Fibreskyn 3 hand drum for the pot.  It would definitely fit in with the mountain banjo esthetic, though.  This is an adaptation of my "Wine Box banjo" design, and you can use the same basic plans to make this banjo.  The Wine Box banjo plans are available as a free pdf download at my website if you want them.  Although you can use the 10" by 2" shown here, You could also opt for a 12" by 2-1/2" size, or even use a smaller diameter and use the outer surround to mimic the look of a Proffitt-style mountain banjo without the need to tension the head.  There are more detailed photos on my homepage photos section in the "Travel banjo" folder.

rudy - Posted - 03/24/2012:  13:01:37

If anyone would like to have the plans for usage of the Remo pre-tensioned hand drum to create the banjo shown above they are available here:

bluestemstrings.com/pageWineboxBanjo1.html 

There are 5 pdfs that assemble into a full size plan.

justdiggity - Posted - 03/25/2012:  18:22:04

Rudy, I was thinking of doing just what you did with that hand drum banjo you made.  My first used an 8" Remo hand drum inside a 12" body... I like the sound of it, but it's not very loud.  It has a nice tone though... pitch wise, the 8" hand drum seems to have roughly the same resonance / tension as what I like on a normal banjo head (for clawhammer style).  I was wondering about the larger drums - how they sound and how much volume.  Do you have any videos of it?  Yours looks really nice (as always!).  I can't tell by the picture - is it fretted or are those fret markers?

rudy - Posted - 03/26/2012:  14:58:10

quote:

---

Originally posted by justdiggity



Rudy, I was thinking of doing just what you did with that hand drum banjo you made.  My first used an 8" Remo hand drum inside a 12" body... I like the sound of it, but it's not very loud.  It has a nice tone though... pitch wise, the 8" hand drum seems to have roughly the same resonance / tension as what I like on a normal banjo head (for clawhammer style).  I was wondering about the larger drums - how they sound and how much volume.  Do you have any videos of it?  Yours looks really nice (as always!).  I can't tell by the picture - is it fretted or are those fret markers?

---

Thanks for the complement, I'm always thinking about ways to introduce folks into the banjo building world without a lot of investment in tools, materials, or even a lot of woodworking experiance.  Using the Remo drum cuts your work in half, even for a mountain banjo design. 

Sorry, no video yet, I should sit down and do a quick one.  The 10" has a nice tone, but isn't very loud when compared to a standard 11" open back.  If you're interested in volume I'd definitely go with the 12" by 2-1/2" deep version of the Remo pre-tensioned hand drum.

The lined finger board is created by simply drawing across the board with a Bic pen held against a straight edge at the appropriate locations.  It creates a nice incised line that won't rub off or smear.  The incised line positions are based upon a fixed 23" scale length, so that locks in your bridge position.  Without the lines you can obviously place the bridge wherever you like.  The line positions as shown are noted on the pdf plans referenced above.

rudy - Posted - 03/30/2012:  13:00:18

I have no financial interest in this, but here's a video of a mountain banjo being built if anyone would like to view it.

youtu.be/DUPK8HicQBA 

oldtimefolkie - Posted - 03/30/2012:  20:44:50

Do mountain banjos have the ~1-3 degree downward angle between the neck and the top of the pot like that of "regular" banjos?

Warren

rudy - Posted - 03/31/2012:  17:54:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldtimefolkie



Do mountain banjos have the ~1-3 degree downward angle between the neck and the top of the pot like that of "regular" banjos?

Warren

---

 Traditional styles, no.  

The finger board is aligned with the same plane as the head and a lower height 1/2" bridge is used.  They would benefit from having a bit of back angle for a number of reasons, but it's not often seen in the Proffitt style mountain banjo, which is oft cited as the definitive design.

justdiggity - Posted - 04/05/2012:  05:39:45

I finally finished my latest semi-mountain-ish style banjo. It uses a variation of Rudy's internal tensioning system, which works quite well. Video (and original song) here: youtube.com/watch?v=b0JVTyV11U0

I'm learning a lot as I go along. For starters, I've realized that two of the biggest factors in how a banjo sounds are the amount of tension on the head and the bridge. It took me quite a while to tweak these two elements to get the sound just right. If the tension was too low, I got a nice plunky sound on open strings and frets down by the nut, but higher notes further up the neck didn't resonate and ring the way I wanted them too. I kept cranking the tension up until I found the right resonance. The highs still sounded a little muddy, so just as an experiment I took the bridge off my other banjo and tried it on this one - the bridge has an ebony strip and just happened to be the right height (11/16"). Voila! It was like like those Claritin commercials, where they show the first half of the commercial in a haze and then remove the haze so things look clear. It finally sounded clear. The original bridge I made was maple - apparently switching to harder ebony made all the difference.

