Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/173153
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/11/2010: 09:25:55
No, this thread is not about me. 
I built myself a mountain banjo ala the Firefox book a few years ago but I have a tendency not to complete projects. My nut sucked, the action was ginormous, the violin pegs sucked (I didnt have proper tools so it wasnt their fault), and I never played it much. It just sat in the corner looking Appalachian. But recently I made a proper nut and had a pro fine tune it, which lowered the action nicely. I put on the guitar tuners off my old Goodtime, and I am amazed at how great this thing sounds and how easy it plays! I have barely put it down all week. Mine is mahogany neck and oak pot, with goat skin over 6" stove pipe. The entire thing cost me under $50, and it was not hard to make at all. I could probably build another in one day. It is imperfect as heck, but it is a player. I'm thinking of building another one, maybe with 8" stove pipe and trying some different woods, maple, cherry, walnut, birch.
So I thought I would start this thread to celebrate this cheap and easy and great sounding/playing banjo, and see what other people have done with this basic design, what sort of woods they have tried and settled on (or swore they'd never use again), and what sorts of mods they've made.
mojo_monk - Posted - 03/11/2010: 09:39:39
While not necessarily "mountain" banjos (although the Kiskeya word Ayiti means "land of mountains"), I built two gourd banjos for about $5.50 US while living in Haiti. I am now a budding banjo-building junkie with big plans for the coming summer...
Below is the link to a website chronicling (kind of) the construction of the first one.
seanbarth79.webs.com/
-Sean
Edited by - mojo_monk on 03/11/2010 09:45:18
Jim D - Posted - 03/11/2010: 09:42:22
Didn't build it myself, but I have a Stanley Hicks mountain banjo. Stanley's plans are those printed in Foxfire 3.
It's black walnut, made from a log that Stanley said he pulled out from under a railroad trestle where it had washed up. It has a good old time plunk and a decent volume so, the only thing I've changed was the bridge.
A friend has a nearly identical instrument, but his is made of butternut. It has a teeny bit more treble sound. And I've played another Hicks made of cherry.
I liked all three, but would rank them as 1. walnut, 2. cherry, 3. butternut.
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/11/2010: 09:50:13
Thats interesting how the rear plate has a smaller opening than the head...I made mine about the same size. I suppose that makes yours louder, huh? Thats a variation worth experimenting with right there...
Jim D - Posted - 03/11/2010: 10:02:22
quote:
Originally posted by MountainBanjo
Thats interesting how the rear plate has a smaller opening than the head...
Essentially an "internal resonator".
As pleased as I am with the instrument, the time spent on Stanley's porch while he played my banjo and told "Jack Tales" is among my fondest memories. (Yeah, that's my "dulcimore" he's holding.)
Edited by - Jim D on 03/11/2010 10:03:28
Viper - Posted - 03/11/2010: 12:21:58
quote:
Originally posted by MountainBanjo
I built myself a mountain banjo ala the Firefox book ...
Hey MountainBanjo, which Foxfire book has the mountain banjo plans? I've toyed with the idea of building one and have heard this source before. Is it Foxfire 3?
Jim D - Posted - 03/11/2010: 12:33:35
Foxfire 3... you can buy it used at Amazon.com for under $10 shipped.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/11/2010: 12:55:15
I've finished three of these, and have two more under construction. The first was black walnut, from a tree that fell down in my mother's yard. I did my first set of "fiddle" pegs for a gourd banjo, using a rat-tail file to taper the holes, and sanded the pegs to fit. They still work pretty well, but I got a reamer and a peg tapering tool from Stew-Mac, and they make the job much easier. Just finished a set of replacement pegs for a friend with a Stanley Hicks, banjo, in fact.
I tried something a little different with the soundhole on the back...I made a bunch of holes. Same effect as the smaller hole above, I believe, a sort of internal resonator. 
It's my main, daily player and travel banjo. Small, light weight, sturdy, and peaceful enough for hotel neighbors.
The second one I made a walnut pot, and a maple neck. Did give it a brighter tone...it has a 4 1/2 inch hole on the back, too, fairly large. The third has walnut for most of the pot and neck, but a 1/4 inch stripe of purpleheart up the middle, and a purpleheart fingerboard, center ring of the pot, and tailpiece. Kind of overdid it, but the woman I made it for really likes purple. This time I did a sort of flower pattern for the sound holes:
Currently building one just like my main player, and another, with a simpler purpleheart stripe in the neck.
Viper - Posted - 03/11/2010: 13:07:46
quote:
Originally posted by Jim D
Foxfire 3... you can buy it used at Amazon.com for under $10 shipped.
Thanks! I'll check 'em out on Amazon.
Bisbonian, those are beautifully done. My initial idea was to make a travel size mountain banjo for work-related hotel stays.
Cheers!
fordman24t - Posted - 03/11/2010: 13:17:46
In case the Foxfire book is not available, I found a web page where you can order plans and instructions for building a mountain banjo based on the Foxfire banjo. The plans show how to build a fretted as well as a fretless model. Also on the webpage is a link to a powerpoint slide show illustrating the steps for building one.
dwaynesthisandthat.org/mtnbanjoplans.htm
Stan
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/11/2010: 13:21:49
These are very travel friendly I think. I'm going to carry mine in the front seat on my next trip. One big plus- you can play them in your underwear and you dont have to worry about hooks gouging you. :-)
Thanks for the details and pics Bistonian! I'm gonna go look for some walnut tonight.
5stringpicker2 - Posted - 03/11/2010: 13:32:19
Sweet I think I'll monkey around with one myself and what happens.
(I )===='---<::)
teebee - Posted - 03/11/2010: 17:54:31
The signature picture here is my first mountain banjo made from Dennis Waring's book "Making Wood Folk Instruments". There's a brief description of it and a couple more pictures at tybarlow.com. I may build another with 5-long strings come summer.
My new fretted custom 5-long is at buzzardmountain.com/blog/categ...-Building
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/11/2010: 18:32:59
Thanks, Sultan, and thank you very much for introducing me to Tim Eriksen just now. Man, it's just incredible what he can do with one of these.
teebee, that five-long-string banjo is one beautiful instrument. I especially like the way he did the peghead, with the tuners all in an arc. I've been doing them in a straight line on scroll pegheads, and that looks so much better. Really love the fifth one up there, too. I am inspired anew. Every banjo on that page is a work of art.
Edited by - Bisbonian on 03/11/2010 18:39:37
niko penttinen - Posted - 03/11/2010: 20:36:30
great topic and beatiful looking banjos. if somebody makes a banjo that looks like the one jim d posted and wants to sell it to a good home, im just an email away.
I cant make things that refined on the account of currently being a cityslicker without a place to do crafts.
a family member from the sticks made a few banjos back in the 50s I believe. using a pigs bladder for the skin but they were thrown out because nobody played them and the guy who made them died. this was before I made it clear to my grandfolks that all found instruments are to be mine. im pretty sure they were tenors but I guess ill never find out.
rendesvous1840 - Posted - 03/11/2010: 21:49:42
I near wore out that Foxfire book, and the ones with flintlock rifles and dulcimers, too. One of these days I'll build the banjo. I've got a gourd for the pot.
Paul
Jim D - Posted - 03/12/2010: 05:40:57
quote:
Originally posted by niko penttinen
...using a pigs bladder for the skin...
Stanley used groundhog skins. I asked for a spare and he said he'd never seen anyone have to replace one. (He was in his 70s then.)
Here's are photos of my "spare" and of one of Stanley's letters regarding the project:
Edited by - Jim D on 03/12/2010 05:42:18
g-hog - Posted - 03/12/2010: 05:58:15
So cool! I would love to make a banjo some day... also would love to make a dulcimer and fiddle... guitars... no thanks... they just don't lend themselves to home-madey like the other instruments do.
I'm lousy with tools and working with wood, etc., although I've helped my husband with lots of bigger, construction-type projects, etc., still... I am no good with this stuff. Still... I sorta daydream about building my own instruments.
I saw the youtube where Charles Kuralt and then someone after him interviewed Violet Hensley, of someplace in the Ozarks... she was an elderly lady who plays and has made many fiddles... she had workshops in her kitchen at one point where she taught students to build fiddles... and I thought, gee, if she can do that, why can't I?
But fiddles are tough... yet I've heard of many old timers who made their own with no specialized tools.
Anyway... if you guys build a banjo or whatever... one that's easy and doesn't require special luthier tools or some special talent or experience with woodworking... it sure would be a neat thing to document the stages of that on youtube for us dummies that only dream... especially if it was done in such a way that there could be a possible monkey-see/monkey-do (the way I learn everything) quality about it. I'd be watching, for sure!
mojo_monk - Posted - 03/12/2010: 06:34:40
There are few things as gratifying as building an instrument with your own two hands. We're not talking fancy stuff here...find some plans, a ruler, a sharp saw, some files, throw caution to the wind, and jump right in. The first one might not turn out "perfect" but the second and third ones will be closer!
-Sean
Jim D - Posted - 03/12/2010: 09:07:21
Well done plan, Rudy. Thanks for allowing the download.