One thing that's different about not having a dowel stick or coordinator rod is that there's nothing to hold the sponge in if you choose to use a sponge to damp the sound. I made a little stick that's about 1/8" thick - just enough for it to be bendable. This holds the sponge in, and can be removed easily if desired. Without the sponge it still sounds nice - just a bit louder and more tubular (for lack of a better word). I know the banjo overpowers my voice when I sing, so I left it in for the video.

Anyway, thanks for watching, and comments and suggestions are welcome!

Bisbonian - Posted - 04/09/2012:  07:40:25

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by oldtimefolkie



Do mountain banjos have the ~1-3 degree downward angle between the neck and the top of the pot like that of "regular" banjos?

Warren

---

 Traditional styles, no.  

The finger board is aligned with the same plane as the head and a lower height 1/2" bridge is used.  They would benefit from having a bit of back angle for a number of reasons, but it's not often seen in the Proffitt style mountain banjo, which is oft cited as the definitive design.

---

I shoot for a 1 degree neck angle on the ones I build.  I think it makes the action a bit easier to play, and unless you look closely, it looks like it is built in the traditional way.  It sure isn't easy with that neck-to-pot joint, though.  Tricky to get everything to mate up right.  It's a whole lot easier to cut all the angles at 90 degrees and just build it straight.

Bisbonian - Posted - 04/09/2012:  13:36:54

Rudy, I've been looking at your winebox banjo plans.  You're a genius.

That is all :)

rudy - Posted - 07/13/2012:  05:40:22

Hi All,

Since photos of mountain banjos are a primary way we pass along construction information and ideas I thought I would mention the Curt Bouterse has added many photos on his home page.  Please take a look and also visit his website.  His photo section here on the hangout is:

banjohangout.org/myhangout/pho...?id=18436

Coonskin - Posted - 07/14/2012:  12:38:29

I'm not sure if anyone knows this, but this is the coolest thread on the Hangout...just sayin'. :)

phil66 - Posted - 07/14/2012:  12:49:32

Rudy Thank you for post full size plans. this is going to save me from a lot of head aches when I get started building. I have read and re-read foxfire3 until the book just falls open to the chapter on Banjos.

Also tank you to all that has posted great advise along the way.

talk about information over load... thats where my head is at the moment. I am all ready building my first banjo it well have a wood top on it I got the ideal from Foxfire 3 M.C. Worley had talked about it and they showed plans. So I had to try it. My next one will be more like the one everyone else has built. The biggest problem I see having right now is I play a lot of different interments, some I never learned to play the banjo. What better way to learn than to build it then learn to play it.... OK I may just be Crazy.

rudy - Posted - 07/14/2012:  15:19:17

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coonskin



I'm not sure if anyone knows this, but this is the coolest thread on the Hangout...just sayin'. :)

---

 It's either the topic that keeps on giving or the topic that just won't die...

Coonskin - Posted - 07/15/2012:  13:52:56

quote:

---

Originally posted by rudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coonskin



I'm not sure if anyone knows this, but this is the coolest thread on the Hangout...just sayin'. :)

---

 It's either the topic that keeps on giving or the topic that just won't die...

---

Well, unlike other topics that just won't die,  this one is cool, and full of helpful stuff about banjos! 

Steve Jeter - Posted - 07/24/2012:  10:29:36

I hope it never dies! iT HAS INSPIRED AND INSTRUCTED ME. 00ps

MountainBanjo - Posted - 07/24/2012:  16:16:42

I'll take this all as a compliment, since so few come my way. You're welcome. :) And thank you to everyone who keeps the thread alive!

rudy - Posted - 07/24/2012:  19:07:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by MountainBanjo



I'll take this all as a compliment, since so few come my way. You're welcome. :) And thank you to everyone who keeps the thread alive!

---

 I recon as long as a few of us are still kickin' this topic ain't going to see the archives!

flatfootjohnny - Posted - 08/07/2012:  14:49:36

Ive just uploaded a couple of vids of my latest Mountain banjo... "Ill Fly Away" and "Poor Ellen Smith". The banjo is made from half piano and half wardrobe... 100% reclaimed timber.

Bisbonian - Posted - 08/07/2012:  15:15:48

Nice! Great sounding banjo, and you sing!  Still working on that, here...  I was impressed with that grain measure banjo, too.