Here's a photo of the Hick's internal pot construction:
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/12/2010: 09:49:33
Rudy's plan is top notch, and his site is a wealth of information on instrument building with fairly simple tools. I've learned a ton of tricks from him. Jim D, I seem to have misplaced my Foxfire book in the last move..thanks for posting that page! I've taken to just tacking the head to the inside of the "hoop", like an inverse tackhead banjo.
g-hog - Posted - 03/12/2010: 10:06:08
As to the banjo heads...
... Doc Watson says his daddy made him one with the hide of their old family cat... then, people i knew in SE KY swore by groundhog skins... not necessarily for banjo (I don't think I heard anybody talking about building a banjo), but for shoestrings... they hide is supposedly so tough you make some shoe strings and keep 'em for the rest of your life... when you get new boots/shoes, you keep the old groundhog shoestrings.
Also... groundhogs are famous for their gravy. I heard old people talking about this... then, someone my own age tried cooking a groundhog once and then they all got sick... not sure what they did wrong...
People call me groundhog... so all this talk about hides and gravy gives me the heebies, for sure!
Jim D - Posted - 03/12/2010: 10:17:01
quote:
Originally posted by niko penttinen
if somebody makes a banjo that looks like the one jim d posted and wants to sell it to a good home, im just an email away.
Niko... here's a link to a fellow who makes Proffit/Hicks style banjos that
appear nearly identical to mine.
noteworthyjohn.com/mtnBanjo.htmDisclaimer... I don't know the man. I've never seen one of his instruments.
niko penttinen - Posted - 03/12/2010: 10:43:24
quote:
Originally posted by Jim D
Niko... here's a link to a fellow who makes Proffit/Hicks style banjos that appear nearly identical to mine.
noteworthyjohn.com/mtnBanjo.htm
Disclaimer... I don't know the man. I've never seen one of his instruments.
thanks, yeah I found that page too a while back when I was searching for alternative options for a "travel" banjo. but thats a bit pricy. handmade and all but if I look around I bet I can find a cheaper one.
this guy sells his fiddlers periodically and he has samples
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...26otn%3D2
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/12/2010: 11:58:29
It'samazing what people will pay money for. These really are easy to build. I had never built an instrument before, and this one is playable! You don't need perfection, you just need functionality. My headstock is lopsided. I drilled one of my peg holes crooked and had to plug it with a dowel and drill another. The guitar tuners are not mounted symmetrically. My pot is not perfectly round.
IT DOESNT MATTER! IT WORKS! The next one will be better, but if you dont build the first one you cant build a second one. You figure things out as you go along, you don't need a step by step video. If you have questions just ask.
My plans for a walnut version are temporarily thwarted. I priced walnut last night and it would cost $50 for the neck alone.
Cherry is no better. Will keep looking, I can get ash, maple and birch for next to nothing.
.
teebee - Posted - 03/12/2010: 14:50:05
I found poplar in several sizes and short lengths at Home Depot. It's cheap, tough, a soft hardwood, stable. My mountain banjo has been hanging here, tuned for 4-5 years and the neck is straight as ever. I would prefer walnut, but cheap availability wins when tinkering.
You give me the urge to build...as soon as the shed gets warmed up, maybe. I'ts been cold and snowed in for a while.
Dennis Ott - Posted - 03/12/2010: 21:35:06
Bisbonian-
I have to say those look great. Nice work.
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/13/2010: 08:49:14
How I made my neck, for those afraid they cant do this: I took 3 1"x4"x3' mahogany boards ($5 each at Menards). Before buying I made sure they were perfectly flat and flush on the short sides when pressed together. That is the fingerboard. Glued and clamped them together face to face. This made a board thick enough to cut the neck and headstock in one piece, so I didn't have to monkey with attaching a headstock separately. Likewise, I glued some short tabs on one end to make the peg head wider. I roughly traced the shape and head angle of one of my other banjo necks on one face, cut it out roughly with a $99 bandsaw, and shaped it the rest of the way with hand plane, rasp and sandpaper. Drilled holes for pegs and a neck was born. The pot is just a few circular pieces of wood, the front and back piece with tabs to screw into the neck where they overlap. I cut mine with a jigsaw. This was the hardest part because oak is tough! Then all you do is assemble them with the metal hoop and moistened skin head. Its really almost that simple. Mine doesn't look as good as some but I'll bet it sounds nearly as good. Part of that is deliberate-I like the rough look of folk objects, and the sometimes rough edges of folk music.
Edited by - MountainBanjo on 03/13/2010 08:50:58
Zsaba - Posted - 03/13/2010: 09:04:18
MountainBanjo,
How is the head assembly constructed and attached to the upper wood rim? ( am I being dull? )
have you and detailed pictures?
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/13/2010: 11:00:40
The head itself on mine is nothing more than a ~2" tall piece of 6" stovepipe, and the skin. You moisten the skin and drape it over the stovepipe, then position it. When you screw the back plate on it forces the stovepipe all the way into the pot and tightens the skin. There is no fine tuning of head tension but see the diagram from the first page that has a simple tensioning device. Gotta run quick, if this didnt answer the question try again...
The pot on mine is nothing but 3 piece of wood with holes in the middle. The middle piece is round and I mad emine by laminating two thinner pieces together. The front and back are as mentioned above, with tabs that fasten to the heel of the neck. I'll try to post pictures sometime but it will be later
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/14/2010: 15:48:49
Zsaba, there is a picture from the Foxfire book on the first page of this post, showing an exploded view of the internals. Actually, the book showed at least three methods, if I remember correctly...one way is to sew the skin to a ring made of coathanger or something, which is larger than the hole in the top of the banjo, Then the stovepipe segment forces the skin up flush with the banjo top, stertching the skin, and trapping the ring. Another way was to use a wooden ring, and tack the skin to that. I've been making my own stovepipe segments from harware store aluminum bar, riveted into a ring, and just tacking the skin inside the. But the latest iteration is to make a wooden ring as tall (1 1/2") as the stovepipe segment would have been, tack the skin to the underside of the rim, and use the wooden ring to stretch the skin into place. Working on two today..here is one:
The wooden tone ring is purpleheart, so it should show up well in the photo. No skin yet.
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/16/2010: 07:30:02
Here is an illustration from Firefox that shows how simple these are. Consult the book
for measurements and details.
Steve Jeter - Posted - 03/16/2010: 07:48:24
If any of you guys ever build one to sell,, I might be interested , if I can afford it. I dont think I understand banjo enough to try a build. But this would go great with my re-enacting
Steve
Viper - Posted - 03/16/2010: 11:30:27
Whoops ... I just ordered Foxfire 3 at Amazon. What have I done?
Steve Jeter - Posted - 03/16/2010: 11:36:26
quote:
Originally posted by Viper
Whoops ... I just ordered Foxfire 3 at Amazon. What have I done?
you just became a banjo maker,, if you wernt one already
Il l donate my time as a tester
Steve
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/16/2010: 18:23:12
What thickness do you guys make yours? I made my first one with a 1.5 inch thick pot and 1/2 inch front and back. I only have enough wood to make this pot 15/16ths thick. I was going to double it up then plane it to 1.5 but cant do that now. I wonder if I'll lose much sound leaving it under and inch. Looks like that is still a bit thicker than Stanley Hicks used though, but I do want as much tone and volume as I can get.
I could make up for that depth by making my front 15/16 also (my stock is that thickness), but I'm not confident in my ability to cut the neck tab down to 1/2 " accurately and that fit needs to be good.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/16/2010: 18:32:32
MB, pretty much all the ones I have seen (and consequently, the ones I make) are right about 2 inches thick overall. The current crop has 1/2" top and bottom plates, and 1" center ring. Typical 1x lumber works fine, too...comes in at 3/4" thick, so if you do each layer that thick, it's 2 1/4" thick overall...minus whatever you sand off of it.
Sultans of Claw - Posted - 03/16/2010: 19:17:11
Okay, I'm not afraid to ask a stupid question, but something I've been wondering about is whether or not your tops and backs on these mountain banjos are one or glued-up pieces?
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/16/2010: 19:36:13
Not stupid at all. If you can find decent 10" wide hardwood you can do them one piece. But for most people that's going to be either expensive or hard to find, except in oak which should be easy to find. I used laminated oak shelving for my first and only one. As I type, I am waiting for the glue to dry on two 10" long 7" wide yellow birch boards that will be my top. My pot and back will be done the same. Hope it works, and it should. I've got them weighted to keep them flat while nylon straps (my kayak tie-downs) tighten them together.
Sultans of Claw - Posted - 03/16/2010: 19:51:58
Good to hear. I've got some Iroko deck boards that I salvaged a while back and ever since then I've been trying to figure out if I could somehow cobble a few of them together into a mountain banjo maybe.
rudy - Posted - 03/16/2010: 20:07:20
My design is a bit different with a 2-3/4" depth:
I'm finishing up one of these that's going in the classifieds when done.
rendesvous1840 - Posted - 03/16/2010: 20:52:35
foxfire.org/foxfire3.aspx
Here's a link to buy Foxfire 3 if anyone is interested. The plans above may be better to work from,but this is the article that started so many people thinking of building their own. It also has an article on building dulcimers.
Both my dulcimers were kits, which I assembled and finished. That may be the best way to start, then go on to a more homemade project. Search the net for banjo building sites, theres a lot of them. For dulcimers there probably are too, but I never looked. My first was built in 1990, before we had a computer. The second was in 1997. I think we had a 'puter by then, but I don't recall if I searched for anything. It was a number of years before my wife got me to use it.
The first kit was from Wildwood Music, in Coshocton, Ohio. They're still one of the best music stores I know of. The second was a bass dulcimer kit from Randy Rich, in Colorado. I don't know if he's still around.
Paul
MountainBanjo - Posted - 03/18/2010: 13:39:41
I just noticed something. On my first banjo the pot is flush with the outer edges of the front and back all the way around, and the neck meets it there at the base of the tabs. But Plate 173 shows the pot being smaller in diameter than the top/back, so the neck actually inserts between the top and back, as well as their tabs. They dont give a measurement for the insertion length, but it probably doesn't matter much. I am mostly wondering if you other builders are doing it that way, with the pot smaller than top/back and the neck inserted between them.
Solo - Posted - 03/19/2010: 02:58:34
Great thread.
I've been thinking of making one of these for years and finally taking the plunge, inspired by this thread. I'm purchasing walnut for the top and back from the local hardwood man, and having it milled down to 1/2". These will be 11", and I'll make the inner pot 10", probably out of poplar, giving it a half inch inset. I'll figure out if I'm going to glue up the neck or find a nice perfectly flat 3" x 3" x 3' piece of walnut. I'm thinking of a wider neck, 1 3/8 at the nut and 2" at the pot. Not having a band saw, I'll hope to pay the hardwood man to make the two angled headstock cuts. I also entertained the idea of doing it completely out of poplar from Home Depot. They even had 6" inch x 1/2", but it would have to be glued. This would cost next to nothing. Elderly sells "good" violin pegs for $2.00 each.
One question. Has anyone angled the neck at 2 or 3 degrees where it meets the pot assembly? It looks like the Firefox/Stanley Hicks banjos are completely straight and flat, and that string pressure on the bridge is just fine.
Ok, another question. Did anyone make templates for shaping the neck? How thin do you think you could go for a neck without reinforcement? Did you make your necks thick and clubby for strength?
Now for my groundhog.
rudy - Posted - 03/19/2010: 04:59:10
Solo,
I angle my neck heel. It's not commonly seen on mountain banjo because of the simplified design of the Proffitt-style instrument. It's not necessary to angle the neck, like Mountainbanjo says, it works anyhow. The action at the upper area of the finger board is usually pretty high on the non-angled neck. I play up there all the time, so that's whey I angle the neck. This gets the strings down to a playable level.
No need for neck reenforcement on the low tuned nylon strung mountain banjo. You normally won't be tuning it up to standard pitch with standard violin pegs, so there isn't much tension on the neck anyhow.
You can find neck templates on my free PDF plan here:
bluestemstrings.com/pageFPMB1.html
Edited by - rudy on 03/19/2010 05:09:24
Solo - Posted - 03/19/2010: 08:39:33
Rudy, your pdf plan is absolutely brilliant, as is your site in general. It's one of those beacons of light shining on the web, and I have it marked as a favorite.
The neck angle was something which puzzled me as I read through Firefox 3 several times. It was only mentioned under the designs of Dave Pickett. I rarely spend time above the 10th fret and intend to use steel strings, although I'll try some nylons too. I think I'll try putting in a 2 degree angle. Thanks. I also like the look of your low slung tail piece. This with a tight head should maximize volume and sound.
I also enjoy those templates you have for shaping the neck. I was wondering about slimming down the neck, but will probably honor the proffitt design tradition and insure that I don't wind up with a belly in the neck in years to come.
Bisbonian - Posted - 03/19/2010: 09:06:21
Solo, traditionally, these banjos are pretty flat, with no neck angle...as opposed to 2 to 3 degrees for a more modern banjo. To my eye, a three degree angle would look out of place, but having some angle does help playabiity, so I build mine with a one degree neck angle. It's pretty subtle; almost invisible. I also build the necks fairly thick. The one (walnut neck) that I made thinner now bends under string tension. If I release the tension, it goes back to straight in a couple days, but then bends again the next time I tighten up the strings.
Rudy's plans, and website, are outstanding, and continue to be a great source of information and inspiration for me.
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
